<p>We recently attended Princeton Preview with our son. I have to say, the vibe around campus seemed heavy. Perhaps it was timing with senior theses due soon. We're just not sure and a bit concerned. We noticed that many of the other admits seemed to be from private prep schools. How well will a public school kid from California fit in? Princeton's reputation is work hard/play hard. We saw the work hard, but we didn't see much levity or "play." How competitive is it? Do kids work together, share ideas, etcetera. Is it the same across all majors? Do varsity athletes mix well with the rest of the students, or do the various groups keep to themselves? I got the impression that kids only take time to socialize over meals. What else do kids do for fun?</p>
<p>These are certainly fair questions and you are correct that the seniors are very deeply involved in finishing their theses during the spring. You won’t find too many of them with free time on their hands until after that culminating piece of work has been submitted but after that, watch out! Princeton is one of the few schools in the country (and the only one among the top members of its peer group) that requires every student to complete this major piece of work. It is a life-transforming experience and typically the second or third question that most Princeton graduates ask each other after meeting. (The other two are typically major and which residential college they were in.) You might be interested in learning more about the senior thesis at Princeton:</p>
<p>[Princeton</a> University | The Senior Thesis](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/admission/whatsdistinctive/experience/the_senior_thesis/]Princeton”>http://www.princeton.edu/admission/whatsdistinctive/experience/the_senior_thesis/)</p>
<p>Most undergraduates at Princeton are from public schools and Princeton actually has a lower percentage of students from private prep schools than can be found at some of its peers. Typically, about 70% of each matriculating class comes from public high schools or inner city Catholic schools. Harvard and Stanford are about the same. Yale has a lower percentage of public school students and a higher percentage of private prep school graduates but it’s still more than 50% public school graduates.</p>
<p>Californians are also well-represented at Princeton. Over 80% of Princeton students are from out of state and California is the single largest state of origin. California sent 201 students to Princeton as part of the Class of 2014. The next largest state contingent was 178 from New Jersey.</p>
<p>I noticed from your other posts that your son is interested in the climate for Hispanic students. Princeton has been identified as a great place in this regard. In 2010, Princeton was recognized by “Hispanic Magazine” as the best college in the nation for Latinos. The previous year it had been ranked second and the year before that it was also first. </p>
<p>Hispanic Magazine 2010 Top Twenty-Five Schools For Hispanics</p>
<p>1—Princeton
2—Harvard
3—Yale
4—Williams
5—Amherst
6—MIT
7—Stanford
8—Swarthmore
9—Columbia
10–U. of Chicago</p>
<p>[Hispanic</a> Magazine 2010 Rankings](<a href=“hispaniconline.com”>hispaniconline.com)
[Hispanic</a> Magazine 2009 Rankings](<a href=“hispaniconline.com”>hispaniconline.com)
[Hispanic</a> Magazine 2008 Rankings](<a href=“hispaniconline.com”>hispaniconline.com)</p>
<p>U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sotomayor (Princeton Class of 1976) may be the most prominent of Princeton’s recent Hispanic graduates.</p>
<p>Do the students work together, share ideas, etc? Absolutely, but Princeton won’t be much different from its peers in this respect.</p>
<p>I will leave you with this–Princeton is a fun-loving campus but its mission is serious and students take their studies seriously. That explains, perhaps, why they do so well in major fellowships, competitions and grad school placements. Princeton offers almost unbelievable resources for undergraduates but it also expects them to take advantage of those resources to learn and grow. Would you really want it any other way? I’m confident your son will thrive at Princeton should he decide to attend. Thank you for asking your questions!</p>
<p>PtonGrad2000, wow. You put so much time/effort into answering this question. I thought I’d say that because it rare and you should be commended on that. </p>
<p>OP, what other schools is your son considering?</p>
<p>Thank you!!! PtonGrad2000, I so appreciate your response. I was not aware of the Hispanic Magazine rankings and was happy to see Princeton on top. Fun-loving, but also a serious student - sounds like a fit. We’ll see what he says this time. He’s on his way home from an informal visit.</p>
<p>Metrical, I believe he has narrowed it down to Princeton and Stanford. Any advice on that choice? He’s interested in finance and history, and there seems to be a growing interest in political science based on some classes he has sat in on during his various visits.</p>
