<p>My daughter is Chinese and went to elementary school in Chinatown and middle school on the Lower East Side where a plurality of the students is Chinese.</p>
<p>This is the first time she’s met South Asian kids and she appreciates the diversity.</p>
<p>The current principal of Brooklyn Tech is Randy Asher, who used to teach at the school and then was the founding priincipal of the High School of Math, Science and Engineering at City College (HSMSE). Last year two or three of his assistant principals were appointed as principals of good schools, including the HSMSE. Of course there’s plenty of complaining about him among the faculty but no where near the problem as with his predecessor, Lee McCaskill.</p>
<p>Brooklyn Tech has a much higher percentage of students eligible for free and reduced-price lunch (about 60 percent) than Stuyvesant or Bronx Science. But the PTA and the alumni association do a great job supporting students in this time of awful budget cuts to schools in NYC and elsewhere. Still, it’s not the kind of school community that can raise the amounts of money generated by the PTAs at Stuy or BxSci.</p>
<p>It’s true that kids should have the smarts to make it, one way or another. That, at a certain point, the game is theirs to win or lose, based on their own efforts, a good plan and sensible decisions/actions.</p>
<p>That is, to me, entirely different than saying that, from day one, kids should be left adrift, to “sink or swim,” regardless of their familiarity with the processes and environment- and that this especially applies to kids getting good finaid. The suppport a kid gets is often critical to learning the ropes, moving forward. We coach freshman athletes, don’t we? Someone’s paying that salary and the related expenses. So, why expect every 18 year old, fresh from home life, to miraculously “get it.” </p>
<p>Patriot, I just think the way you wrote your position leaves many questions.</p>
<p>I do not condone how Emory’s office of FA handled this, but these paragraphs caught my eye
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<p>So on the one hand posters insist that once a person becomes 18 they are an adult and must self advocate, and on the other hand berate the institution for not holding their hand because they might not have the skills to do so? Where do we draw the line? How do we decide who MUST have hand holding vs who is offered it but, for whatever reason, doesn’t take it (she admits she was late to respond, didnt follow up with offers of emotional support 'til there were not appointments available, etc)? Seems like we are talking out of both sides of our mouth. They are either adults, and need to own responsibility, or they are not. If she needed help filling out forms, she should have asked for it. </p>
<p>Students “inadvertently” forget to submit information or submit it too late, whether it be during the application process or later. There are consequences.</p>
<p>“that there be MORE support provided to these students than what it is provided to the general population.” </p>
<p>That does not mean I do not think there should be any support services on campus. Just that whatever is available should not be specially tailored for one segment of the population. I am not sure why that statement would be controversial.</p>
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<p>The flaw is that you are reading something in my posts that does not exist. </p>
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<p>NO!!! A thousand times.</p>
<p>The STUDENTS HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO SUCCEED. </p>
<p>This has nothing to do with students of any one SES.</p>
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<p>Universities do not fail students. Students fail. The responsibility is on the individual to do what he needs to do to succeed NOT the other way around.</p>
<p>I also noticed the bolded part of the quote. There are people who lie on their financial aid forms, just as some people lie on their taxes. It’s OK for colleges to question what families submit, but if they are basing their financial aid decisions on assumptions that conflict with that family said, they should write a letter to that effect and let the family dispute their assumptions. </p>
<p>If the IRS thinks what you submitted is wrong, they send you a letter flagging the incorrect items and do not just reduce the amount of your refund without explanation.</p>
<p>Emory is not the IRS. And this is a good thing. The student doesnt have to answer to Emory the way a taxpayer has to answer to the IRS. Didnt the article say she had been sent 17 emails to an email address she didnt access? Most students know that they have a campus email address. And if they don’t initially, they usually quickly learn from other students or their professors, who usually communicate via campus email. </p>
<p>The way this student found out about this is because she had given a reporter permission to access her files. That seems like a big help, I would think. While Emory’s stance, per this article, is that they cannot/will not adjust things retroactively, I am guessign they will review her file with her and discuss options should she return.</p>
<p>So is that the entirety of your argument? Because it sucks. </p>
<p>None of those are equivalent. You have no ability to put yourself into a ADCOM preference group, but you do have the ability to have a gift card or get airline miles. Someone could get a airline travel benefit but they arent getting the same thing as you with a full price seat. You get booking preferences, get to board earlier and get the pick of seats. For the most part they are flying standby and are subject to bumping. And they cant get prime time flights.</p>
