So you want an MA in IR...

Graduate School
1

<p>I realize that there are quite a few IR threads here already, but here's one that might shake things up a bit.</p>

<p>So you want an MA in IR, huh?</p>

<p>Why? Why do you want to give SIPA or SAIS or Georgetown $40K a year for the degree? Financial aid at even the top IR programs is scant, and many students leave with large debt burdens.</p>

<p>And let's be fair here- most IR-based careers aren't going to land you the big bucks. The average MA hire at State or any other government agency is going to be making around a GS-11 or so on the OPM payscale. For those of you who don't know those acronyms, that translates to around $50K a year. To be fair, this translates to a lot if you're considering dollars per hour and the benefits and pension, but I'm going to get back to this in a second...</p>

<p>Let's forget about what you're going to make once you get the job. Hell, you need to get a job first. A popular agency is the FBI. The FBI is looking to hire around 200-300 new special agents this year. Well into the tens of thousands will be applying. Many of them will come in with JDs, CPAs, MBAs, and other much more recognized and in the case of the latter two, quantitative degrees.</p>

<p>"I don't want to work for the FBI." That's fine, but your odds aren't much better. State doesn't hire that many more, and gets tons of applications. And really, let's look at the list of commonly sought after public sector jobs- CIA, DIA, NSA, Treasury, Homeland Security... these jobs all get tons of applicants.</p>

<p>"But I got into SAIS!" Congratulations. You have a step up on most of us. But you're still not a shoo-in, and now you've probably got an extra $50-75K in debt to deal with.</p>

<p>Did I mention you're not making big bucks?</p>

<p>Some of you want to go into development. But I often have a hard time getting the development track people to think about the money. Non-profits don't make a profit (hence the name.) That also means that most of the people working for them aren't making much money. The idealism and energy to go and work on issues of poverty in poor countries is admirable. But think ahead for a second. That debt translates into a lot of money to be paying every month. </p>

<p>You can't help those in poverty if you're in poverty yourself.</p>

<p>So now that I have your attention and probably have scared some people, I want to give the positive side of things. For one, the skill sets taught at top IR programs are becoming increasingly quantitative. Excel, STATA, econometrics, statistics, finance, accounting, etc. are becoming increasingly normal things to see on the class list at top IR programs. And this is good. Because in reality, knowing what the most popular realist or liberalist theory on IR is is good and all, but number crunching gets you jobs. And jobs put food on your table, a roof over your head, and a check in the mail to pay back your debt.</p>

<p>Oh, and I'll level with you: either go quantitative or go home. I know that a lot of us aren't number heads. We get sick at the thought of differential calculus. Econ is a pain.</p>

<p>But I can't stress this enough: quantitative skills set you apart and get you jobs.</p>

<p>Then again, so do language skills. IR programs are oftentimes fantastic because they offer students the time to study a language. A firm like Sony, between hiring an MBA with no language skills, and an IR grad with excellent language skills, might go for the latter in some cases. </p>

<p>Still, I want all of you who are pursuing an IR degree to really think about it and ask yourself if you need the degree to do what you want to do.</p>

2

<p>Well, it's either that or else do unpaid volunteer work in the developing world and have virtually no income coming in for a year or two. I'm making a career change - the vast majority of mid- or upper-level development jobs require a master's degree or comparable experience. So it's a toss-up betweeen putting my life on hold to go overseas for a couple of years (not attractive when you're mid-30s and single) or sucking up the debt and doing the degree program.</p>

<p>Also, I have a network of about two people in the field right now. Jobs come through a network, not want ads - the master's program will let me meet people and also give me internship experience.</p>

<p>Oh, and the corporate world is just as bad. Unless you're in finance or have an advanced degree in law, tech, or something, salaries are dropping and companies don't want to keep anyone over 40 around anyway because they can always hire a recent graduate for far less. At least in an NGO or government agency, I'll be doing something I'd rather do and will have more job security. It's impossible to have less.</p>

3

<p>
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the vast majority of mid- or upper-level development jobs require a master's degree or comparable experience.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, and so you have an absolutely solid reason to get the MA. </p>

<p>Look, I'm not saying, "don't go for the IR MA." I'm saying that you need to be careful with the consideration of it. If you have a definite reason to get one, then it's a fantastic degree. Otherwise, it's just two letters after your name that cost you tons of money and two years of opportunity costs.</p>

4

<p>Myabe I am rare but I simply did it because I enjoy the field and love what I learn. I guess I am a slacker but I am not worried what I will do with the degree maybe a Ph.D maybe teach at a CCC who knows. I will be 25 when I am done and figure msot of my friends waste a lot more time at this age.</p>

5

<p>I kind of have to agree with fitzgerk. I love the field and I am just really excited about learning more. I have given a lot of thought to what I want to do afterwards, but I feel that I won't really know which role is best for me until I have a better understanding of the different aspects of IR. I expect I will probably end up continuing on to a phd, though there are so many options with an IR degree there is really no way of knowing at this stage.</p>

