<p>I just want your opinion. And I'm bored in Asia...so here goes.</p>
<p>I'm an undergrad at (HYSP) with a 3.71 GPA and a 170 LSAT.</p>
<p>I do have soft factors, but all of them are about socioeconomic diversity.</p>
<p>I'm a third-generation millworker (worked in a sawmill after high school, just like my pappy and grandpappy) and a first-generation college student. I've been through eviction (during the summer before junior year) and a host of family debacles that I will likely never reveal to anyone (unless it's on the Springer Show). More to the point, I (not my parents) paid for 25 thousand dollars of my education through summer/academic year jobs. I have no ECs or volunteer hours. I do have three years of 20 hour workweeks during the term and ridiculous overtime in the summers.</p>
<p>I can also read Classical Chinese (took the one year core). Though I'm not sure if that's a soft factor.</p>
<p>I've also worked (this is just for fun) as a lift operator, ski instructor, snowmaker, salesman, dishwasher, and carpet cleaner.</p>
<p>So...what do you think I should mention in the statement? Obviously I'm not going to play up the smaltzy factors (the horrors I could tell, but won't), but should I make an attempt to point out the ridiculous working class credentials I possess? I'm not an URM, but I think that there must be some sort of prize for being disadvantaged and not the right skin color for AA.</p>
<p>I'm asking this because I didn't use the socioeconomic hook when I applied to undergrad (it never occurred to me that a millworker might be a somewhat rare find at HYSP; shockingly enough, I don't think I've met a single poor person on campus.) So...should I mention this stuff? Do you think it'll make a difference.</p>
<p>I'm wistfully thinking of HLS or YLS, but I think that's a pretty big stretch.</p>
<p>IMO- I think soft factors only come into play when your LSAT/GPA fall within the 25%-75% stats. I think the 3.71/ 170 combo put you in that range for most of the T-6 schools (and maybe HY too).
so working class credentials, degree from HYSP, first generation college student and a great personal statement may be the ticket. My gut feeling tells me you have a great shot at columbia, nyu and chicago too. And probably some scholarship possibilities at the other T-14’s.
HYS as well as other top law schools is a crapshoot for anyone- but you might as well go for it!
You seem to have an interesting background- a little shmaltz (?) in your PS may be ok too.<br>
as I’m telling my own kid- it’s time to start crafting that Personal statement- the applications should be available sometime next month.
Good luck.</p>
<p>The only thing I have is an interesting background. Well that and a pair of Libtechs.</p>
<p>I’ve been writing personal statements for about a year now, off and on. I’m crafting a different essay for every law school, so I have one completely finished draft (Yale) and six more that need at least one more polishing draft.</p>
<p>The Berkeley essay is giving me a headache. Four pages feels like an invitation to narcissism.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son. Good luck to all of us. May the admission gods be kind.</p>
<p>You will certainly not be the only applicant to top law schools that comes from a working class background, nor will you be the only first generation college grad to apply. That said, I would not recommend writing a personal statement touting your working class credentials merely for the sake of spelling out the fact that you are who you are. Instead, if you can find some way to show how your background and your experiences have influenced who you are today, the challenges you have overcome and the manner in which you intend to use these life experiences to color the person you will become while in law school and beyond, then it might be worthwhile to discuss your background.</p>
<p>In my opinion, using your working class background as some kind of soft factor that you hope will influence an admissions decision in and of itself is a mistake.</p>
<p>from what I hear about the berkley application, it just gives you the option to write 4 pages. Many successful Berkley applicants (from what I’ve seen on TLS website) have been admitted with much shorter Personal statements (the usual 2 to 3 pages) so I don’t think it’s necessary to go the full 4 pages- unless you really feel the need.<br>
As you’ve been working on your PS for over a year, you probably know what works and what doesn’t.<br>
Your basic stats, HYSP pedigree and a solid personal statement will take you far.
