<p>Hey everyone! I've just entered 12th, I got a 90% in class 10, but I chose the Arts stream. My SAT score was 2160 (760 - CR, 760 - Math, 640 - Writing). I need financial aid and since I come from an academically overachieving family, 2160 was a 'screw up' according to my parents and they didn't let me give the SAT again in 11th.They're the sort for whom a 90% was 'a major disappointment'. But then again, I messed up in 11th and got a 77%, so I can't quite blame them.
I'm aware that academically I'm average. But, with regards to my ECs in the past 2 years, I've won 5 debates, 2 theater competitions, 4 Model UNs, a quiz and a essay competition. Most were at the inter-school level and I'll be participating in national & international competitions this year. I plan to continue with all my ECs in 12th. I also know that I'll get a good appointment in school. So my queries are these:-</p>
<p>Can my ECs make up for my earlier high school performance if I do well in 12th?
Do I have a chance for financial aid from a top university?
How important is the Writing section? Do I need to give SAT I again?
Is doing any form of community service necessary (cause I've got zilch there)?
Should I give World History or Literature? Do the reference books cover the history course in its entirety?</p>
<p>I know that I've written a hell of a lot and I have tons of questions, but I've really got no one to seek definitive counsel from. So, I'd really appreciate it if someone could clear any of my doubts. Please post if you can answer even one query. Thanks!</p>
<p>Your marks are taken in comparison with the rest of your class. It depends on how you rank in your class. In my class 77 would place you in the top. So its not all bad. That said, ECs are uber-important. Do as many ECs as you can. It helps a lot.</p>
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It depends on your whole “package”. Apply to all top universities, you never what can happen! But remember to apply to a few safety colleges as well.</p>
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Writing is not important, but again this changes from college to college. A good score will never harm you. An abysmal one might. But yours lies in the OK range. If you are confident that you can improve your score then convince your parents to let you give it again.</p>
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How does your ECs stand? If you are involved in many clubs, student government, sports etc. Then do a little. If not then do a lot. But do some atleast. Colleges like to see if you’ve given back to society in some way.</p>
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Give both! You’ve got enough time to study and most “top” universities need 2 or 3 different subject tests. Since you’ve taken arts, taking the science Subject tests will be difficult. So your choice of tests has dwindled considerably. But by taking arts, you’ve separated yourself from the stereotypical Indian kid who is a science nerd. That will help you a lot. It was a good move.</p>
<p>Whoa you are the first Humanities Indian I’ve ever seen on CC. :D</p>
<p>Can my ECs make up for my earlier high school performance if I do well in 12th?
They know that marks generally go down in 11, most Indians’ do. But do brilliantly in 12. And yeah, ECs are important, but they don’t make up for anything, they give you an edge.</p>
<p>Do I have a chance for financial aid from a top university?
Sure, but it’s hard for anybody. So make sure you apply to other schools, including ones that give plenty of merit aid!</p>
<p>How important is the Writing section? Do I need to give SAT I again?
Writing is very important for the top, needblind schools, not so much for the others. If you’re sure your scores won’t go down go ahead!</p>
<p>Is doing any form of community service necessary (cause I’ve got zilch there)?
Do something, yes. </p>
<p>Should I give World History or Literature? Do the reference books cover the history course in its entirety?
