So, my parents aren't paying jack.

Paying for College
1

<p>And I realize I can indicate this in my financial aid forms, but do you think if I take out loans (my state has amazing 0% interest loans I qualify for), is paying off somewhere near 60,000, between my expected contribution and theirs, an absurd amount to pay back after college?</p>

<p>If so, what is an OK amount? I'm going to Columbia University in the fall (already accepted) and they've begun to re-evaluate my financial aid since this won't be enough...considering my parents....and also some "special circumstances" I'd rather not get into.</p>

2

<p>It's an absurd amount of debt to be shouldering for college, in my view. 10K to 20K is more typical-- the average Columbia University student graduates with just 8K in student loan debt (thanks in part to Columbia's generous financial aid).</p>

<p>Have you stopped to calculate what your monthly repayment would be, and for how long? I think it's a bad choice. But it's your choice to make.</p>

3

<p>I really think with the special circumstances, and this re-evaluation they've agreed to do, it's not going to be a huge deal. I'm told I'll probably wind up somewhere better. MY personal contribution is supposed to be 1800 /year. Which is nothhhhiiinnnngg. If they see my parents are not going to help, and with those yucky circumstances, I'm hoping they'll give me more.</p>

4

<p>$60,000 at zero percent? What's the monthly payment after graduation? Can your parents help you out at all with paying back loans after graduation? </p>

<p>I think $60,000 debt is sickening for a 22 year old to have. You might want to have your own apartment, car, be able to go out to dinner once in a while...think of how much that will cost and the type of job you will realistically have.</p>

5

<p>Some students assume that they'll graduate after four years and snag a job earning 80K or better, so that it will be easy to pay off significant debt in a few years. But that's not realistic (it happens, but it's rare).</p>

<p>More typical is the graduate who is making 40K a year right out of college. Depends largely on the field, and to a degree on the university. But if you look at the cost of housing, transportation, and incidentals, you really don't want 60K of student loan debt creating a huge monthly burden following college.</p>

6

<p>*MY personal contribution is supposed to be 1800 /year. Which is nothhhhiiinnnngg. *</p>

<p>I agree.
You can easily double that at least.
Working during the school year- even though you would be living in one of the most expensive cities will also decrease amt of loans.</p>

<p>But why won't they help?
If they have the money and you obviously have worked hard at your academics-I would think most parents would be proud to contribute to their childs undergrad education.</p>

<p>However- I would also anticipate that if you have the stats to be accepted at Columbia ( which in my experience- going by friends of Ds who have applied to or attended Ivies), is one of the most difficult for admission-, you should be eligible for merit aid, at a slightly less competitive school.</p>

<p>I don't like to see students take out more than $20,000 in loans at graduation,
of course while my daughter only had about $16,000 in loans, that didn't include about $35,000 that we took out in loans or from our retirement account to pay EFC.</p>

<p>Big loans limit your opportunities after graduation. A lot.</p>

<p>If I was really set on attending Columbia- I might do a couple things.
One - defer for a year- & work & save money-inc finding merit aid.</p>

<p>Two- attend part time- so
that I could continue to work to pay part of expenses.</p>

<p>Three- find other ways to save money- I don't know about their dorms, but being an RA or other assistant is a way to cut costs & some schools do have outside merit aid, that doesn't actually come from the school- but is earmarked just for students from that school.</p>

<p>Four- see what you can do- to identify- what your parents expectations were for you after high school-or was it that once you are 18- you're on your own?
( or five- find a school like Colgate- which has merit aid & would love to have a student who was accepted to an Ivy)</p>

<p>I also want to say- that for a student who is intelligent & capable and proactive regarding their choices- you will be successful whether you have a degree from Columbia or Ann Arbor.
Parents are funny sometimes.
My own parents were fairly neglectful-never speaking to us about life after high school, including even suggesting college prep classes, hence none of us attended college right after high school.</p>

