Classic case of “the devil you know” versus “the devil you don’t know.”
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Do you know where you want to study abroad? Each of these schools has programs that they run themselves, in addition to outside programs that students can enroll in. IMHO, the self-run programs are preferable. (For example, my friend whose daughter went to Paris with a Carleton program had a host family who had been hosting Carleton students for many years - she slept in a bedroom festooned with photos of their past Carleton students! Carleton has been cultivating these kind of personal relationships for years. Plus, they bring their own faculty mentors along. A lot of larger-volume programs place students in host families that are only taking them for the money, and slam students into classes at local U’s that aren’t necessarily all that welcoming or accommodating.) I’d compare the in-house programs at Smith Smith Programs Abroad | Smith College with those at Carleton https://www.carleton.edu/ocs/programs/carleton/ and see if you have a preference on this front.
It’s true that both schools are liberal - Paul Wellstone was a Carleton prof - but I do think that political activism is more inescapable at Smith, whereas Carleton is more of a bubble where students are immersed in their own passions, which are apolitical for many students.
If you want grad school, I wouldn’t look at comps as a stressful negative, but rather a stepping stone to graduate studies. I also wouldn’t worry about the staying-local issue. I have family members who went to both schools - neither lives near their school and both have college friends all over. I think staying local is more of a thing when you attend college in a major metro area, and even then it’s still a choice.
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It looks like most Carleton courses are 6 credits each, and the normal course load is 3 courses or 18 credits per quarter (12 credits is the minimum for full time). I.e. 9 courses for 54 credits per year, and each 6 credit course is probably comparable to a 4 credit course at a semester school in volume of material covered. 210 credits are needed to graduate, so 3 courses per trimester would be needed to graduate in 4 academic years.
I don’t think you are reading Smith wrong. My daughter had the same thoughts as you on the Con list, and she probably would have put some of the Pros into the Con list. TBH, she was very young when looking (16, and not 17 until later in Senior year). She didn’t like all the questions (“what are your pronouns?” “Are you sure you aren’t gay?” “would you explore your sexuality?”) She felt attacked. Many of the things about Smith that make it unique were just not for her, like internships in DC, guest speakers, the consortium. She was a science and math kid first and last, and didn’t care about the political opportunities. She did like the a capella groups, the athletic building, and a few activities she did on her weekend visit. She did not like the ‘open’ dorms, that a roommate could have a visitor without limit (like a boyfriend or girlfriend staying for a week or a month and no one would toss that visitor out). As I said, she was very young when starting college.
My other daughter would have loved Smith. I didn’t really care for Northhampton but loved Amherst , loved the consortium, but I probably would have preferred UMass for my school.
You have to decide what you like.
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Our very liberal daughter loved Carleton and did not care for Smith. Carleton campus is so pretty and the little town of Northfield just felt cozy. We were surprised, as she seems like the ideal Smith student on paper. Some of her turn offs were the “slutty themed convocation” and a few other traditional events that just didn’t fit for her. She felt it seemed forced - I do not have an opinion one way or the other. She did feel like she would like the classes, but also thought maybe it was not going to be diverse in thought and she wanted a more balanced student population. She has 2 good friends at Smith and a cousin - they are thriving. She ended up ED’ing to a school that seemed like a blend of both of these schools and is very happy.
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One downside of Carleton’s study abroad is that it is only for the 10-week trimester vs. a 16-week semester.
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I didn’t consider it a downside. I studied abroad in the fall. Many people took advantage of the long winter break to travel further on their own after the “official” program ended. But every term is adjacent to a long break (before or after) for those who want to tag on some independent travel.
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I can’t speak to Carleton, except to say a friend of mine went there and loved it.
My open statement of bias: I am a New Englander, through and through. I am also usually the most liberal person in the room. Your concerns about Smith being too liberal might be valid, but I’m not the one to address those concerns.
I have a hard time seeing Northampton as anything other than a plus. Northampton is my favorite small city in the world. Lots of great restaurants and arts, and the music scene is fantastic. Free busses to and from Amherst, too. Any time you are on a college campus or a metropolitan area you need to keep your heads up, but Northampton seems pretty safe to me.
As for academics: be careful when you look at courses in the catalogs. Its not what is on the books, its what is offered. Many schools have courses on the books that haven’t been taught for a decade. I’m not sure how that plays out at either Carelton or Smith, but know that the course catalog does not necessarily equate to course offerings that you will be able to take.