Yeah, give both! Most schools that require SAT IIs require II. And yep, World History is adequately covered, but make sure you buy 2 books. I recommend Kaplan to study and then Pton Review for reference work. That’s what I did for US History.</p>
<p>SATs:
First of all your SAT score is not a disappointment. Your CR + M (which is the part that matters most) is a decent 1520/1600. While the Writing subscore is not as important as the others, you should realize that if you improve that bit your score would jump to something in late 2200’s to even above 2300. Never underestimate the power of retakes. I scored a modest 2140 in my first take. I retook this Jan and scored 2320 - a jump that takes you from the 25th to above the 75th percentile of accepted students at top universities. Bottom line: Cheer up, slog and retake.</p>
<p>As for Subject Tests, check the curve. Incase you don’t know yet, getting 15 questions wrong on Physics might still get you an 800. I think world history is similar. Since the syllabus is quite different, I suggest you think openly about which tests you’re going to take. I loved Bio so even though I took up Commerce in the 11th standard, I scraped it up and took the Biology Test. Think over this one. Surf collegeboard and sparknotes about it.</p>
<p>School marks:
Realize that school marks all over the country are not standardized. My average would be in mid seventies but my rank tells a different, (fortunately much better) story. Just focus on your rank. That is the ultimate indicator of academic performance in school. Stay in the top 3 if not 1% and you’re clear on the transcript side. As you start with the twelfth, keep grades up. Your transcript/report card should be interpreted as determined improvement not callousness (even if at a high level of academic achievement). The 90% in tenth (which I’m assuming to be board marks) neither hurt nor help so don’t worry about that bit. You can’t improve your previous marks now but it would be foolish to give up on applying just because of that. Perhaps your increased participation in ECs caused that dip but you later recuperated (this is the idea you need to convey).</p>
<p>ECs:
I’m sure you’ll find this advice all over CC but that doesn’t make it less true. Depth over Breadth! If Debating this your thing the do that, you don’t need to go about doing token amount of social service (which out of college context, I believe you should do ) to impress an admissions officer. Number of competitions doesn’t matter as much as the level of achievement does. To put it in crude terms, national level debating is probably better than 2 state level competitions in the same. If you are passionate about your ECs then colleges will expect you to be consistent about indulging in them more and more. Do this: download the common app form and look at the activities page. Think about what you want that to look like and what kind of person you want to be (super debate speaker or student interested in international issues or actor who can quiz his way through) and reverse engineer your year plan from there. Once again: While you don’t want to come across as too narrow, mastering some ECs is better than being a jack of many.</p>
<p>Consistency:
About 15 kids from my batch at school took the SAT, but only 3 of us actually applied. If you’ve taken the trouble to get a good score and the US dream is what you want to live - follow through! The trouble with most Indian parents is that they’re unaware of what exactly this whole deal is which makes them unsure about it. Keep your parents in the picture. Tell them what you know and keep them in the loop. Show them what books you’re now going to use and how you are going to get a great new score. As long as they’re confident about what you’re doing, I’m sure they want the best for their kid.</p>
<p>Your chances:
You seem to be the staple qualified Indian applicant. From here, it all comes down to how you make yourself stand out. Writing matters ALOT. Start early on your applications. Best of luck. Hope this helps.</p>
<p>this is the best advice. Depth == Passion => you are not doing it just for college admission. Applicable to all applicants, not just international.</p>
<p>I have a similar background to that of nban’s</p>
<p>The issue in question is that I really messed up my 11th (I got a 61%), because I focused only on IIT and AIEEE. I did well in the 9th and 10th grade. My rank is 10/36 in the 11th grade.</p>
<p>My 11th grades will be a black spot in my application. How do I explain to the universities that I didn’t perform well because all I did was focus on my entrance examinations?</p>
<p>Make your GC explain it in her rec. Subtly, like “anirudhh is normally a brilliant student but went down a little in 11 because he was studying for super-important out-of-school test” blablabla.</p>
<p>And yes, passion is definitely important.</p>
<p>Good luck, you 15-ers! I can’t believe we’re being replaced already xD.</p>
<p>Quasi’s right. Have your counsellor put it in the reco. That’s most credible. Otherwise it might seem like your giving an excuse. It worked for someone I know. He phrased it as 'extra classes in Science that were beyond the school syllabus"</p>
<p>NoHandleBars gives some good advice. The first piece of advice I would give immediately is re-take the SAT, no doubt. Most people think that if your score goes down you are hurt. That is completely false. Schools look at your best score, regardless of when you get it. I know Brown admissions officers and they take the best scores from multiple tests to make your composite. To use myself as an example, I got a 740 M 630 V (I was back when it was out of 1600). I studied the verbal and in the next test got a 720 M 730 V. Even though my math went down it didn’t matter because they took the math from the earlier test, so my final score for applying was 1470 (I also got in to both Ivies I applied to).</p>