<p>My brother is the only one of us who has a 4 year degree & he worked on that during the 20+ years he was in the military.
When it was time for his own kids to attend college- his oldest boy was in a CC program for firefighters. My brother told him, he would pay once he attended a 4 year school.
He * has been * attending a 4 year school, but he is working 2 or 3 jobs to pay for it. My brothers reasoning is that noone paid for his college. ( except the taxpayers)
His daughter also was attending a 4 year school- however my brother also didn't pay anything for that- as because of his military disability ( he has genetic hearing loss), the state of Indiana covered tuition and she and her mother covered room and board.
It does make me fairly ill to see kids treated like this.
In my brothers case- he could easily afford to pay tuition- he is not only getting military retirement, but his wife has a good job & he has a good job as an engineer.
We make less than half of his family income, and we sent our oldest to a private college ( albeit one that covers 100% of need)
Anyway-you can't pick your parents- :p, but with some work I know you will find your path.
good luck.</p>

7

<p>Columbia will re-evaluate your financial aid package however, unless your parents have some really extenuating circumstances; loss of income, unexpected unreimbursable medical expenses, carrying for their sick parent, etc. Columbia is not going to increase your aid on the basis that your parents are not going to give you jack. </p>

<p>They are also not going to take in to conisderation (under extenuating circumstances) that you have a high mortgage, car notes, credit card debt, bankruptcy etc (because those are life choices).</p>

<p>If this was a the case there would be a run on the FA office at Columbia because every parent with a student at Columbia would be informing the school that they are not going to give their kid jack in order to get more $$ from Columbia).</p>

8

<p>Almost all schools tell you the large majority of appeals get nothing. We're hearing the exceptions here.</p>

9

<p>since you applied (and were accepted) to Columbia ED, you don't have many choices. </p>

<p>You can appeal the decision (which you are doing) and see if Columbia will award you additional money. Don't expect your EFC to decline based on your parents unwillingness to pay -- that isn't something they factor in. Your other circumstances may increase your aid, however. </p>

<p>If the EFC is still too high, you only option is to break the ED contract and attend a local state university. It is not recommended that you break the contract -- it can cause problems for your high school and you are generally not allowed to apply for any other private school, ivy or not.</p>

<p>So -- your only real option is to take out tremendous loans to cover your EFC and the student contribution.</p>

<p>My question is this -- did you discuss paying for college with your parents before you submitted an ED application?</p>

10

<ul>
<li>fairlyconfident - It is likely that needing to borrow 60k in loans would be reason enough to be released from ED at Columbia. Don't borrow 60K and spend the next 10 years in debt because of an inappropriate ED application. (estimate monthly payments of 690$ a month x 10 years!)</li>
</ul>

<p>From the Columbia ED webpage--
If you are admitted under the Early Decision program, you are obligated to accept Columbia’s offer of admission. Only students who (after consultation with the Financial Aid Office) cite financial reasons for not attending will be released from the Early Decision agreement. Once you accept Columbia’s offer of admission, you may file no further college applications and must withdraw any other applications that have already been submitted.</p>

11

<p>My understanding of ED is that the school determines what the student is able to pay -- and that is the EFC. Parents not wanting to pay is different than parents not able to pay. I suppose that if fairlyconfident's parents had agreed to pay and backed out after the ED acceptance, they might allow you out of the ED agreement -- but my guess is that he knew all along.</p>

<p>If you could get out of the ED agreement by simply claiming that you didn't want to pay that much (or have that much in loans, etc) -- then everyone could do that and there wouldn't be a point in having a contract. </p>

<p>It has been said again and again -- if finances are an issue, don't apply ED.</p>

12

<p>I know a couple kids who got out of ED agreements over financial issues and it wasn't a problem. One of them then went to a state school, but the other applied to privates and accepted an admissions offer at one of them that had a better financial aid offer. She even checked with the ED school before she applied asking if she could get out of it if she couldn't afford it, and they said that was no problem. It wasn't. There are fewer absolutes in all this than people would sometimes lead you to believe. Just call Columbia and ask, they won't try to force you to go there if you can't afford it, and they probably won't lower a curse on your head either, just tell them straight up what's the deal and see what advice they can give.</p>

