<p>Hazmat-</p>
<p>As an enlisted personnel, time at rank is needed, then you test for the next level.</p>
<p>As an officer, yes, education will increase your chances for promotion, along with military education (yes, they are sent to school for increased military education). Sometimes, your ranking officer looks at how you were commissioned (ROTC, SA, OTS/OCS), sometimes, they don't.</p>
<p>"But if you want the "mother of all sites" look at Hanford Washington. Not a military site per se, but I don't know who else used plutonium than the military!"</p>
<p>Or drive a bit farther south into eastern oregon, where you'll find our chemical weapons bunkers. I think it's outside utmatila where we have the site where they burn up our chemical rounds.</p>
<p>Many people have become quite successful after serving as an enlisted person. For example, Dartmouth's president, James Wright, spent three years as a Marine before enrolling in college. He has used his experiences to reach out to veterans to help them find opportunities following their service. </p>
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When he first met James Wright, the president of Dartmouth College, two years ago, Samuel Crist was in a hospital bed at the National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland, recuperating from gunshot wounds from a firefight in Falluja, Iraq.</p>
<p>"I was pretty heavily medicated, so my memory is a little bit foggy, but he was visiting people and asking about their experiences in the war and pushing people to get an education," said Crist, 22, who grew up in Lafayette, Louisiana. "He said he'd been a marine, too, and he'd gone to college after he got out as a lance corporal, the same rank I separated at."</p>
<p>That hospital visit changed things for Crist and Wright: On Wright's advice, Crist enrolled in college courses in Texas, and next autumn he will transfer to Dartmouth.</p>
<p>Wright, 67, meanwhile, has made eight more visits to wounded veterans at Bethesda and at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington and, with the American Council on Education, started a program to provide individualized college counseling to seriously wounded veterans.</p>
<p>In a way, Wright's quest has been a return to his roots. Growing up in Galena, Illinois, he joined the Marines to put off, at least for a few years, going to work in the zinc mines that employed many in his community, including his grandfather. In that time and place, college was not for everyone. None of Wright's grandparents finished high school, and Wright's father, a bartender who served in the military, attended only one semester of college.</p>
<p>When he left the Marines, Wright enrolled at a state university in Wisconsin, thinking that he wanted to be a high school history teacher. Instead, he obtained a doctorate degree in history and started teaching at Dartmouth, where, since 1969, he has worked his way from professor to dean of faculty to provost and, in 1998, to president.
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"They both want to study Arabic," he said. "They're not likely to be the regular run-around-the-bonfire freshmen. It's going to be a different culture for them, but this is a very open, egalitarian campus, and I think it will be a good for them and for Dartmouth."
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For example, Dartmouth's president, James Wright, spent three years as a Marine before enrolling in college.
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<p>I guess SJmom2329 may not be aware that the military has changed in the past 45 years! Heck, it's changed a lot since my time too.</p>
<p>The big change is that the GI bill no longer pays for nearly as much of college. It is much less generous, paying around $1075 per month for up to 36 months. That's far less than the Dartmouth guy, or I, received in constant $.</p>
<p>I also wonder if SJ noticed the irony of Wright's Walter Reed visits. Do we really want to suggest that our good sons (or daughters) should take a chance at becoming one of these "seriously wounded veterans" that Wright is helping?</p>
<p>Finally, for those not aware, Iraq ground service is not limited to Army. The AF and the Navy have had to contribute troops due to the army being stretched so thin. The AF and Navy have really groused about it too, publicly. IMHO, those "admired" generals are not always so noble, but have a bit of slacker in them like the rest of us!</p>
<p>Why are you always so negative, newmassdad? Your comments are unkind --of course I'm aware that EVERYTHING has changed in the time since Wright was a Marine. Can't you just applaud the career success and good intentions of an Ivy league president from a humble background?</p>
<p>At a need-based college, such as Dartmouth or any of the Ivy's, there is considerable FA available to anyone who qualifies. I imagine that quite a few veteran's would do so. </p>
<p>And instead of making nasty comments about visiting Walter Reed, why not ask why other leaders in both corporate and academic life aren't there as well? It seems to me that the LEAST we can do as Americans is to support all veterans, but especially those who have been injured.</p>
<p>Finally, I'm fairly certain that anyone with any military contacts is well aware that the Army is not the only branch involved in Iraq. So what if they complain? I complain when I have to clean house, or go to work or take the kids where they need to go. It doesn't mean I won't do my job to the best of my ability -- but I certainly reserve the right to complain about it!</p>