If you are interested in PhD afterward, access to advanced courses at UMass might be a plus for Smith.
I think you are choosing between two very special places. Congratulations. There doesnt seem to be a bad choice here.
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My daughter does know a fair number of graduating seniors from her sports team and none of them ever mentioned the stress of comps to her.
I can say that the exam situation has been totally manageable – most of her final exams have been self-scheduled and not every class has had a final. The trimester system is fast paced, for sure, but she has liked having an “extra” class (nine instead of eight) so that she could branch out and try something new.
I disagree about the importance of visiting a college before committing. On paper, Boston College, BU and Northeastern are all Boston colleges. But my S did not like the campus and students at one and liked the other two. Other CC posters talk about loving that college after visiting it and finding that campus beautiful. There are some things you can’t learn without being there. College is a big and costly decision. I would really recommend taking a quick trip.
Again, OP stated clearly that there is no time. I didn’t say it’s not important. I said it doesn’t need to be the decisive factor.
No idea where this student lives. Visiting is a luxury many can’t afford or there could be circumstances beyond her control that prevent a visit.
Regardless, OP can decide how much of a risk taker she is. The devil she knows or the devil she doesn’t know. She can know both pretty well by using available resources.
To OP, my kid stayed on the Carleton campus for three weeks and loved it. She thought the town was cute. St. Olaf is there too, so some friendly rivalry. It’s not far to Minneapolis. There are plenty of flights from that airport. If you’re leaning towards Carleton, I wouldn’t worry about isolation.
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I don’t know about Carleton…but I can comment about trimesters.
My engineering kid went to a college on quarters. Each quarter is about 10 weeks long. She was an engineering major, and while in the minority, there were other women. Anyway…regarding trimesters…my kid really liked them. Yes, you had to keep up with the work or it was very easy to fall behind in a way that couldn’t easily be recovered. But the plus side was…the variety of instructors she had, and the quickness with which each “term” was completed.
Some students actually like trimesters and quarters better than semesters.
Back in the Stone Age, I went to a semester college for one year, and then transferred to a quarter college. I loved those quarters compared to semesters.
Colleges are trying to balance their student genders in college enrollments. I’m going to guess that there will be other women in your engineering classes regardless of where you go to college. You won’t be the only one.
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Again, I would make the time for such an important decision. It is important to listen as well as speak.
Many colleges cost more than I paid for my house so I would view a visit as an investment in the student’s future and I would hope that Carleton would give an extension of a few days if needed. I would also recommend connecting via private message with the above current student who wants to transfer.
Interesting. I did a single trimester while I was doing my degree. I was in the CSU system and had taken time off to travel. When I returned, I did a trimester at CSUDH before starting the fall semester back at CSULB.
I personally really disliked the trimester. I found it stressful, but mostly I found that everything was very rushed and that I never got a sense of what the course was about. It seemed that we just skimmed the surface of the subject. I didn’t do well on one test and felt like I was frantically trying to catch up the whole time to salvage the grade.
Different strokes.
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Not sure a single trimester is how one should judge this system. It does take some getting used to. But I never felt rushed. In a year long course on the quarter system…the work was divided into thirds, not in half.
But then…YMMV depending on who you are.
Remember…everyone at the college will be on trimesters…not just you.
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Yep, one trimester was enough for me😆
@Abigail_Anton a couple of things…
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If this screen name is your real name, I would again urge you to change it. Directions are upstream in this thread.
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Carleton is a liberal arts type college. It is not a tech school (example RIT or the like). My opinion is…you will see students of multiple genders in your engineering and math and science classes. You won’t be the only one. If this is a real concern…ask someone at Carleton about this.
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Actually and we don’t know - she might be planning a visit this weekend. Not sure if she followed through on this though. She’d have to ask both of course.
OP, if you’re still reading, please consider this:
Typically, when AO’s reach out with offers from WL, they give the applicant a few days to decide. I suspect asking for an additional week may not lead to a good outcome.
Why? Because they want to fill that class as soon as possible. They might have other students they are eager to offer a spot to. They know that other colleges are making WL offers to students, that students are giving up spots at other colleges, that summer melt is a thing. You delaying making a decision is not in the college’s best interest.
You can ask, of course, but if they say no, please do not feel that the only way you can decide is by visiting.
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For several reasons, I do not think that ultimate PhD production should represent an important component of college selection, even for students who anticipate seeking PhDs themselves.
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