13

<p>Hsmomstef, financial need was actually part of the reason we did decide to apply ED. Not the only reason, but it was a piece of the decision. We have a modest income, no investments, some home equity. Our son wanted to go to a small LAC, and the one he loved most and that was the best fit for him in terms of personality, sports, academic strengths, etc. is a very generous school that is open about their financial aid policies. My son's and grades and scores put him pretty squarely in the middle range of accepted kids, but not at the very upper band of kids. He applied early, with my total support, because he hoped it might lower a tiny bit the dauntingly low admissions odds. And lucky him, he was accepted. It was pretty easy to get a sense before he applied that the FA would be sufficient, and in fact it is. It's wonderful, really. Had he held off and applied in RD his application would have been evaluated as one of thousands, rather than one of hundreds. Consequently, this great --and affordable-- opportunity might well not have been his at all, and he'd likely have ended up going somewhere actually more costly. So, the advice to not apply ED if finances are an issue is probably mostly true, but it's not always true.</p>

14

<p>Columbia is very upfront when it comes to releasing a family from ED for financial reasons:

[quote]
</p>

<p>*10. Can I be released from my Early Decision contract because of my financial aid package? *</p>

<p>It is extremely rare for a family to ask to be released from the Early Decision commitment for financial reasons. There are usually only two or three families each year that ultimately are released for financial aid reasons, and this is normally due to a lack of understanding of need-based aid (i.e., they were expecting merit-based aid, they did not submit complete information when using a financial aid estimator, etc).</p>

<p>IT IS THE FAMILY’S DETERMINATION THAT THEY CANNOT AFFORD TO FINANCE A COLUMBIA EDUCATION THAT ALLOWS THEM TO BE RELEASED FROM THE BINDING EARLY DECISION ADMISSIONS OFFER. The family must first speak with a financial aid officer, before the release is granted. Ultimately, it is the family’s decision whether or not they feel capable of accepting the need-based Columbia financial aid award. </p>

<p>**Those who do opt out of their Early Decision contract are released to pursue lower-cost school options, such as state schools and/or schools that award merit aid. **The admission offer at Columbia is then cancelled. A candidate who declines Columbia’s Early Decision offer will not be allowed to reconsider Columbia’s financial aid estimate in the spring Regular Decision cycle and will not be able to reinstate the original offer of admission. </p>

<p>11. What kind of special circumstances are taken into account in the awarding of financial aid?</p>

<p>*Federal regulations and school policy allow us to adjust the financial aid formula on a case-by-case basis for such things as unusually high medical expenses, tuition for private secondary school, payments made on educational debt, and support of aging grandparents. *</p>

<p>While we realize that other liabilities such as credit card debt, high mortgage payments, car loans and necessary home maintenance may result in cash flow problems, it is generally not possible to take such expenses into consideration when calculating parental contribution. </p>

<p>Columbia</a> University Office of Undergraduate Admissions - Financial Aid

[/quote]
</p>

<p>They also issue a joint statement that says"</p>

<p>
[quote]
</p>

<p>Two plans currently are offered by Ivy Group institutions:</p>

<p>A. The College Board-approved Early Decision Plan, which is offered by Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College and the University of Pennsylvania, requires a prior commitment to matriculate. </p>

<p>Financial aid awards for those qualifying for financial assistance will normally
be announced in full detail at the same time as the admissions decisions. An applicant receiving admission and an adequate financial aid award under the Early Decision Plan (remember again, the school determines what is adequate) will be required to accept that offer of admission and
withdraw all applications to other colleges or universities. </p>

<p>All Ivy institutions will honor any required commitment to matriculate which has been made to another college under this plan.

[/quote]
</p>

15

<p>If you can't pay for Columbia ED AND Columbia won't change your aid to a reasonable amount AND your parents definitely won't pay I advise you to consult Columbia's FA/Admissions office to terminate the contract. If you were able to get into Columbia chances are you can get a near free ride at some state schools. I wouldn't be so scared about asking them to break the ED contract-these people are humans and will not force you to attend if you can't pay. For the poster that said "it won't look good for your high school" or something along the lines of that, I would worry about yourself first and future applicants second. If you really want to go to Columbia, I would advise you search for many scholarships and be ready to take out the loan. If you end up in a career such as Ibanking, which shouldn't be too hard considering you're attending an Ivy,the debt may not be as staggering as other posters think. If you wish to attend med school, I would strongly reconsider the 60k loan.</p>