<p>I'd complain too! The AF and Navy were not expecting to be pulling convoy duties in Iraq! It was not the job they were training for (except for a small portion of Security Forces). I know one veteran who went from aircraft maintinance to providing security for Iraqi contractors. The generals are, in part, looking out for their service. Lending personnel to other services is a drain on our side of the house. It is not the job airmen and sailors are supposed to be doing. Now, I am not saying that there aren't a lot of sailors and airmen who are very proud to help, but the situation is not ideal. I'm sure those who run the AF budget asked why they had to pay for personnel to do Army jobs when they are struggling to find funding to modernize the AF.</p>
<p>sjmom,</p>
<p>why am I negative? Because some posters here seem to be intent on painting a glossy image of wonderful life in the military, and making comparisons that are just not appropriate. If you are aware of a way to counterbalance these portrayals in a positive way, let me know. And surely you don't advocate only providing one side of the story, do you?</p>
<p>raimus,</p>
<p>Are you implying that the military sends untrained AF folks into Iraq? I don't think so. Maybe some of these folks signed up for the AF in order to avoid Iraq style duty, while taking advantages of what the military has to offer, only to realize that the military is not just three separate services but rather one fighting machine with common goals? Let the OP be aware of this...</p>
<p>When a young person is considering sacrificing his life, I don't think "kindness" and rosy positive comments are all that are needed.</p>
<p>The OP asked for advice. He didn't ask for people to tell him <em>only</em> the great things about the military. He got a smattering of very pro-military experiences, and some less so. Seemed pretty balanced, or if anything, more pro-military than not.</p>
<p>If people pose questions on a public forum, they can expect all kinds of responses...those with which they agree, and those with which they don't. That's the nature of a chatboard, and the conversation shouldn't be controlled to only adhere to a single POV (although I find that it often does anyway....).</p>
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<p>Are we helping here?</p>
<p>Be sure you are ready for the bootcamp experience and the hard part of being separated from friends, family, and the outside world for however long your bootcamp is. You can be recycled at any stage if you aren't performing well which delays that time period. My brother joined the Navy in1999 and he said the 10-12 weeks he was in bootcamp was the most stressful and exhausting period of his life so far......not just physically but mentally too. He finished and was very proud of himself but there were many that did not make it because so much of that time is spent breaking you down to where all attitudes are gone and everyone is equal. The things they say to you to get you in that frame of mind are very tough on some people but necessary in order to build you up to their standards. You will go in one person and come out another whether you like it or not. You would have it a little easier if you went in with a college degree but if this is the route you want to take just be prepared for the unknown and see it through. You will meet some great people but there are also some that join as a last resort from having failed at everything else they have done so far which means you need to stay away from them. The other thing my brother encountered was a lot of underage drinking that was ignored and it became a problem for him because he was too immature to handle being away from home and so far away. He made some bad decisions and after a year was sent home......short story here is be sure you are joining for the right reasons and are ready for the huge comittment even if some of what they say turns out not to be true......where you will be stationed....what job you will be training for. Once you join the military you belong to the military and they can and will change things to fit their needs at that time. Good luck with your decision.</p>
<p>Air Force bootcamp 6 weeks, add on 4-5 days of processing.</p>
<p>I'm not saying that AF personnel were not trained for their duties. Unfortunately, some recieved only minimal training for their deployed jobs. The friend who was in maintinence trained for that, but then recieved a basic course in Force Protection, rather than the comprehensive tech school that Security Forces personnel would recieve. The training for convoy duties, etc. has greatly improved in the last couple years, but it is still secondary training.</p>
<p>raimius,</p>
<p>The Army is being absolutely ground into the ground with the duty intensity demanded by our leadership for Iraq. I find it so disappointing and perhaps selfish when other services like the AF complain about having to do their part. After all, in past wars, the Army has done a great deal to protect the AF, retrieve downed pilots and such. And don't think that the Army folks are better trained for those assignments.</p>
<p>Frankly, it is poor form for any member of the military to complain about a mission, at least it was in my day. Maybe things are softer in other services? Maybe they allow personell to pick and choose the missions they want? If not, I think a few generals need a bit of disciplining, as it is obvious this complaining in the AF about doing its part in Iraq comes from the top. JMHO.</p>
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When a young person is considering sacrificing his life...
