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Is this out of ignorance of today's military, or a form of elitism?
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No, it is a caution against putting themselves in a position where they may be required to give their lives to advance an ill-advised and inept regime-change neocon misadventure. (0ne that, by the way, their leaders' children have elected to avoid - are you listening My 5 Sons?). As I said above, it is disheartening that many of us would not encourage capable and energetic young people to pursue an honorable career in military service. But I consider the deaths in Iraq not as a defense of liberty, but as a tragic waste fostered by an arrogant and crusading cabal, and enlisting enables its continuance.</p>
<p>I would suggest they pursue, as Cheney did, "other priorities".</p>
<p>GTAplayer, lkf has something with the suggestion to reconsider studying history. In addition to being educated in the traditional sense, today's military is expected to be culturally literate and functional, to mix and blend with people - civilian and military - from many different cultures, and to be very, very ambassadorial. The war on terror and other priorities are not going to be executed by traditional warfare alone but rather with a mix of statesmanship, transnational cooperation, psychological strategies and influences as a mechanism for eroding support for terrorism (do some reading on how Madison Avenue is working with the U.S. military and the leadership of other countries on satellite advertising to reach the emerging generation of terrorist recruit targets - fascinating - and perhaps the business coursework you've completed so far will be of use here), and a long list of other activities and strategies that have nothing to do with traditional warfare. History can serve you very, very well as a foundation for this, and, how about foreign languages? There is a very long list of languages that are currently needed, as well as projections on which of those languages will be sustaining.</p>
<p>Maybe talk to some of the other students and the leadership in AFROTC, see what they think about history, perhaps with psychology and languages as a foundation for a military career...</p>
<p>GTAplayer, you may want to look at going back to history, if business is as bland to you as it sounds. If you are going to sign up for AFROTC, you should ask lots of questions (specifically including majors). I know that the AF is picky when awarding AFROTC scholarships towards specific majors, but I don't know how it works within colleges.</p>
<p>drb, thanks for the response. It's always nice to get a reasoned debate rather than flaming. I'll have to do some more research on that sometime.</p>
<p>newmassdad, you make some excellent points, especially in the shift in demographics in our military. I have heard (second hand) that the Air Force Academy scandal was inflated by the media. Being here, I would be inclined to agree. I do not actually know the extent of the alleged spin.</p>
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That's not the conclusion I would have reached.</p>
<p>treetop--"a few years of service"--from what I have read, your tour of duty may stretch on and on if the military needs your warm body to meet its goals in Iraq.</p>
<p>I agree with some that the military is an honorable profession; the situation now is just sad.</p>
<p>"...frankly, I think you'd have to be completely out of your mind to join today. I honestly don't look at people who do something like this as wonderful patriots; my immediate thought is-- they must be really stupid, or possibly brain-dead. "</p>
<p>Could not resist. Yup, that's the same thought I had when my son informed us that he joined the army ROTC and will be commissioned as an officer after he graduates from college. Then I talked to him, and realized he is actually one of the most intelligent and sensitive people I know. I may not agree with him, but I will respect his decision. </p>
<p>I just hope that jack will give her children the respect they derserve if they opt to do something that she may or may not agree with. I wonder if she has a son?</p>
<p>My son was already offered a very lucrative job after graduation by the father of one of his roommates. He pondered the idea of making lots of money in what he viewed as a potentially unfulfilling job. It probably took much more courage on his part to join the military. Brain dead? Not quite.....</p>
<p>The OP isn't saying he/she wants to join 'the military', but rather the USAF. There is a difference, particularly for one with top scores who can opt for any USAF specialty.</p>
<p>The USAF officer I know of had a 4 month deployment in Iraq, in an air conditioned tent.</p>
<p>I worked for defense contractors for years, and found that while they understood full well the value of former military experience and were willing to hire them, most employers in industry did not. I view this as ignorance.</p>
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** Hmmm. Are you saying that the applied knowledge is less valuable in the market place? I think I could agree with that. Surely you aren't saying that a college degree earned while in the AF wasn't marketable due to "service". It seems to me that the "new" AF is taking on the education issue as one that needs to be addressed. I think promotions come through increased education. No?</p>
<p>I hear/read much anecdotal report of folks enlisting to afford a college education. Marketing to this is also prevalent.</p>
<p>I'm saying that sometimes the experience gained in service is discounted by industry. Vets can have a hard time finding employment. It would be better to hear from someone with more recent experience, but I found that employers (and others) don't know offhand what military people do and therefore don't understand the value of their experience. A former General was interviewed on BookTV a few weeks ago and he said someone (a reporter? can't recall) accused him of getting a top corporate management job due solely to connections. He joked about it, saying "I've managed a budget, I've managed people". No kidding! I think many in the corporate world would consider the experience gained by the average 4 year enlisted veteran as meaningless, where in reality it would compare very well against the average person who spent 4 years in industry. That's what I mean by ignorance.</p>
<p>I can see comparing the apples to apples thing. Industry or union worker to enlisted. That makes some sense. What I would expect is that ALL people use contacts or networking to get a job. I would expect that most generals have college degrees. Corporate culture is very different than military culture I believe. That might be an issue? I guess we could discuss the General Motors model?</p>
