Smith vs Carleton College

College Search & Selection
, ,
1

hi everybody! so after committing to Smith College last monday, I just got a call from Carleton that I’m off the waitlist and I don’t know what to do! I love both schools and am genuinely 50/50 right now

I have until May 8 to respond. Anything you can tell me helps! Cost is the same at both schools.

A little background on me: Intended major is math on an academia route. I’d consider a minor in English. I love reading (mostly classics) and am very stereotypically nerdy. Did robotics (FRC) for all 4 years of high school, and have been one of 2 girls on a basically 40 person team for all that time. I’m introverted, but I don’t have that hard of a time making friends if I exert myself. I like more quiet, academic atmospheres and pretty campuses. I think I can see myself at either school!

Smith Pros

  • New England location–I’ve heard that you tend to stay around the area that you graduate in and I can’t really see myself living in Minnesota all my life. New England, from what I know about it, seems more my vibe

  • Open curriculum - LOVE this, really enjoy that kind of freedom in picking my schedule

  • Women’s college. Since I plan on taking a stem major, it’s really important to me I get to be around other women interested in science and math, and I’m used to a sort of boys-club environment that almost pushed me out of math

  • Fun traditions, like house teas

  • Vibes were really cozy. Students seemed close, and the housing looked like it helped a lot with that

  • Really good alumni network, from what I’ve heard

  • Big endowment

  • 12-college exchange program (I might like to spend a year at Bowdoin)

  • Good size: 3,000 students

  • Parts of Northhampton were really cute

  • Has engineering as a possible major

  • LOVED the library

  • College guarantees to pay for an internship

  • Talked to a math professor and he said it was really easy to get research; all the students agreed on that

  • Really liked the math class I sat in on. I took Calc III last semester and it went by so slowly; the same amount of time passed in the Smith Calc III class passed and it felt like nothing! The professor was so fun to listen to

Smith Cons

  • Very liberal. I’m a democrat, but the college and surrounding town (mostly the town) felt so political that it made me uncomfortable. It didn’t seem like the sort of politics that was open to debate. Just very, very left wing.

  • On the same lines, some of the students were VERY political. I don’t mind politics i just don’t want to be in that sort of environment ALL the time

  • Northhampton didn’t feel safe to me, I’m not sure how often I’d go out

  • Lots of marijuana shops and people smoking… seemed like there was a drug problem

  • Felt like the college took better care of the STRIDE (merit scholarship) students than the regular ones, and I felt left out about it

  • Weirdly segregated… it was like all the students kept to their own race

  • At least half of the Calc III class I visited didn’t seem like they were paying attention

  • Had a semi-bad visit. I was overwhelmed more than comfortable, and while I could see myself eventually settling in there, it didn’t have that mystical this is it feeling that I’ve heard so much about

Carleton Pros

  • From what I can tell, Carleton’s math and science programs are stronger. 1st among all US LACs in phds per capita in the sciences according to their website, which aligns well with what I want to do

  • Carleton has a higher percentage of STEM majors than Smith. I was the only prospie I met planning to major in math over the entire admitted students weekend, which sort of sucked

  • I’ve heard everyone at Carleton is really friendly and laid back

  • More of an academic atmosphere, which I think I’d fit in really well with

  • Just looking through the class of 2027 instagram page, I feel like I would vibe better with the people I see on it

  • A lot less political

  • Rated really highly (#1) for undergraduate teaching

  • I hate to say it but it seems like Carleton is more prestigious, and better known for grad schools. Maybe better known in general. Is the gap so close that it doesn’t matter?

  • I might end up liking the distribution requirements

Carleton Cons

  • Not the college’s fault, but I never got the chance to visit so I have no idea what the atmosphere is like and I’d be going in blind

  • Looks like there are distribution requirements, and personally I really want to have some freedom in my courses. If any current student could weigh in on this, it would be really helpful!

  • Requires 4 terms of physical education…

  • REALLY cold and I’m very sensitive to cold. It’s not a dealbreaker but yk

  • Really far away from my friends and home

  • Trimester system seems like it adds stress

  • Grade deflation?

