<p>We visited over the weekend - great looking campus, obviously a school with a lot of resources. Princeton Review suggests that greek life dominates the social scene. Is that true and is Richmond a fit for someone not into that? Thanks.</p>
<p>gas, I was not in a fraternity (although I played rugby, which is a fraternity in its own right) but I had a lot of friends in the various frats. I think 40% of guys are in frats, so the percentage is high, but that doesn't mean that you'll be ostracized if you aren't in one. They provide a social outlet on campus that is available to pretty much anyone, so they're very inclusive. </p>
<p>If the frat scene isn't your thing, various student groups have things going on pretty much every weekend, and the university sponsors alternative activities. My freshman and sophomore years, I went to the frat parties a lot, but my junior and senior year, I started hanging out with my friends and rugby players more and getting off campus. I don't think I went to a fraternity sponsored party my last two years with the exception of Pig Roast.</p>
<p>If you're concerned about the social scene, I would highly suggest taking an overnight visit. Go to classes on Friday then check it out on Friday and Saturday with your host. That will help give you a better feel for what the school is really like.</p>
<p>Yes, that's a great concern I have too, Gas.
I did my undergraduate work at a college about the size of Richmond whiose social scene was utterly dominated by the Greek System. In fact I recently went onto their website and was amazed to find a glowing account of how great Greek life is, something I've never seen on all the college websites I've been on this past year as my daughter looked at many different colleges. When you're in a stifiling campus situation like that you're automatically put into a frat/sorority not of your choosing: Not Oneof Ussa. A smaller school (like Richmond) can have tremendous advantages over larger institutions (which is the reason I went to a smaller school), but the Greek System can definitely be an achilles heel of smaller universities. My wife went to a large state university and the fact that she didn't want to "do the sorority thing" was no big deal and she wasn't automatically placed into "Not Oneof Ussa." I don't want my daughter to be either: it's a university, not junior high, after all.</p>
<p>Yeah that's a problem for me as well. I like both Richmond and Wake Forest a lot, but it seems as if they are dominated by the Greek scene, something that I don't plan to be a part of. I want to fit in without having to join a fraternity.</p>
<p>Another suggestion would be to regularly read the Spider Diaries on the Web site. They are found at Spider</a> Diaries :: Home. This gives you the opportunity to regularly hear from a wide variety of students about what kinds of things occupy their "out of class" time. Many of the posts are a bit stale right now--a new bunch of diarists will come on line in early September, but you can post questions to the authors as well as read what kinds of things they are up to. Hopefully that will help. </p>
<p>From where I sit, there is a full range of student opinion and involvement in the Greek system. There are those for whom it is a very big deal and the center of their social lives and then there are those who go 4 years without attending a fraternity/sorority event and don't feel like they missed a thing nor were they bored and lonely on the weekends. There are plenty of other things in which to get involved and ways to "belong" without being Greek.</p>
<p>I'm a current student (rising junior) at UR, and I have yet to go to a frat party or a sorority function. I chose not to rush, and I'm not a partier, so that social element doesn't appeal to me. I <em>do</em> have friends who are partiers and aren't part of Greek life, and they get along fine, both at Greek functions and at apartment parties. I also have friends who are Greek. I also have friends who aren't big partiers but who do go to the occasional frat or apartment party. </p>
<p>I've not found a problem with the social scene at UR; I made my group of friends, which always seems to be expanding, and we plan our outings to Cary Town or Downtown Richmond or on campus, and we enjoy that without the partying. I'm also not ostracized by the partiers or Greeks. I'm often invited to various things, but generally choose not to attend. </p>
<p>The only time I really notice a separation between the Greeks and 'the rest of us' are during rush, when the guys are off doing there thing and aren't seen by anyone else for a weekend; Sunday evenings, which is when the sororities have their chapter meetings; and the family dinner nights (just sororities, I think), when you can't have dinner with this friend or that friend because they have to have dinner with their Greek family. And socials, though many Greeks bring non-Greek dates.</p>
<p>So, like I said, I don't think it's a big deal if you choose to forgo Greek life. I'm also very involved in theatre, so I have another crowd of friends to hang out with and am generally busy a lot of the time anyway. Most clubs and organizations do tend to plan things as groups and have various things going on, so it's never like you'll be sitting around with nothing to do (and even if you are, go grab friends and go to Cary Town or catch the bus Downtown or to the mall or some such thing!).</p>
<p>SheCallsMe Dad...isn't your D starting at Richmond this month? I thought an earlier post you mentioned she was going there. At this point, too late to worry (and I wouldn't worry anyway!) Seems like the campus is big enough to satisfy a huge variety of interests.....</p>
<p>Appreciate the input! Thanks so much.</p>
<p>You're right, 25. Two weeks from now we'll be packing her stuff up to come to UR. If I had been <em>that</em> concerned about a stifling Greek scene at UR her interest in UR would probably have not have gotten my blessing. However, I do have a "wait and see" approach to the whole Greek thing there (somewhere I think I read that 40-45% of the women at UR pledge?) Let's say I'm "guardedly optimistic" about the social scene there.