<p>Next, I can definitively say that EC’s do not replace good grades. Grades are the most important indicator to schools and they cannot be substituted. However, being from a foreign school you have the opportunity to paint a picture of your academic environment. Colleges care the most that you took advantage of the academic opportunites available and did well - that you challenged yourself. The advice by QuasiProfound to have your GC write about you is solid because the note from your GC sets the tone for your academic environment.</p>
<p>Finally, the depth over beadth is the same advice I always give. It will be a huge red flag if you start logging volunteer hours the fall of your 12th when you’ve never done it before; nothing screams of sucking up to the application more! Stick with your passions. I don’t worry over this with you based on what you’ve said but I will mention it anyway. It is good to have depth but some people can over do it. I interviewed some applicants to Brown this year and some of them were so narrow it hurt their ability to engage me. All their answers were either about their instrument or about physics or whatever and they were not able to maintain a conversation unless it was about that one thing. NOT GOOD. I was not impressed and I doubt the Admissions department will be either. </p>
<p>Your arts background is indeed an edge because NONE of the top colleges want robots (an unfortunate stereotype of Indian students that exists in the US). These colleges are looking for smart people but also people who can contribute to the campus environment.</p>
<p>With regards to financial aid, US schools are notorious for not being overly generous with foreigners. Schools with large endowments are your best bet and focus on schools with Need Blind admissions.</p>
<p>I hope that helps. Shoot me a mail if you want more detail.</p>
<p>Wow, that cleared up a lot of my doubts! NoHandlebars, your advice seems to be excellent. I’ll give the SAT in June and the subject tests in october - namely literature, math 2 and either world history or biology. I’ll just slog hard to bring my class rank up and stick to what I’m passionate about. I researched on aid, and though the chances appear minuscule, I take hope from the fact that 5 of my seniors have got aid at Ivies.
On another note, FatEnvelopeGuy, QuasiProfound and bigcheese, you guys have no idea how good it feels to read that taking the Arts stream gives me an edge and seems to be a wise move, since I’ve received a fair bit of flak for no valid reason from various quarters. So for some prudent advice and a confidence boost, Thank you!!!</p>
<p>nban92, please tell me you’ve taken Math in plus two. I don’t want to discourage you, but it really hurts if you don’t have the curricular requirements-three to four years of Math and at least two years of Science from Class 9 onwards. While it’s great, you’ve taken Humanities (proud Humanities lover)-don’t lose out on Math, if you can.</p>
<p>Paradox7 raises a good point. It is great to be humanities and arts but make sure you have the basics under your belt. Generally, you are looking at 4 years of Math, 3 years of science (Bio, Chem, Physics, Stat, Geo, etc.) with two being lab, 4 years of literature, 3-4 years of a foreign language (probably doesn’t apply to foreign students who already know two), and 2 years of history (for American students, one is preferred to be American history).</p>
<p>Paradox7, I do have math. Though I’m not fond of math, I’ve always averaged in the 80s and above, so I figured it would be severely limiting and idiotic not to take math especially since the one subject I adore is economics. I have english, math, economics, political science and psychology. FatEnvelopeGuy, I had a few queries about the official transcript, namely -
How is the class rank calculated? Is it out of the total graduating class, the total number of students in arts or the number of people in the section?
Within the subjects recommended for study, would science include psychology?
Does the overall percentage of each high school year replace the GPA? If so, is there a percentage that I should be looking to aim at i.e. is there a percentage which would be considered a good benchmark for excellence?
Lastly, can I make up for my class 11 dip by taking say, 4 subject tests and scoring 730+ in all?</p>
<p>Alright, let me take these in order. First, class rank in the US is calculated based on your entire graduating class. Whatever way your school does it should be fine, though, as long as your guidance counselor makes a note of the methodology used. Second, I would say that Psychology is definitely considered a science, but rarely does psychology include lab work, so you will need additional classes. Third, it is my opinion that you should not try and convert your percentage to a GPA. Rather, it is better to have your counselor both explain the methodology and give an idea of what the percentiles are through the years (so that admissions can understand that an 80% in 11 is not actually that bad, or whatever). Finally, no, you cannot make up for your performance in a year by doing well on something that only takes a few hours. Nevertheless, do well and it will improve your overall appeal.</p>
) to impress an admissions officer. Number of competitions doesn’t matter as much as the level of achievement does. To put it in crude terms, national level debating is probably better than 2 state level competitions in the same. If you are passionate about your ECs then colleges will expect you to be consistent about indulging in them more and more. Do this: download the common app form and look at the activities page. Think about what you want that to look like and what kind of person you want to be (super debate speaker or student interested in international issues or actor who can quiz his way through) and reverse engineer your year plan from there. Once again: While you don’t want to come across as too narrow, mastering some ECs is better than being a jack of many.</p>