  • All the math majors I saw on the instagram page were men, and I really don’t want to be the only girl in my classes for another 4 years

  • According to their website, 46% of students are involved in mentored research, which seems kind of small. I don’t know the percentage at Smith though

  • Campus looks a bit underwhleming

Anyway, I have like 4 days to decide, so please weigh in wherever you can! Everything helps

2 Likes
2

Have you gone through the faculty rosters, course catalogs, and schedules to see how well represented the various math subareas are represented at each math department?

Both colleges have cross registration with other colleges, though Smith probably has an advantage here, due to academic calendar synchronization with the other colleges, which includes a larger research university where graduate level math courses exist.

If you choose to or must (at Carleton) take a foreign language, note that math PhD programs commonly want students to have a reading knowledge of French, German, or Russian to read math research papers written in those languages.

3 Likes
3

I know nothing about Smith but I can address a few Carleton issues:

  1. People from Carleton come from all over and end up all over. An older Carleton alum was instrumental in helping me get a job in the Pacific Northwest after I earned an advanced degree.

  2. Trimesters can provide great opportunities to fit in study abroad and take more classes. Sometimes getting through a class more quickly can be a blessing and actually reduce stress. If you are reasonably organized, I don’t think this is s big con.

  3. I thought campus was lovely. Northfield is charming and safe. And, while it does get cold, I will always remember the breathtakingly beautiful sight of ice crystals raining down from snowy tree branches against a bright blue sky in the warming morning sunlight. There is a pretty arboretum, a lake, a river winding through town that is great to see by canoe, and attractive buildings.

It’s been a lot of years for me, but I think the typical Carleton student remains unpretentious, intellectually curious, welcoming, and thoughtful.

I am sure Smith alums are equally fond of their alma mater. You have two great choices.

4 Likes
4

My daughter is a freshman at Carleton. I think I mentioned this in a different thread, but what’s astounding to me is that every single teacher she’s had this year has been superb. All nine of them. (And she hasn’t even had any of the well-know, talked-about “great teachers.”) The level of teaching excellence is for real.

She is friends with a fair number of sophomore and junior women, almost all of whom are majoring in STEM – several chem majors, a math major, a couple of stats/CS majors, etc. And there seem to be plenty of female faculty in STEM departments too, if that matters to you.

The distribution requirements are a breeze to complete, especially since you probably won’t mind taking a lab science. My daughter has fulfilled all but one of the distributions reqs during her first year and she hasn’t even really worked at it.

She studies a lot. Like a lot. But, by her report, it’s very collaborative and even kinda fun – lots of group studying in the bio/geo/chem rooms, lots of large groups of students meeting with student TAs to go over problem sets, etc.

Happy to answer any other questions. Carleton has been a terrific place so far for my daughter!

7 Likes
5

I think your not wanting to be the only woman in your math classes is the dealbreaker. Smith.

1 Like
6

When I read your pros and cons, it reads Smith.

But a few things -

  1. You say I hear a lot. Hearing and seeing are two different things. For example, you can go anywhere from any school. So I’d disagree you’ll necessarily spend your early years or all your years near your college - unless you want to.

  2. There’s weed in society and drugs will have a presence on many campuses. And not just weed.

  3. I think politics are out there if you want, but not if you don’t.

  4. The engineering possibility is huge. If you need it.

Just because you got off a WL doesn’t mean you have to consider it.

Perhaps both would be great for you. But reading your write up, your pros for smith are great and I’m not sure your cons are accurate.

No matter which you choose you win.

Best of luck.

1 Like
7

I wonder if Carleton might not be the better choice given that you didn’t feel that comfortable at Smith when you visited. It may be just a bit less edgy. It’s tough on such short notice to visit, but can you connect with some current students at Carleton to get some perspective on student life?

With that said, you will likely find your tribe at either and be happy. You can’t make a bad choice.

Try mapping out 4 years, course catalog in hand, taking into account distribution and departmental requirements. If you want to go abroad, etc, see how that fits as well. They may not differ much, or they may in a way that produces a strong leader.

2 Likes
8

I know a Smith freshman. She is very happy there. She is a student of color in a PWI but she has made many friends. She is an athlete and I do not believe into drugs. She chose Smith over other fine colleges. I actually think Smith is more prestigious than Carleton, at least on the East coast. Good luck with your decision.