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I don't think most people who join the AF have this in mind and far greater than 99% of them their life won't 'be sacrificed' - i.e. they'll do their duty, survive it, and then enter civilain life. The thought probably occurs to some AF personnel who are in the higher risk jobs such as flying or providing ground security in a war zone but the vast majority of AF personnel won't be exposed to overt 'life sacrificing' circumstances.</p>
<p>38 members of the Air Force have died in Iraq (against over 2000 Army and about 400 Natl Guard and 800 Marines). <a href="http://icasualties.org/oif/Service.aspx%5B/url%5D">http://icasualties.org/oif/Service.aspx</a></p>
<p>"I don't think most people who join the AF have this in mind and far greater than 99% of them their life won't 'be sacrificed' "</p>
<p>Maybe that's true, but I found it not helpful at all to realize that when it happens to you or someone you love. I feel quite certain my mom never imagined it could happen when she encouraged me to sign up in 1977, but the day I went on active duty in 1990, it happened to a lot of people. If it doesn't happen to you it might happen someone you work with, someone you deploy. I still get emotional just thinking about the mood at Travis Air Force base during Desert Storm.</p>
<p>^^ I was responding to the context of the statement by the poster "when a young person is considering sacrificing his life...". </p>
<p>I agree that it's a tragic loss when any member of the military is killed. Put in context though, a very low percentage of AF personnel have been killed in the current Middle East conflict. I don't have the data but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that more have died of natural causes and in accidents outside of the war zone than have died in the war zone. None of this helps those members who have died but the context should be set. The numbers for the Marines and Army of course, are worse.</p>
<p>Although the odds are low that an AF member will be killed in the war zone (and hence my comment on the 'sacrifice' context), many jobs in the AF (and other branches) would be generally considered hazardous regardless so of course, anyone considering entering certain jobs in the military need to consider this. The same holds true for many civilian jobs.</p>
<p>Nobody would sign up for anything military if they needed complete sanctuary from the possibility of dying in the line of duty. SImilarly, police and firefighting. I am sure that each individual weighs the risks, and thinks carefully. If the information is provided so the decision can be well-founded, that's what seems very important to me.</p>
<p>I know this thread is kinda old but as the OP had until the 26th to make up his mind I was wondering - what did you do?</p>
<p>I'm currently serving in the Army Reserves (enlisted) and the military isn't all bad and it's not all good but I'm sure you know that. PM me if you have any specific questions. I joined in February of 2001 when I was 18, turned 19 in Basic Training, attended the Defense Language Institute, deployed to Afghanistan and then came home to start college. I'm now a junior at George Washington University with a good bulk of my tuition being paid for through military funds and I have no regrets. I would even join again despite the current climate. I guess that makes me brain-dead :) </p>
<p>By joining the military it doesn't necessarily mean that you support the war. It means you're looking for everything the military can provide you. The military is not political - it is not a liberal tool or a conservative tool - it is a national tool. Just because we have to obey the president doesn't mean we have to agree with him. We swear to defend the Constitution and if swearing to defend that makes me an idiot then I'm proud to be one. </p>
<p>Overall though I'd say finish college, then decide.</p>
<p>SD, I am glad that everything has worked out for you, that you are back safely and in school at GW. That is a success story, no matter how you look at it.</p>
<p>Of course, there was always the possibility that you could have ended up more than figuratively "brain dead" while in Afghanistan, and never had a chance to use that tuition the military provided. </p>
<p>Therein lies the reason that people encouraged the OP to consider other options. I see you suggested he finish college first too, so we are probably all on the same page.</p>
<p>Best of luck to you!</p>