Furthermore, my daughter may end up pledging for all I know, which would make all this a moot point for me. I doubt it though: she takes after her dad and is very independent.
I'll just depend on the word of the people who say it will be okay...</p>
<p>I was in a sorority ("ages ago" LOL) but have never been that crazy about D joining.....I remember how superficial it all was......but she says she is interested.....I read in another post you wrote me that your D turned down UNC CH (we are NC residents and she is applying there too) but inasmuch as I know it is a great academic institution, we all agree it is bigger than she wants. She loves the smaller school advantages. UR and W&L (and Wake and Furman) are all perfect sizes.......different in many ways, but so much to offer. I wonder if her decision and preferences will change over the coming months? This is our first time through this!</p>
<p>To 25: My wife graduated from UNC twenty-five years ago. Did I read somewhere that you live in Chapel Hill? Even then she talked about how often TAs taught her classes instead of professors and I'm sure it's not any better today. Though Chapel Hill is a fun place to live (I lived there a year during my last year at Duke grad school) the school is too large for my taste, frankly, as well as my daughter's.</p>
<p>I actually think UNC and Duke have "gone south" some during the past twenty-five years. The Duke lacrosse scandal in which teachers, students and even the University President hung innocent (legally anyway) kids out to dry speaks a lot about the state of affairs at DU--in spite of what the student guide who showed us around Duke said last August. UNC and Duke, in my opinion, are doing their d<em>#@est to be another Ivy League school, one public and one private. The Ivys are more hype than substance in my opinion. UNC and Duke too often remind me of a snotty-nosed kid following around their big brother trying to emulate him as much as he can instead of having the ego strength to be his own person and the best that *he</em> can be, regardless of what anyone else is doing. He could be something <em>better</em> than his big brother, but not as long as he measures his own success by how much he's like his brother. John Wooden once said something like "I don't worry about the other team. I just concentrate on my team executing their plays and being the best they can be and things then tend to take care of themselves" i.e., they win. I hope UR, as it continues to grow in stature, will have a similar mature attitude twenty-five years from now and stays away from the comparison trap. It would be a breath of fresh air in the world of academia if they and numerous other universities followed suit. </p>
<p>I feel for you: the senior year can be a pain for all involved.</p>
<p>Shecallsmedad: great post and I agree with your sentiments. We are transplants to NC and live in the Asheville area, not Chapel Hill. My H can't seem to get over the notion that for under $15K she can attend one of the top universities in the country, and if she chooses UR or W&L, it will easily be $50K a year for us. We won't qualify for financial aid and she wouldn't be at the level of a Richmond Scholar.......so.......we are letting the whole thing mull around for now. Oh and Wake is in the mix, too! Either way, if she goes "non UNC", it will be a tremendous expense for us the next few years, and with siblings following her......more to come!</p>
<p>25, just be aware that requirements for getting into UNC-Chapel Hill are very difficult now. For example, my wife was twenty-something in her class and got in nearly thirty years ago (though she was ED, which helped.) In my daughter's public high school only six kids were accepted. Six. It literally "is not your father (or mother's) UNC anymore." I think the other five kids besides my daughter are matriculating at UNC this month.
The great thing, though, is UNC is definitely not the only great school in N.C. One thing a UR admissions officer admitted to us is that one reason UR doesn't get as many kids from N.C. is because there are so many great schools in the state, many of whom are state-supported. You should look into UNC-Wilmington as well: it's an "up-and-comer", becoming harder to get into as each year goes by. Wilmington is a fantastic place to live also.