<p>Princeton and Stanford are tied for best in the nation in the USNWR History department PhD rankings. Not much difference. For finance the Bendheim Center for Finance is very highly rated by Wall Street. See: [Bendheim</a> Center for Finance - Bendheim Center for Finance - Princeton University](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/bcf/]Bendheim”>Princeton's Bendheim Center for Finance) Closely related is the Operations Research and Financial Engineering concentration that has prepared many students for careers as quants on Wall Street. See: [Operations</a> Research and Financial Engineering | Engineering for Business, Commerce and Industry](<a href=“http://orfe.princeton.edu/]Operations”>http://orfe.princeton.edu/) . For politics Princeton’s Woodrow Wilson School is considered by many to be the best public policy school in the country. For politics the Politics department is top rated. </p>
<p>One of my roommates was a four year athlete. He kept his same roommates until his senior year when he choose to have a single room. He joined an eating club where many of his teammates had joined. Unlike most universities students athletes do not have special dorms or special dining halls. They are regular students. </p>
<p>The residential colleges and the eating clubs promote long winded discussions and bull sessions. Perhaps too much. The science and engineering labs require students to work together on team lab experiments. The Woodrow Wilson School policy workshops require students to work together to develop policy positions. </p>
<p>Work hard/play hard. Yes, but this may also be true at Stanford.</p>
<p>What wonderful choices! Congratulations to your son.</p>
<p>In both history and political science, both of your son’s choices are top ten nationally. In history, the National Research Council has ranked Princeton as perhaps the best in the nation. In political science, it is also top ten. See:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1006939-princeton-2010-national-research-council-nrc-rankings-news-item.html?highlight=national+research+council[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/princeton-university/1006939-princeton-2010-national-research-council-nrc-rankings-news-item.html?highlight=national+research+council</a></p>
<p>HISTORY</p>
<p>1—Princeton
2—Harvard
3—Princeton (different department)
4—JHU
5—U. of Chicago
6—Columbia
7—Harvard (different department)
8—Penn
9—Stanford
10–Berkeley</p>
<p>POLITICAL SCIENCE</p>
<p>1—Harvard
2—Stanford
3—Berkeley
4—U. of Michigan
5—Columbia
6—NYU
7—Yale
8—Duke
9—Princeton
10–UC San Diego</p>
<p>If your son is interested in International Relations in particular, he would find Princeton to be outstanding. The only ranking done here is by Foreign Policy Magazine with the following most recent results (no ranking has been done since 2008).</p>
<p>Scholars in the field were asked to select the top five programs in the country. The rankings were compiled from those responses with the scores indicating the percentage of scholars who felt each program was one of those top five.</p>
<p>2008 Top Undergraduate Programs in International Relations</p>
<p>Rank % Score </p>
<p>21%----------Harvard
16%----------Princeton
12%----------Georgetown, Stanford, Yale
11%----------Columbia
7%----------U. of Chicago
5%----------Dartmouth</p>
<p>In particular, your son might be interested in the Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs. I was an undergraduate in the Wilson School and then went to Harvard for law school. WWS is a public policy school that requires its students to study in a variety of different areas (history, politics, economics, etc.) to provide them with a basis for analyzing public policy issues that might arise in a domestic or international governmental career. A great many WWS graduates go on to law school after their four year program.</p>
<p>The Woodrow Wilson Schools primary distinguishing characteristic is its policy conference and its task force work group exercises. These classes are organized on a think-tank model. An important and difficult public policy question is identified and presented to a small group of students. The students, with the guidance of the professor leading the class, identify the salient issues, decide on organizational hierarchies, divide responsibility for researching the separate issues and then go to work. Individual researchers conduct interviews, dig into public data repositories and sometimes perform field research in preparation for writing papers analyzing their portion of the public policy problem. (Task forces and policy conferences have often traveled overseas at Princetons expense to research these issues.) </p>
<p>When the papers have been completed, they are individually presented to the group and then distributed for discussion. The next step involves hours of group debate. Now that each of the students has become knowledgeable about the details of the issues, intelligent and lengthy discussions are carried on as the group tries to arrive at consensus (or at least a majority opinion) regarding the primary public policy question. </p>
<p>Finally, a group paper or statement is drafted expressing the findings and providing public policy recommendations. These papers often have real world implications. On numerous occasions, Woodrow Wilson School papers have been distributed to members of Congress, representatives at the United Nations and other policymaking bodies and their recommendations have shown up in debates (and sometimes even decisions) made by these bodies. </p>
