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<p>Already there bud.
That attitude isn’t really going to serve you well at MSU (assuming you mean in Michigan). We don’t like to look down on people for being idealistic. Just a friendly warning ;)</p>
<p>Actually, there is. It’s called human nature.</p>
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Enlighten me: What, exactly, is human nature, and how is it opposed to Socialism and Communism?</p>
<p>I is secret Federal Agent. Taking names and IP addresses of all ya’lls.</p>
<p>I’m not talking about socialism. I’m talking about Communism (and anarchism and every other wingnut theory that no one over 25 seriously considers).</p>
<p>Do you know why Communism doesn’t work? It’s simple. People are motivated by incentives, whether they be social, moral, or economic. There is not enough incentive to work in a Communist state. There is no social promotion or monetary gain for working harder. Humans naturally default to their own self-interest. Sorry, it’s just a biological fact. You will always look out for your own self-interest (for example, why would you want Communism unless you believe that it will give you some gain, i.e. help your guilt towards your affluence).</p>
<p>I could go on and on about economics, politics, and all the other reasons why Communism doesn’t work, but I won’t. Simply put, Communism has failed in practice. On a large scale, it will never work. Sorry.</p>
<p><em>uses proxy</em></p>
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<p>idk about you, but I wouldn’t have any desire for money unless I needed it to pay for things (like college). If everything is community shared, there’s no need for greed. Furthermore, the vast majority lack money that the minority possess, so of course they will want more of it. If everything is equal it becomes moot</p>
<p>But it doesn’t. Society grinds to a halt, because people will not work when it won’t provide them some benefit. I’m not going to work hard if I get the same thing whether or not I actually do work. I mean, come on people, this is simple logic we are talking about here.</p>
<p>But it does provide benefit, because the common good becomes the good of the individual. Of course you wouldn’t work an actual job for free because other people rake in the profits, but if you are working because it needs to be done for your own good and everyone’s good, you’ll do it</p>
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<p>Wrong. This is simple conditioned behavior that we are talking about. You have been raised in a society where you are taught that the harder you work, the more you’ll have (which is generally false BTW, but that’s a different issue). If you had been conditioned to do what was best for the COMMUNITY rather than YOURSELF then you would have a different opinion. </p>
<p>Basic psych.</p>
<p>^ I concur</p>
<p>Not really, sorry. i have empirical evidence on my side (USSR, China, Cuba, North Korea). You have small communities that don’t register a blip on the international level.</p>
<p>The common good does not become the will of the individual, because the individual realizes that on a large scale, if he does nothing, he will gain the same as if he did anything.</p>
<p>that’s why communism only works on a small scale. A commune of four hundred people can thrive because there’s an incentive to work hard for the benefit of the community. A country with millions of people can’t achieve this because the faceless mass of the “community” doesn’t exactly motivate one to work hard. productivity goes down, people take advantage of the system, yadda yadda yadda</p>
<p>Basically, communism only works with distinct social returns.</p>
<p>^ Exactly what I was trying to say :)</p>
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There are several reasons why someone would work for a Communist system. Ensuring that no one (including oneself and one’s family) need be poor is a pretty powerful motivator. As is working together and taking pride in human achievement. If humanity was united in a just system, it could finally turn from its petty squabbles to exploration and scientific advances, as well as a focus on developing culture. As for moral reasons, that greatly depends on the principles of the society people are raised in. A Communist society would raise children to believe that human life, liberty, and equality were of paramount importance, and that it was the duty of all people to work together for a better world. There would surely be some to disagree, but that is more prevalent now, with many of the poor becoming disaffected from the capitalist system. As for “my affluence”, I am poor by US standards, though that usually means better off than most of the world’s poor (aside from those in social democracies). My views were not shaped by guilt, but by personal experience, and observing the suffering of those around me, as well as the behavior of the affluent.</p>
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Really? Please cite an example of where a world-scale system of democratic government and economy where the means of production are controlled by the workers has been tried and failed.</p>
<p>You say Communism will never work, but you offer paltry “evidence” to support that statement.</p>
<p>I will now apply your arguments to democracy:</p>
<p>(1) Why would people stand to live in a democratic society? It just goes against human nature to gain as much for yourself as possible. Why would anyone live in a democracy when they could be King? (Oh, is it that they were raised to believe that it is morally right and take pride in their rights?)</p>
<p>(2) Before modern democracies/republics, there was no evidence that large scale democracy would ever work. Athens had fallen, and the Roman “Republic” was corrupt and devolved into Empire, while the few people who stood for the rights of the poor (such as the Brothers Gracchi) were killed by those who wanted to seize power for themselves.</p>
<p>If you lived before the advent of modern democracy, would you believe this? It fits your arguments, and it would be wrong.</p>
<p>^^Unless you could humanize the masses… if the ordinary person saw their country as their community… but that would require a level of reconditioning that would be beyond most massive countries [but you could maybe get it to work in, say, albania]</p>
<p>No, because democracy benefits the average citizen. Getting a say in it’s leaders is in one’s own personal benefit.</p>
<p>And yes, Communism has been tried. Beggars can’t be choosers as to how it inevitably becomes. Laissez Faire Capitalism works perfectly too if it is run as it is supposed to, but it isn’t. You have to examine the real world scenario, not the best possible result. So once again, Communism has failed every time it has been tried on a large scale.</p>
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Hey, just because you’re greedy and self-interested doesn’t mean everyone is.</p>
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None of those are Communist. They called themselves Socialist and Communist to win over the people, but they were just dictatorships. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was as Socialist as it was made of Republics. And I suppose you believe that the People’s Republic of China is really a People’s Republic? Please, don’t buy into Soviet propaganda. Anyway, state communism probably wouldn’t work out. It’s meant to be a world system.</p>
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And never having to worry about starving in the street if you get injured or being exploited for labor is in one’s personal benefit as well. You may not like it as well as being the richest person in the world, but I bet there are some people who would rather be king than just another voter. Yet here we are, in a democracy.</p>