<p>"Vets can have a hard time finding employment."</p>
<p>I would think that is because some employers fear having that new hire get called back for duty. It's a dirty little secret, and even though there are laws against it, if you don't hire em, you don't have to worry about call ups. </p>
<p>Now this isn't an attack on serving, it's an honest observation. While most everybody will wave the flag and talk about patriotism, sometimes it's conditional patriotism. On the condition it doesn't effect "me" or my "bottom line" I support xyz.... </p>
<p>In this kid's case there honestly isn't a right or wrong choice, just his.</p>
<p>Here is a fairly current article that might be interesting to the OP. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with it, just bringing it to his/ her attention.</p>
<p>OK I enjoyed the posted comment about chemical engineering degree myself. Hazmat handling is all about that theoretical knowledge and compliance with goverment regulation. I don't recall too many EPA superfund sites being on miitary[govt.] properties.</p>
<p>^ I think many military bases have become Superfund sites. The comment may be suggesting that military staff may have experience with these chemicals?</p>
<p>"United States military bases have some of the most serious hazardous waste problems in the nation, an issue only recently addressed by government and private environmental agencies. About 19,000 sites at 1,800 military installations show some degree of soil or groundwater pollution. More than 90 military bases have been on the EPA's Superfund list of high-priority, hazardous waste cleanup sites. Moreover, a law passed in 1992 allows federal and state regulatory agencies to levy fines against the military if their hazardous wastes are not properly managed. Prior to this, the armed forces were not subject to state or federal environmental laws. Consequently, the military now has a range of programs to clean up hazardous waste problems at its bases."</p>
<p>GTAplayer - My best friends son did leave college during his junior year - for the Air Force - and he has never regreted it for a moment - he scored very high on those exams you talked about and chose his field - and was strongly encouraged to participate in the college program that is available to active AF. He has been in for 4 years - has been to Japan - Germany - and a couple of US bases - has completed his college degree/BS in Buisiness - and is now being pursued to consider OTC - which he is considering as he is due to extend or get out. His family has been incredibly supportive of his decision as well.</p>
<p>I have another friend of my son's - completed a college degree - was somewhat lost for a bit and decided to enter the AF - as an officer - and is now a pilot.</p>
<p>I have another friends who's daughter is doing ROTC in college - started a bit late after her freshman year - and is doing very well. She is set to graduate in May and will then will ful-fill her obligation to the military - tho she is considering the AF as career.</p>
<p>You have many great options - and possibilities. If you really think the military is what you want to pursue - go for it :) You will have opportunities to reach the goals that you have and it could actually open many doors for you.</p>
<p>BTW I live in a very military community - near a base with lots of military families around - and alot of 'kids' from here do consider the military as one of the options available.</p>
<p>GTAplayer, my oldest son is in your position, exactly. Business major, bored with school, phoning it in, considering joining the military. (He hasn't thought it through as far as you have, though, AFAIK) So I'll give you the advice I have and will give him: joining the military, as an enlisted man or officer, is an honorable choice for any American. I will support his or your or any young person's decision to do so, and honor their willingness to serve our country.</p>
<p>But.... (there's always a but)... it's a major decision, investing years of your life with no turning back. And many young people have an idealized vision of military service. It's not as exciting as the recruitment commercials make it look. It's usually a grind, and not a fun one - by turns boring, dangerous, and frustrating. And recent events have shown that some of the politicians in our country will create situations which will necessarily lead to the death and maiming of thousands of our idealistic young men and women --- not for the protection of our nation but for nothing more than the futile attempt to salvage a failed politician's reputation. </p>
<p>Hopefully more responsible leaders will have taken the helm of our nation's foreign policy by the time you graduate. It might behoove you to pursue your collegiate options (AFROTC sounds like a great opportunity for you) for the next couple of years. Afghanistan will still be there, believe me.</p>
<p>I'm afraid most military bases in the country that had live fire training have a lot of environmental contamination. </p>
<p>But if you want the "mother of all sites" look at Hanford Washington. Not a military site per se, but I don't know who else used plutonium than the military!</p>
<p>One further observation that may help explain why this discussion has such different views of military life: The military has a small elite leadership, primarily those who graduated from a service academy (all officers, of course). Most of these folks have been to grad school at military expense, some even earning PhDs from the top universities. But these are a small minority. Many of the "rank and file", which includes all enlisted, do have great experiences. They do interesting things and go interesting places. But not all are so fortunate. And there is NO WAY to know in advance which will happen. And remember, as GWB reminds us, we are at war. This means much more for military than for civilians, even in a legal sense.</p>
<p>Regarding how the civilian world views veterans, it views former officers much more favorably than enlisted, I fear. Even then, most military experience does not directly translate into civilian careers, especially now that the military has outsourced much of the support activities. Those are the ones that used to lead to transferable experience. For instance, most military electronic maintenance techs these days work on things that have no counterpart in the civilian world, as the stuff that you find in both places is maintained by contractors.</p>