<p>The exercise is exciting and collaborative. The prestige of the Wilson School opens doors in Washington D.C. and elsewhere allowing access to government officials at the highest levels. Even former U.S. Presidents have made private presentations to Wilson School undergraduates in these exercises. </p>
<p>Woodrow Wilson School website: [Woodrow</a> Wilson School of Public and International Affairs | Home](<a href=“http://wws.princeton.edu/]Woodrow”>http://wws.princeton.edu/)</p>
<p>Princeton actually has a long and storied history in public affairs. On a per capita basis, Princeton has produced more U.S. Governors, Ambassadors, U.S. Senators and U.S. Representatives than any other U.S. school. In absolute numbers it has produced more U.S. Supreme Court Justices (three of the current nine Supreme Court Justices went to Princeton as undergraduates) along with hordes of federal district and appellate court justices.</p>
<p>Like your son, I too was lucky enough to have both of these schools on my short list, along with a number of their peers. He will get a fantastic education at either but I’m sure Princeton would love to have him.</p>
<p>Princeton’s sweet spot is the super-smart motivated kid who also loves to socialize, play pranks, throw parties.</p>
<p>PtonAlumnus - Thank you so much for your response. Right now, he is thinking finance, but who knows where he will end up - as a mom I like the fact that Princeton would provide him with such wonderful opportunities to learn in so many different fields. I think even he has been surprised by his growing interest in political science! Who knows what may come next. Princeton and Stanford do seem to have some similar personality traits. My personal concern with Stanford is that its programs are not as evenly balanced and that there may be too much focus on the hard sciences. Also, the presence of so many grad students is just not a good thing and I worry about the teacher/student interaction. I don’t think that the frosh/soph seminars solve the issue.</p>
<p>PtonGrad2000 - Thank you again for all of your wonderful advice and information. The think tank model is something I know my son would enjoy. The Woodrow Wilson School may very well be in his future. Absent such a sophisticated program I am not sure how long political science would hold his interest, but finding a way to solve a real problem - well that I know he will enjoy. To be honest, I think he is going to have trouble choosing which classes to take if he ends up at Princeton. And that is the way it should be. </p>
<p>Alumother - I am so glad to hear that there really is balance. He wants a good edcuation and he is aching for an academic challenge, but he has a sense of humor and enjoys being social. I think that he and I are both convinced that there is no better academic environment for him; he just needed to find the personal connection with classmates. I think he may have found that during his visit today. I hope so.</p>
<p>Thanks TheAnalyzer. Which study produced those tiers? I am curious what they are based on.</p>
<p>Wow. The lot of you should be commended for your efforts to match someone with the best possible program for them. I can’t imagine one of my relatives doing something like this for me… :)</p>
<p>Hopefully you get the sense that Stanford is respected by Princeton alumnae. Many Princeton students would like to attend grad school at Stanford. When students that I am interviewing ask about Stanford I tell them that the two schools have many similarities. However, the school spirit and sense of community at Princeton is special. Here is a link to a student that has attended both Princeton and Stanford. [The</a> Prox: Orange and Apples: Stanford](<a href=“http://dpprox.blogspot.com/2010/02/orange-and-apples-stanford.html]The”>The Prox: Orange and Apples: Stanford) </p>
<p>Princeton students quickly make many friends. Prior to freshman week students can attend a pre-frosh outdoor adventure trip. Many students make friendships that last for a lifetime. See: [Outdoor</a> Action Frosh Trip Program](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/ft/index.shtml]Outdoor”>Frosh Trip | Outdoor Action) While Princeton is much smaller than Stanford the residential colleges provide a small town unit for students to get to know a group of friends. Ponder this list of student organizations. [Directory</a> -*Office of the Dean of Undergraduate Students - Directory](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/odus/activities/organizations/directory/]Directory”>http://www.princeton.edu/odus/activities/organizations/directory/) Your son can easily find other student with similar interests.</p>
<p>PtonAlumnus is, as usual, spot on:). Princeton is smaller than Stanford, both in number of students and geographically. Kids make very strong friendships, and often have large groups of friends who eat together, go out together, go to New York together, etc. I think Princeton can be most succinctly understood as a combination of intense independent study and wide campus affability.</p>
<p>Tahoepine–
What was the weather like during your visit? I was there for the second preview, and it was cold and rainy, so that may have contributed to the downer vibe you felt.</p>
<p>Unfortunately the weather was bad (rainy) during the first preview as well.</p>
<p>tahoepine-</p>
<p>I find your observations about your visit to Princeton interesting; I pretty much felt the same way.</p>