Good luck.</p>
<p>I disagree with Sally somewhat on this one. There aren’t a heck of a lot of working class kids at YHS law schools. Most of the recent grads I’ve personally met who are from working class backgrounds did not attend schools like HYPS undergrad–they went to CC while working full time (sometimes while serving in the military) and went to schools further down in the US News rankings. The few exceptions I know are URMs.</p>
<p>I don’t claim to have done a comprehensive survey, of course, but that’s just my impression. </p>
<p>I would weave it into your PS. I wouldn’t do it along the lines of “I’ve been poor so feel sorry for me and take me,” but rather write about how your background has influenced your decision to go to law school or the kind of lawyer you want to be–unless, of course, it’s just convinced you to go for the highest paying job you can get! </p>
<p>If you go to H, try talking to your law tutor to get some help with your PS. I’d also suggest that you PM Hanna, a frequent poster on this site. (Don’t everyone do this–I just think that in this PARTICULAR case, Hanna might have some suggestions.) </p>
<p>I agree that there aren’t a ton of kids from working class backgrounds at top law schools. All I was saying is that there are certainly more than a few there, and that the OP would certainly not be alone.</p>
<p>Also, since Berkeley and Michigan don’t do race-based affirmative action anymore, their applications ask for a lot of socioeconomic details–they use them as proxies for other forms of diversity. So you may benefit from that.</p>
<p>I’m definitely not going the I’m-poor-feel-sorry-for-me route. That was initially why I was so hesitant to bring it up at all. If I wrote something like that my Dad would justifiably slap me. Self-pity doesn’t fly in my family.</p>
<p>I’m writing about it from multiple angle, but I think the most cogent argument that I bring is that my background allows me to approach social issues with a more nuanced point of view. Most people who get involved with class issues, at least at my university, tend to view the working class as a monolithic entity with many ascribed qualities that may or may not be present. From my perspective, it was helpful to use my background as a legitimacy factor. No one can say, “You don’t understand what it’s like” or “If you had ever [list some ridiculous experience that must somehow convey the entirety of class complexities].”</p>
<p>Just for the record, exploding the pathos-ridden arguments of people uncomfortable with their cushion of privilege is a rare pleasure. Corporations are not inherently evil. Working class people can be lazy and a number of them do find ways to game the welfare/unemployment system. Working class people are just as complex and varied as any other group of people.</p>
<p>Obviously I don’t think a working class background alone qualifies me for law school, but it has negatively affected my ability to post a respectable GPA and participate in ECs. I’m not looking for admission based on an essay, I just want them to understand where I’m coming from, the very real obstacles I overcame, and the kind of person it made me.</p>
<p>To be perfectly frank, I think my mill background was an asset once I adjusted to the college rhythm. If my university is any example, there’s a great number of people wandering around elite universities with a basic disconnect from a nuts-and-bolts reality. I’m trying to present the image of someone equally comfortable with abstract material and pragmatic concerns.</p>
<p>I think the thread has been helpful, so thank you to everyone who posted. It’s a roadmap that basically aligns with the do’s and don’ts I conceived of before hand. I was worried because my writing has been done in isolation (surrounded by non-English speakers in a foreign land and also by a large number of potsmokers who were equally unhelpful) and I didn’t want to show up to an advisor with PS’s that were fundamentally flawed.</p>
<p>-For the record, I don’t smoke pot, but an ungodly number of my friends do.</p>
<p>good luck to you. let us know how it all works out. </p>
<p>As Stacy mentioned-- It looks like some of the applications definitely have a spot in which you can share information regarding socio-economic background, diversity etc. and definitely not come across “I’m poor feel sorry for me route”. So keep that in mind as it may be better to get the info out in the diversity statement format rather than your personal statement. </p>
<p>You’ve been working on your PS for about a year? Geez- I think my daughter is just awakening to the fact that the applications will be available within the next few weeks- and is beginning to get her thoughts in order.</p>
<p>I’m actually not applying this upcoming cycle. And possibly not the next cycle either, if I land a Teach for America gig. I think I’ve generated over fifty-sixty pages of text now. Most of the essays I wrote for the PS ended up turning into short narratives. It was a good way for me to come to turns with who I am and I have a much better handle I what I want to write now. Law school is a very long term deal for me, I probably won’t start for at least three years. (Another year of UG and then, hopefully, two years of TFA.)</p>
<p>just copied some 2009 applications for my d. as she is finally thinking about putting together an “application package”. I think the crafting of the application package, can be abit more time consuming than one might expect.
anyhow - this is what NYU stated in its Optional Additional Information section:</p>
<p>“Information that has been helpful in the past includes, but is not limited to, descriptions or documentation of disabilities, a detailed history of standardized test results, unusual circumstances which may have affected academic performance/family history of educational or socio-economic disadvantage. This list is not all-inclusive, but we offer it for you to think about as you consider whether such information might be relevant in your case, and to assure you that including it is quite appropriate.” </p>
<p>Looking at the various applications I’m noticing a few things- the application process itself may be more time consuming than I would have thought. And schools really do want some insight into the applicant. They are asking for a bit more detail than just LSAT/GPA.<br>
New applications should be out in a few weeks- so soon the fun begins!!</p>
<p>I loved writing essays for NYU. There wasn’t a page limit to worry over so I just wrote until I came up with something I liked. Ironically, it ended up being only a few lines longer than two pages.</p>
<p>I’ve glanced through some of the applications and I agree that the process looks time consuming. For me the biggest time sink has been researching the schools. I’m crafting a separate essay for each school and I wanted to be able to creditably write about their resources and why I would fit well there.</p>
<p>The more that I’ve gone through the process the more I’ve fallen in love with the schools outside HYS (though if I got into any of the three you can bet I’d go). NYU is one of my favorites. (I haven’t found anything truly exciting about Columbia for some reason).</p>
<p>I’m probably opening a can of worms, but what do you mean exactly? Does this word suggest a certain fly-by-night attitude that find unacceptable? (I’m fumbling in the dark here, because I’m not exactly certain what you’re trying to get at.)</p>
<p>I rescind my comment. I don’t want to get into a fruitless discussion over a word I spent a millisecond selecting. It was not apropos. TFA will reverse every educational flaw there is. The end.</p>