<p>I meant something a bit farther down the list, Duke isn't the best example.</p>
<p><strong>chuckle</strong></p>
<p>I just think these distinctions are too fine to be stated in such categorical terms. If you are going to be a "star", then you're in another league. But there are many fine musicians coming out of schools like Indiana who will go to Aspen, etc. and will also place in first rate orchestras.</p>
<p>Just because you go to Aspen doesn't mean you have a chance at being any good. There's a bunch kids at Aspen and Encore who really don't have a prayer at a decent, sustainable career as performers alone. And I'm sorry, but to get top positions in orchestras, you have to be a star. If you cannot accept that, kindly check appointments in the last few years. Many of these violinists had honest cracks at solo careers. Some of my friends are examples... I'll even ask a few to post here if they don't mind. Look at people like Josh Roman (Seattle... cello player but whatever... won the principle position and is now quitting to be a soloist), R. Gupta (LA Phil) and Alex Bulov (San francisco)... soloists all of them.</p>
<p>The reason I mentioned Aspen is that it just gives you a cross-section of violinists your age. No one my age dreams of IU or even thinks about with enthusiasm. After Fried left, (and her studio with her to NEC), people lost interest. Laredo brings people to auditions, but he only has like 7 people (and someone just left his studio because he's never there). That doesn't draw the best talent pool. As you said, the teachers are great, but a lot of people thrive on competition which is why IU isn't so big anymore. A lot of my friends are at the age where they're doing their auditions for undergrad and grad. My roomate did grad auditions and used the IU one as a warmup. They get an unbelievable amount of applicants because they give pretty much everyone auditions. I'm just telling you what's common for people my age, and people who can play. So I'm talking about seniors in highschool and older... that's just perception, and as you know, like in capitalism, a thing is only worth as much as what people will pay for it. This all started because people were talking about how IU accepts people right away. No other music school does that, and in such sheer volume. There's quite obviously a reason for that, besides its size.</p>
<p>Not to pile on this particular school, but I've always thought it has one of the most unhelpful locations for a top-rated music school.</p>
<p>...and I've heard of people who had no answer on financial aid until after the decision deadline.</p>
<p>well Indiana has been extremely successful in sending people to pro-orchestras in the past, but the same quality isn't there anymore, so you'll see a drop off, especially because there's so many more viable schools than there were back then.</p>
<p>...what I mean is, its geographical location, not being close to any large musically-inclined city. I didn't really want to bring up the plane crash, but they were flying back from a gig or a rehearsal I believe.</p>
<p>...well, the thing is huge, what 1600 students?</p>
<p>A friend of my older son's was on that plane. The kids didn't need to fly to that gig which was 2 hrs. away. They could easily have driven to. The pilot and owner of the plane was a music student. They flew for fun and she was a new, inexperienced pilot and flew out in the fog. It was a tragedy, but everyone afterwards said they should have just driven the 2 hours.</p>
<p>It was a terrible tragedy, and could, to be fair, have happened pretty much anywhere. Very sorry for your son's loss.</p>
<p>Vieuxtemps, one of the things I have really appreciated about the Music Major section of the forum is the lack of myopic criticism of anything that isn't HYP or their so-called music equivalents. Of course, there is also short sightedness--or tunnel vision--on the other side of the coin, where posters think everyone at HYP is snobby and drives a Lamborghini. Perhaps this forum is more pleasant than many (the music theater forum is also wonderfully supportive of the many schools available) because most of us music posters are parents and have a certain amount of perspective that comes from having been-there-done-that, and a certain sensitivity borne from friends and family saying, "Your kid wants to be a MUSICIAN?!"</p>
<p>You have every right to have a narrow view of the music world, just as I have the right to suggest that your view IS narrow. I know nothing about the violin world--heck, I know nothing about the vocal performance world, which my son is interested in--but there are different strokes--so to speak--for different folks and there is not one chosen-by-God place where all the best violinists come from.</p>
<p>Go back and read this thread:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/463662-where-they-went-school.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/463662-where-they-went-school.html</a></p>
<p>(L. Fortissimo, the comment about the plane crash is downright absurd. You don't think that musicians fly all over this earth to go to gigs? I live in the NY area and am quite aware that some people here think that the world is like the Steinberg drawing--it ends at the Hudson River. My NYC-born MIL thought she had to bring coffee beans to our wedding in North Carolina because they didn't sell such things there, and she thinks Indiana is west of the Mississippi. I love her dearly--I am just aware of geographical prejudice.)</p>