<p>I visited Princeton for one day and a night during the fall, and then attended Preview last week and also found the atmosphere a little “heavy.” My choice this year was between Princeton and Yale and I actually expected Princeton to have a more light-hearted atmosphere – maybe because of the lack of professional schools, the suburban campus, eating clubs, etc. But I noticed, as you did, kind of a damp atmosphere. Students didn’t seem quite as enthusiastic about their experience and I didn’t find them quite as open or welcoming as the Yalies. My host at Yale was noticeably friendlier and and really went out of her way to make sure I got a broad view of what life was at Yale. Everyone at Yale was like that. There seemed to be less tension.</p>
<p>It was interesting, too, because the Yale Campus was pretty much in shock and mourning over the accidental death of a senior in a Chemistry tool shop.</p>
<p>Anyhow, I ultimately signed up for Yale, but not really because of this issue. It was just a gut thing. Good luck with whatever decision your child comes to!</p>
<p>When the Street is shut down (read: during Preview), the general mood on campus seems to grow more tense. Not because we can’t get alcohol, but more because we feel that the powers that be are cramping our style. This mood contrasts starkly with that seen on the Monday after second Preview (or today, which was equally nice), when the weather was warm and beautiful, the cherry blossoms were blooming, and one could not walk between two buildings without catching sight of students tossing a frisbee, throwing a baseball, playing a guitar, and/or otherwise just soaking up the sun. That’s what Princeton feels like almost* all the time, even if we’re not showing it so visibly.</p>
<p>*the occasional problem set/paper that keeps me up past 4 am - I’m terrible with working efficiently because I generally tend to work with other people around, providing plenty of enjoyable distractions - can provide an exception.</p>
<p>Hello, Tahoepines, Alumother and PtonAlumnus–
Thank you so much for this thread–S is having a similar reaction to that of Tahoepine’s son;and with just a few days left to decide, he is looking for clarity. Princeton Preview impressed him sincerely and the students were very gracious, but he did notice a level of seriousness and intensity above that of other schools he is considering. Also, perhaps, a private school flavor that we are not used to. We are public school, middle class, western. S also is intense and passionate about his studies but is looking for fun and warmth in college, too. Gentle pranks are part of his metier. So, your insights welcomed and received gratefully as we are down to the wire . . . .</p>
<p>Last year, my son was choosing between MIT and Princeton so he decided to do both revisits. </p>
<p>He went to MIT and had what he called “the best weekend of my life”. The students run the whole event and really throw their heart and soul into it. It shows.</p>
<p>Then he went to Princeton Preview and was really underwhelmed. His host was a really intense electrical engineer who lived in substance free housing and didn’t seem to know the meaning of “relax”. He wound up leaving a day early. (I think Princeton needs to really relook their preview weekend. It’s just not that good.)</p>
<p>In spite of all this, he still chose Princeton. I think he had the maturity to see that the impression gotten from these revisits have a lot to do with luck (weather, host assignment, etc). </p>
<p>He could not be happier. Yes, the students are intense…he wouldn’t want it any other way. But boy do they know how to have fun too. I think he has had more fun in his first year in college than he did in four years of high school!</p>
<p>I think everyone should choose the school they think is best for them and certainly Princeton isn’t for everyone. I do think that one shouldn’t turn it down based on a notion that students aren’t “warm” or don’t have fun. This couldn’t be further from the truth!</p>
<p>Regarding the public school vs. private school thing. Princeton class of 2014 enrolled 59% from Public school and another 10% for religious schools. Yale enrolled 56% from public and not sure about religious. So I think these schools are all similar in this regard. Most students did not go to a private school.</p>
<p>@soomoo: I am glad your son had fun at Princeton! Could you describe what kind of fun?</p>
<p>Well…he joined the most fun group on campus. The infamous Princeton University Band. So he has formed great relationships with students from every grade. He has traveled up and down the east coast going to football and basketball games. He stood right on the sidelines as Douglas Davis sank the shot to beat Harvard and win the right to represent the Ivy League in the NCAA tournament. He traveled to Tampa, all expenses paid, to cheer them on as they fell to Kentucky.</p>
<p>Extracurricular opportunities abound at Princeton and almost everyone is involved in something. It’s very easy to get involved in life on campus outside the classroom. </p>
<p>Here’s a link to something huge going on this weekend on Campus. About 1/2 of the student body participates…that’s about 2500 kids.</p>
<p>[Untitled</a> Document](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/~awesome/tournament.html]Untitled”>Untitled Document)</p>