<p>I realize that the costs of an MA are astronomical, but for some reason I'm really not worried about the loans. I guess maybe it's because everyone I know has grad school loans, but I feel like in the end paying them back won't be a problem even if it does take a long time.</p>

6

<p>Maybe...maybe not. I think that's UCLAri's point. There are a lot of people who have followed that line of thinking right into bankruptcy. Those loans add up to a lot per month, and if there isn't a solid job waiting for you...how do you pay up? Sure, you can get them deferred for maybe a year, but what then? You could end up paying around $1000-1500 a month in loans. Are you really prepared to do that?</p>

<p>He's just saying that you need to have a plan. If school were free, I'd probably be there my whole life, learning new and interesting things. As it stands, though, thinking a bit about your career aspirations is a wise move.</p>

7

<p>
[quote]
I guess maybe it's because everyone I know has grad school loans, but I feel like in the end paying them back won't be a problem even if it does take a long time.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm going to have to continue with DespSeekPhd's point here.</p>

<p>No, not everyone pays them back. Not by a long shot. In fact, there's a line on applications for clearances with the federal government that asks whether or not you've ever defaulted on a loan.</p>

<p>If you have, you can kiss most federal employment goodbye. And many private employers, upon doing a credit check, will also nix you. </p>

<p>And what a lot of people don't factor in are the opportunity costs. How much money could you have made during those two years if you had been fully employed instead? Probably around $60-80K, based on most starting salaries (over two years.) So now you have debt and you missed on potential income.</p>

<p>I'm not saying that you shouldn't go to grad school. Not at all. I'm saying that you need to consider the costs and benefits.</p>

<p>If you're just in grad school to read books, then get a job and read books when you get home. Go to grad school to get skills and a degree.</p>

8

<p>Okay, this is NOT meant to be as sneaky and underhanded a question as it sounds.....</p>

<p>I know that student loans can't be wiped out in a bankruptcy. However, in many (most?) situations credit card debt can be. So why would someone not use a credit card check or 12 to pay off their student loans, then declare bankruptcy at a later date and have the credit card debt mitigated?</p>

<p>I'm not planning on doing this, mind you, but I never understood why people couldn't just move their student loans to a few credit cards and then avoid the whole defaulting-on-a-federal-loan business.</p>

9

<p>I realize that my earlier post came off as perhaps a little too casual of an answer. I agree entirely that graduate school is not a decision to be made lightly under any circumstances. In financial terms the opportunity cost of going to graduate school is massive, especially for someone like me who is moving from the business world. The loss of income will be well over $150k and that isn't even considering the loans that I am going to need to take. However, if we are thinking in terms of opportunity cost then we should be comparing it not only to the potential income, but to the overall Utility of going to graduate school. That means that among other things, we need to account for the value of enjoying the learning experience, the connections / network that we will develop, the job opportunities and the doors that will be opened in the future through the experience. If everyone considered only the financial costs, I don't believe that anyone would ever go to grad school. Even for an MBA it is extremely difficult to recoup the cost of school plus the 2 years of lost income, but still people willingly go to graduate school all the time.</p>

<p>In my case, I am choosing to give up a relatively high paying job that I don't enjoy in exchange for far less income in a field where I can feel good about myself and what I am doing with my life. At least for me, there is definitely a lot of value in that. </p>

<p>That said, feeling good isn't exactly going to pay back the loans. I know that lots of people struggle with loans, which is why I am working hard now to save enough money to cover at least some of the education costs. I realize that many people do end up defaulting on loans and perhaps I am fortunate knowing that I could always go back to the private sector, if I was desperate for money. Still, to make this kind of career change to find something that can make me happy, it is worth taking on the liability.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
I know that student loans can't be wiped out in a bankruptcy. However, in many (most?) situations credit card debt can be. So why would someone not use a credit card check or 12 to pay off their student loans, then declare bankruptcy at a later date and have the credit card debt mitigated?</p>

<p>I'm not planning on doing this, mind you, but I never understood why people couldn't just move their student loans to a few credit cards and then avoid the whole defaulting-on-a-federal-loan business.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>For one, it's unethical. And also because it may preclude you from serious federal employment forever.</p>

11

<p>if you really like the academia part of it, the better option may well be getting a few years of policy experience after undergrad and then going straight for a PhD and bypassing the MA degree. doctoral programs theoretically fund you (i say this with caution, the IR PhD program i got into last year DIDN'T have funding for me or most of my cohort, so i deferred, but most programs aren't like this), so you could avoid the loans, and get a terminal degree. of course, keep in mind that it requires a much longer time committment (2 years vs. 5+), and depending on what you want to do, a masters may be sufficient for your career.</p>