Between UR and WF, I personally would prefer UR. I'm from Winston-Salem and it's not the best city in the world--yet people come from all over to live there via WF, which has long amazed me.</p>
<p>shecallsmedad- we're from Winston-Salem as well and our freshman daughter is heading to UR as well!!!! Glad to know there is another gal from hoimetown- maybe they can carpool occasionally!!!!!!</p>
<p>Shecallsmedad, tell me more about WS....what are the issues? We thought it was fine when we visited. And yes, I am well aware of the difficulties of getting in UNC CH, but NOT being from Chapel Hill or Charlotte (we're from near Asheville) does help in the mix. I know a mom who wrote that kids who scored 2200 in their private Charlotte day school did NOT get in.......too much competition from one school. Our D is in boarding school, so I don't know how that is taken into consideration for an in-state resident.....Actually, our D prefers Richmond over WF right now (it changes.....) and I want her to go, spend the night, attend classes, etc in the fall and really make a decision. If she wants to go ED, and if we can get Dad to agree, then I believe she will be all set. One thing she is pondering is whether or not to run XC and at W&L; she met the coach and really liked her, so that one is still in the top three. She wants to wait and see how her season goes (she's Varsity, but not good enough for DI). Actually, we are not stressed and having a pretty good time now that she has a handful of schools she loves. She got her schedule today and is determined to make all As first semester (something we like to hear!)</p>
<p>Jbrown: Actually I was <em>raised</em> near Winston (as you know, that's how you can tell a native--they call it "Winston".) We actually live near Charlotte. I'd be glad to car-pool from Greensboro (the closest to I-85 from you.) I remember going on Facebook once to see how many kids were from N.C. and remember seeing somebody who went to Mt. Tabor (which is a hop,skip and a jump from Wake--people in W-S call WFU "Wake" also, as you know.) Is that your daughter?</p>
<p>W-S has just depended upon tobacco and textiles for too long. It was great while it lasted but...It's an area that's not growing very much also. I've always liked Greensboro better, it just seems to be a more progressive city.
My two cents. For example, when Wake was brought from the little town of Wake Forest over forty years ago, W-S was one of the biggest cities in the state with some of the biggest corporations in the state (RJReynolds, Hanes Hosiery, etc.) Meanwhile, much of N.C. grew while W-S remained relatively stagnant in terms of economic and population growth. In short, the city didn't grow in proportion to Wake, which prospered in W-S. </p>
<p>Long story short: Richmond is not perfect. I remember going to a seminar fifteen years ago at a hotel in downtown Richmond (near the capitol) and there seemed to be a lot of homeless or downtrodden people everywhere. The downtown area really looked run down. I was not impressed with downtown Richmond at all during my stay there. It looks to me that the downtown area has gotten it's act together more. Richmond vs. Winston-Salem? I'll take Richmond anyday, myself. I rarely hear of anyone who used to live in Richmond who has many bad things to say about the city. I just talked with a former Richmond resident today while on business, as a matter of fact, who not only spoke highly of the city but even more of UR. I'll leave an address shortly where the Richmond Chamber of Commerce can send me a check...</p>
<p>I'm not sure if where you're from helps in the mix at all anymore. I know for a fact that UNC used to try to be as fair as they could, taking kids from small towns as well as cities and those in between, trying to be a genuine <em>state</em> school. I don't think where you're from adds up to a hill of beans anymore: it seems now that they just want the "best" students now (their interpretation, not mine.) Remember, I'm not an expert, I'm just reflecting what I think I've seen over the years. </p>
<p>I'll give you a little advice as one who was where you are now a year ago:
R-E-L-A-X. I'm a big believer in the power of the subconscious mind. In my opinion, the great majority of the time your--and your daughter's--subconscious will know where to go long before the more conscious part of your brains will know about it. So, for practical purposes, being preoccupied or stressing any over where to go--especially at this early stage of the game--not only is useless, but can be counter-productive.