9

@Abigail_Anton

If this screen name is your real name, I would suggest you change it. Send an email to this email…with your current screen name and what you would like it changed to…

admin@collegeconfidential.com

1 Like
10

As others have said, you have two great choices - congrats!

My D recently considered both schools, but she was focused on Social Science and Humanities, so she wasn’t focused on all the same factors as you are.

Also, we visited Smith twice but never got a chance to get to Carleton so I don’t have a lot to add about Carleton except that I’d agree with the comment above that trimesters have their pros as well as their cons. I attended a school with trimesters, and my D has also decided on one. As my D is loosely planning her upcoming 4 years, she is excited by the fact that this will make study abroad easier (you are only missing 1/3 of the year on campus instead of 1/2) and by the fact that she will take 36 classes rather than the 32 at most LACs. Also because of this different schedule, I think Carleton runs a number of their own study abroad programs rather than doing them all through partners.

We didn’t get to make it to Smith Open Campus due to conflicting April college visits, but I’m curious about your sense that Smith cared more about their STRIDE scholars - my guess would be that this was a part of the Admitted Student yield strategy and not as much something that will affect you once on campus? My D was originally very excited about her STRIDE offer but then deprioritized it, feeling that she could get research opportunities at any of her top schools if wanted…and not sure yet if she actually wanted.

I think you’re right that Smith has the more political vibe (and I wonder if that is actually correlated with it being a women’s college - my D considered several and loved the idea of attending one…she does happen to fit well with the politically engaged cohort, though).

We found lots to like in Northampton, but my D did feel she’d be most likely to venture there with friends rather than on her own as you’ve alluded to.

Carleton has the Cookie House! Also Carleton has Comps - have you looked at what that involves? You may love it. You may not.

In terms of the PE requirement you mentioned at Carleton, do they have some fun choices? Several of my D’s top choices had a similar requirement. At some the PE choices were pretty standard, but at others you could do, for example, a hip hop dance class or skiing lessons to fulfill the requirement. It might end of being a good stress reliever!

No bad choices here, but tough to decide when you can’t visit Carleton.

3 Likes
11

A couple thoughts.

Smith is very very liberal and very political. If you are a middle of the road type person or even only slightly liberal you may feel uncomfortable. Don’t discount this.

If you are going into academia in math you are going to be surrounded by men. There is no getting away from this. If you go to Smith you will get four years with women in your math classes, but once you graduate and go one to graduate school you will be back into a male dominated world. As a woman who has worked in a male dominated field, it is manageable. Acting confident goes a long way. Walk in like you own the place. Many men will back down in the presence of a strong confident woman. Don’t let them talk over you or intimidate you. You are going to need to learn how to navigate this world eventually. I would not choose Smith because of this.

5 Likes
12

Congratulations! It is a great dilemma to have. I am not going to offer any strong advice, just observations from my personal perspective.

  1. Northampton. Was only there for an afternoon, but it seems like a pretty upscale town with a ton of restaurants. It is not “curated” so that lower income residents are kept away, so there were some scruffier individuals there. Kind of like the Upper East Side or Chapel Hill, NC. Seriously most places do not get better than this unless the college is in a complete bubble. I have read similar concerns about the nice town of Middletown where Wesleyan sits, which are also overblown, in my opinion. Other kids willingly go to college in horrible places like Cambridge or Berkeley. On the other hand, if you want a certain kind of college experience with zero friction from the real world, that is legitimate. You’re hopefully only going to college once!

  2. It is true that Carleton is the number one school in the country (not just LAC, but number one school) in terms of PhD production in several fields. This is a big draw and could be a deciding factor. Northfield is very safe, cute, and “curated” in the sense above. There are like 3 Asian restaurants in the town only. Being isolated and bored might be a concern.

  3. I wouldn’t worry much about the condition of the buildings/campus architecture. Both schools are very nice, and this won’t affect your actual experience that much.

  4. Women’s college environment is a big deal and unique thing, so if you lean to that, only Smith can offer it.

I told my kid to flip a coin about his choices. If the side that comes up induces a twinge of regret or desire to flip again, that is a sign to you of where your true feelings lie.