<p>Thats old news, Beliavsky, and not relevant. What a massive overgeneralization. The Admissions office and the FA office are different departments. Don’t damn the whole school. Unless you have some proof that there is some school policy or culture to be dishonest, let that go.</p>
Says who? How do you know that they aren’t getting help. It skeeves me when some family/relative of an airline employee gets to fly non-rev (ie free) and often gets put in first class, and the frequent fliers with a gazillion travelling miles (from paid for tickets) can’t get an upgrade they are entitled to. </p>
<p>My point is that there are often lots of behind the scenes help/benefits that the so-called “little person” (for lack of a better term) is able to get.</p>
<p>My D’s top-10 LAC has some kind of program - I’m not certain of the details as it doesn’t apply to my daughter - where admitted students who come from more impoverished backgrounds / schooling get some kind of intensive tutoring program before school starts. I’m ok with it. Why wouldn’t I be? I suppose I could sit there and “resent” it but why, again?</p>
<p>The non-rev flyers do fly on a space-available basis, although they have access to actual passenger loads so that they can know which flights they can stand by for with good chance of success.</p>
<p>That is correct, ucbalum. They can easily check the schedule to see what flights they can likely get on. But we HAVE seen them get primo seats when platinum fliers have not gotten the upgrade they should have. The gate agents dont always follow the rules.</p>
<p>An athletic trainer for student athletes is specially tailored for one segment of the population. The study-abroad center is specially tailored for one segment of the population. Wheelchair ramps are specially tailored for one segment of the population. Theater dressing rooms are specially tailored for one segment of the population. Why does it matter so much to you?</p>
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<p>I said the college has an obligation to SUPPORT them and HELP them succeed. Speaking of putting words in one’s mouth. If you found out your child’s professor refused to speak with him outside of class–when he sought out support–would you be angry? What if you had expected him to have career counseling as a junior or senior, but then the school fired the career counselor and didn’t replace her? Or how about if the college just cancelled the shuttle service from the airport after winter break and said “you’re on your own”? Would you place the entire burden of success on your child?</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, I don’t have a problem with some upfront academic tutoring if they know that the low SES student has a few gaps here & there. But, when it gets to the hand-holding stage–much like a parent would do (and I did with my own )–you know, the “OK, you need to get this in by such-and-such a time, and don’t forget this…”, well, then I have a problem with school resources being spent on that, just to achieve a diverse student body. As I said upthread, if the school has a checklist of things to be done for admission, let the student do it on his/her own, at least have a little responsibility & skin in the game in return for the deep discount on the tuition.</p>
That makes them an athletic supporter Sorry, old joke.</p>
<p>To clarify my post above, I was responding to the comment that airline employees are subject to bumping and cant get good seats. Thats incorrect. Airline employees flying non-rev are flying on space available. Only people who have confirmed tickets can be “bumped”. The others are flying if available. But those “available” seats have at times managed to be in first class. Not too shabby.</p>
<p>I still wonder, how much outreach should a school do? I totally agree that schools should have resources to help those who are needing the extra guidance and support, whether it be because they come from disadvantaged homes or are needing the resources available in the Department of Disability Services. I do think that information should be provided at freshman orientation about ALL the services available, and outreach should be made to students identified for whatever reason as needing assistance/direction. But at what point can one assume the school has made a good faith effort to reach out to students who do not follow up with resources available to them?</p>
<p>There have been several articles about the intensive tutoring in the English language that some internationals get before starting their freshman year in the US (these are articles that are about the fraudulent applications from some internationals). Even if their admission was arrived at via someone ghostwriting their essays and fudging their grades and LORs, does that truly guarantee that they “dont belong there”? Tough call.</p>
If you found out your child’s professor refused to speak with him outside of class–when he sought out support–would you be angry? What if you had expected him to have career counseling as a junior or senior, but then the school fired the career counselor and didn’t replace her? Or how about if the college just cancelled the shuttle service from the airport after winter break and said “you’re on your own”? Would you place the entire burden of success on your child?</p>
)–you know, the “OK, you need to get this in by such-and-such a time, and don’t forget this…”, well, then I have a problem with school resources being spent on that, just to achieve a diverse student body. As I said upthread, if the school has a checklist of things to be done for admission, let the student do it on his/her own, at least have a little responsibility & skin in the game in return for the deep discount on the tuition.</p>