You've got a long twelve months ahead of you, but remember: it will all work out and your daughter will know where to go in the end.</p>
<p>P.S. My brother got a full-ride (Hankins Scholar) at Wake so I have no bitterness against Wake. You asked my opinion: I gave it to you. I hope it helps in some way.</p>
<p>shecallmedad- yes! my daughter went to Mount tabor- Nice to know there will be someone going back and forth with her-If we ever need to - yeah G'boro seem slike a great place to link up- We are getting very excited here! I am an alum, so it is fun to think that when she says she'll be going to this building or that, i'll know exactly where she is!!</p>
<p>I really loved the city of Richmond- Carytown, the river, the John Marshall hotel(where Ring Dance was), the Hotel Jefferson, which is turn of the century stunning, the history bleeding out everywhere, Monument Avenue-</p>
<p>Winston :-) is much smaller of course, not nearly as historic feeling, but has a very nice feel nevertheless, easy to get around in, traffic is much better than in Richmond , and the students are well loved in the community( except for the ones who trash the rental houses adjacent to campus!!- we used to live right there next to campus) The neighborhood surrounding Wake is not as elegant as around UR but is a nice established area. </p>
<p>Both campuses suffer from being landlocked- you can't really walk to a drug store, grocery store, etc- it is not Franklin Street in Chapel Hill at all!!!!! I think both schools can be described as being in a bubble for this and probably other reasons</p>
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<blockquote> <blockquote> <p>Both campuses suffer from being landlocked- you can't really walk to a drug store, grocery store, etc- it is not Franklin Street in Chapel Hill at all!!!!! I think both schools can be described as being in a bubble for this and probably other reasons<<<</p> </blockquote> </blockquote>
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<p>Well, at least it's a nice bubble...I can think of a lot worse things than "being in a bubble." </p>
<p>D was also very interested in going to Boston U. or New York U., both of which are in very intriguing parts of town. I think she was really as much enamored with the possibility of living in those places as she was with going to school there. I don't know if some kids realize that being a tourist in a city and being a student are two different things altogether, or how much time their studies are going to take.</p>
<p>About W-S: it's not a bad place to live, of course. And a lot of people new to the town seem to enjoy living there.Let's just say that I spent over 20 years of my life in and around W-S and I've enjoyed living in other places more...</p>
<p>I find it interesting that your daughter is following your lead at UR. My D has had a different response: she didn't want to go to Duke or UNC. She wants to plot her own path. I think that what your D is doing speaks well of UR?</p>
<p>I personally find most interesting a comparison between D and her great-something grandfather. In the year 1700, as a twenty-three year old he landed with several others just across the James River from UR. He was with, I believe, the first group of Huguenots to settle acrosss the river from what is now Richmond. He and the others who sailed from France via England were led to believe they would get to settle in the Jamestown/Newport News area, but were told to "keep on going up the James river." Turns out that they were used as a buffer between the native Americans and the settlement near the mouth of the James. I wonder what he would have thought about his great-something granddaughter going to a university (where there were just wilderness then) just across the river almost exactly 308 years later as, let's face it as parents, she begins a new life?</p>
<p>my daughter looked at all kinds of schools but pretty soon figured out that she would thrive better in a smaller environment. SHe got into Chapel Hill ( as a backup- not an academic backup but as a 'type of school 'backup'). She would have gone to WFU had it not been in Winston-Salem- she was ready to spread her wings a little! - She wanted to have an addventure and ataying in WS would not accomplish that for her.</p>
<p>--She really liked Elon ( and the Honors Fellows dorm!!!!) I thought she would choose Elon; she did back to back overnights at Elon and Richmond- Richmond won out- I think it was a great discussion/mtg we had with the 'quintessential' professor type at UR who got her very excited about International Relations ( Dr. Gordon)- as well as sitting on 'Boatwright beach' on a wonderul spring afternoon</p>
<p>She loved the size of Richmond- her parameters were :larger than her highschool( 1600) but smaller than 5000. She loved the smaller class size. She loved the walkability of the campus- It felt like the right size to her. She loved how beautiful the campus is( not too many ugly 70's buildings!!). I think the fact that I went there was not really a factor( other than I knew to show it to her- as has been mentioned UR is not well known in the South)</p>
<p>; but she did respond to it feeling like it had been there for a while.--it felt historical.</p>
<p>I said to her, You know there is no pressure to pick Richmond just b/c I went there. She said, "oh I know. That wouldn't have mattered to me at all. I wouldn't have chosen it just to please you!!"</p>
<p>so Richmond stands on its own merits!!</p>