3 Likes
13

Both are good choices. Carleton might have a slight edge when it comes to the number of Math majors and advanced math courses. However you can also take advanced or graduate level math courses at UMass (or the rest of the five college consortium) if you go to Smith.

14

I can’t comment in Smith or Carleton, but I hope I can offer you this:

If there are weed shops in a college town, it’s more a sign of the local politics in the town than reflective of national politics like being liberal or conservative.

I wouldn’t let local politics decide which college you attend. It sounds like you like both of them and have done enough research. Go with the one where you see yourself being happy most of the time. That might sound silly, but when you have to make a big decision, that’s usually what it comes down to when it’s all said and done. Good luck!

3 Likes
15

My daughter is a first year at /smith and has had an amazing experience. She is a government major but many of her friends are engineering, math and other STEM-related scholars. My daughter also has a pretty diverse friend group; she has not experienced the segregation you observed.

STRIDE scholars do have unique access to research opportunities in their first two years, but those opportunities can also be established for motivated students not part of the program. I don’t think anyone on campus views STRIDE scholars as superior to other students.

The open curriculum is an incredible opportunity to pursue the classes that you are about the most, from a broad range of offerings.

The big endowment funds initiatives like a paid internship for every student at least once during their time at Smith. My daughter will be in DC working for a Congresswoman, partially funded by Smith, for whole summer this year.

The Seven Sisters alumna network is incredible. I am a Wellesley alumna, and I can’t tell you how amazing it is to be tapped into a global network of incredibly accomplished women.

The housing system at Smith is really cool and each house has its own vibe, and tight-knit community.

There are dispensaries in Northampton, but that is not unique to the town. There are also dispensaries down the road in Amherst, and all over MA.

8 Likes
16

Both are great schools.

I would suggest you think back on why you accepted the waitlist offer from Carleton. Surely there was a good reason.

1 Like
17

In terms of your listed concerns, these are ones I would NOT worry about:

  1. That you will end up in Minnesota. You won’t unless you decide you want to. Students come from all over, and go to all over.
  2. The weather. It’s easier to adjust than you think. It’s an adventure! My roommate was from California and she adjusted.
  3. The distribution requirements. They are not onerous. It is not a strict core; you have a lot of choice. I was a STEM student, and fulfilled mine without even trying, just by taking what I wanted to take.
  4. The Phys Ed requirements. SUPER fun! Ice skating, cross country skiing, yoga, ballroom dance, ballet, swimming, hip hop dance, weight lifting, lifeguard training–the list goes on! I pretty much hated PE in high school, but took like 12 PE classes at Carleton because they were so fun.
  5. Trimesters. In my opinion, it’s easier to keep track of 3 classes than 4. Did not feel too intense at all.
5 Likes
18

I agree with this, for some they might feel politics is too much in their face at Smith, too much of the time. And that won’t change.

OP does have hesitations about the political scene at Smith, based on the below statement, and I also wouldn’t discount these feelings.

5 Likes
19

Very few people actually experience that. Use your head and your heart to decide, not a myth.

Northampton is safe. Marijuana is legal in a lot of states now. Any college area where it’s legal is going to have dispensaries. Kids at almost all colleges smoke pot. Doesn’t matter if it’s Carleton or Smith.

I’m not sure why there suddenly seem to be a few students saying things about never leaving the area where they attend college. That’s just untrue, full stop. Carleton will have a long break over the winter and it’s also going to be very cold in Mass, so I wouldn’t use that as a factor.

I think you need to consider what might be perceived as a big negative at Carleton, which is the trimester system. It’s quite intense and you need to hit the ground running. OTOH, some people are very motivated by that.

To me, it seems that Smith gets the edge, based on what you say. I’m wondering if you are considering Carleton due to perceived prestige. It’s hard to disregard the open curriculum at Smith.

That nearly half of Carleton students are involved in mentored research is very impressive. I don’t know about Smith’s numbers, but finding research opportunities won’t be difficult.

2 Likes
20

Two fine schools!

Is there any possible way you can visit Carleton? My experience is that each LAC has a particular vibe so seeing the school firsthand is so helpful in determining fit.

2 Likes