<p>Lorelei, re Indiana's orchestra requirements, I have heard students complain about the hours dedicated to rehearsals. Unlike some of the conservatories, IU orchestra meets regularly several times a week (I believe 3 times for a couple hours per week, but I could have IU's specific rehearsal schedule confused with others). Some of the other conservatories orchestra schedules work more like professional orchestra - 4 rehearsals, then a concert. My understanding is that at IU, everyone is assigned to an orchestra or opera (that meets even more than regular orchestra) at all times throughout the semester. I know some other places students have weeks of time off from any orchestra rehearsal schedules.</p>
<p>All those rehearsals (and opportunities!) may be welcomed by winds who by definition are playing virtual solo parts. Some violinist students resent the time sitting in rehearsals, though....</p>
<p>I don't understand why you are targeting me, Neumes. I made one comment about the location of a school, which is in a fairly remote area, not near a major city or airport. It's not a criticism, just a fact. Some people take these things into account when choosing a school. That is the only comment I made about the school, besides the difficulty with financial aid that I had heard about. So I really don't know why you are accusing me of having a "narrow view." Perhaps you could elaborate more on my very few words on this topic late last night. And as I said, I had no intention of piling on this particular school; I feel it may have some unhelpful attributes that people are looking at, unhelpful to the school. I don't think that is snobby or narrow.</p>
<p>um-k, so I see you have taken my name off the general criticism when you edited</p>
<p>You are right, L. Fortissimo, I shouldn't have put your name at the top. Didn't mean to target you--I changed it so it won't go down in CC history.</p>
<p>An exchange of one-liners back and forth tends to start seem like a snowball running downhill, getting bigger and bigger. Vieuxtemps actually presented some pretty meaty comments, and I really appreciate his/her point of view, but in my opinion, there's a big world out there. I do feel that one-liners without substance aren't terribly helpful, even if thrown out late at night. If you have personal experience with a school or have some pretty solid hearsay info, I'd love to hear it. It may have been late at night for you but I read it at 6:15am, while my coffee was brewing, geezer that I am! ;)</p>
<p>I think one-liners are fine.</p>
<p>...and I have previously praised this school on this board. If you want "solid hearsay info," I have talked to people auditioning at a high level who have not auditioned there because of the location and specifically mentioned the lack of a major airport. Perhaps this could be something that has been or could be addressed, in order to make travel safer and more convenient. It is an issue for many people, and I don't think the topic should be off-limits.</p>
<p>Vieuxtemps - Colburn and Curtis are tuition-free. The other schools you mention (Rice, NEC, MSM, CIM) all cost $40k-$50k/year. Perhaps that is why you still see so many people going to IU which has the unique attribute of being a state funded school which is $30K/year for a solid music education. They also give away a lot of money - more than those other schools.</p>
<p>My personal opinion is that the best schools are in Europe where the kids spend 80% of their time practising and taking lessons. I feel that here there is too much time spent on music academics and sometimes ensemble requirements. This is a controversial position, but if my son were doing what I think best, he would either go to Europe next year or stay home and continue to study privately with his current teacher. He wants to go to US college next year and I would not stand in the way of his ambitions. I agree with Neumes that a narrow vision of how to achieve a music career is not helpful to those who either can't get into or can't afford those "bigger, better" schools. Please realize that Indiana Univ. is a dream achieved for some even as it is evidently a loser for others.</p>
<p>As for competition driving you, there are different kinds of people in this world. As for my son, perhaps uniquely, he works a lot better without a lot of constant direct competition. He is more focused on what HE can do and not on what others can do. His teacher is the single most important factor in his music education by a lot. Some have said that he has a unique approach to his instrument. So long as he has a teacher who has the broader picture in mind, he continues to move forward and has become much more competitive as he moves outward to compete.</p>
<p>The topic is not off limits! I specifically said that you have every right to say what you want, and I have every right to disagree. That's why this is a forum!</p>
<p>Yes, of course, please disagree. But don't read into my words something that wasn't there.</p>