Chance an international student applying to Ivies + Top schools?

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

<p>Hello there, I am an international student (senior) from India trying for the colleges listed at the end (Fall 2010). Please chance me based on my profile. My SAT 1 scores are not impressive. Will the rest of my profile in some way compensate for it? I will not be able to take the SAT again die to reasons mentioned in Misc #1.</p>

<p>Here is my profile.</p>

<p>Testing Scores:
SAT 1 : 2000 (690 math, 630 Critical Reading, 680 Writing, 10 Essay)
SAT 2 : Math 1 - 760
Physics - 760
Math 2 - 690 (yes, I screwed up. Will use Score choice wherever applicable)</p>

<p>Will take SAT Math 2, Chemistry and World History in December. Expect 760+ in all of them. Also TOEFL in December. Appeared for ACT in October, probably will have scores on November 10.</p>

<p>GPA : School doesn't officially calculate GPA, but using their method of calculation it comes about to be approximately 3.95/4.0</p>

<p>Class Rank : 1/385 throughout middle and high school, except for one semester in Grade 10. School is widely recognized in city as one of the elite schools.</p>

<p>APs : APs or IB are not offered at school. My school has an accelerated curriculum for all courses that is equivalent to an AP, although Physics, Math and Chemistry courses go much beyond APs. Here are my mid-year marks: (Considering the difficulty of the curriculum, school considers 80+ marks to be an A (there are no '+'s or '-'s) - this is mentioned on the transcript as well, although the rule of the thumb for other CBSE schools is that a 90+ is an A+.) Also, my school has a limit on the maximum number of courses a student can take - 5 subjects.</p>

<p>English : 90/100
Mathematics : 100/100 (Includes Calculus)
Physics : 97/100
Chemistry : 92/100
Computer Science : 100/100
Social Sciences : 95/100 (Grades 9 and 10 only - Includes World History, Geography, Economics, Political Science, Disaster Management)
Foreign Language : 80/100 (Grades 9 and 10 only)</p>

<p>I have similar grades, 2-3% lesser actually, but all 90+, in previous grades. I improved in Grades 11 and 12.
I self studied all other courses offered but not available to me at school (due to cap on maximum subjects), did appear for their tests and topped, but they don't appear on my transcript. I requested my principal to mention this is her rec, and she probably did.</p>

<p>Important Awards:</p>

<ol>
<li>1st position at the International Students Science Fair (ISSF)for my presentation on the future of computing and my paper for the same among 22 countries. Note : I was 14 at that time when the maximum age of participation was 18).</li>
<li>1st Position at Odyssey International English fest in the English Quiz among 7 participating countries. I was 14 when the maximum age of participation as 18.</li>
<li>5th position at Macfair International Computer Quiz. The quiz is for Grades 11 and 12. I was allowed on an exception.
Note : Macfair is basically a math and computers event where a host of competitions take place with participants from many countries - don’t remember how many. I was 13 at the time of participation when the maximum age of participation was 18.</li>
<li>Won the 2nd position at the National Environment Quiz conducted by the Govt. of India at the national Level.</li>
<li>Among the nation's finalists at an environment test organised by an NGO ATREE, went to an environment camp to study environment first hand.</li>
<li>Huge pile of certificates and wins at the state level in oratory arts, quizzing, panel discussion, creative writing, build-it-from-scratch etc. Widely regarded as one of the best quizzers and orators in the state.</li>
</ol>

<p>School Positions Held: </p>

<p>President/Vice President of every school organization there is except for one (commerce - I am ineligible to be a member).
Computers - President
Oratory Society - President
Quizzing Society - Founder and president
School magazine - Director and Editor
Multimedia Team - Head
Science - Vice President
Captain of the school gymnastics team till grade 9
Head of School's Student Council.
And School's only Student Representative in History. Also only student to be head of all organizations I am eligible to be a member of in about 60-70 years of school's existence.</p>

<p>Note : Generally membership is restricted to Grades 11 and 12, an in some cases, 10th. I have however been a member since grade 6 of almost all of these organizations. My principal said that she would mention this on her recommendation as well.</p>

<p>ECs:
1. Built the computer cluster my school's intranet runs on.
2. I helped another school organize their computer fest. Actually they particularly asked my school to allow me to help them. The commerce society (which i am ineligible to be a member of) often asks me to look over their organization.
3. Taught a poor kid 2 hours (usually) everyday for two years now.
4. Developing my own style of martial arts.
5. Studied first year course for engineering by myself, nearly finished enough courses that I can go through my freshman year through Standing exams.
6. Mentored a few students for quizzing, trained them personally for the quizzing society I founded and now they are winning quizzes all over the country. Analogous results at the oratory society. Grades 11 and 12.
7. DIYing - Over the years I have built computer harware, software, electronics, faster bicycles. Nothing worthy of a patent though. DIY = Do it yourself; Geek speak for building things.
8. Conducted a leadership workshop for Grades 10 and 11. (I know sounds wierd - a 12th grader doing this, but my school really insisted that I do it; they really liked the organization of various annual events).
9. Generally play sports - Gymnastics, Tae Kwon Do, Boxing on my own, haven't participated much in high school leagues because my schedule and other activities do not leave me with any time. But in general, I am as fit as any other athlete should be. I did win many prizes at the national level in middle school.</p>

<p>Honors:
Valedictorian, also will be awarded a "Mr. (School's Name)" title at graduation.</p>

<p>Jobs : Have worked as a freelance programmer/web designer/software engineer for an year (grade 10). Working at a 4-8 Job after school on weekdays and 9-6 on Saturdays since Grade 11 to date. 29 hours a week in total. I don't get paid - I do it just because I want to and for experience - otherwise I enjoy all benefits any traditional employee would receive.</p>

<p>Recommendations:
Principal : Best student in history of school.
Math : Best student in career. Explained how I went out of my way to learn, emphasized on my research for the ISSF and my ability at math.
English : Best Student in career. Wrote about my character and my writing and oratory abilities.</p>

<p>Misc :
1. A lot of disturbances and violence at home, serious, but still I managed to keep my grades from tumbling. Home environment did not allow me to participate in international events such as ISSF again. I however made up by participating more at school clubs.
2. Basically I have school to leave for school at 6:30 AM to 2:00 PM. I stay at school till 3:30 PM working with one of the organizations I am leading, job from 4:00 PM to 8:00 PM. Reach home around 9 and then after homework and other activities, I have no time left for anything else. mentioned this on app.
3. Actually there were more things I wanted to mention, but I realized that i did not mention them when i submitted the common app, so i have not mentioned them here. Anything written here is also on my app.</p>

<p>Essays : Generally I am a good writer and I think my essays have turned out well. (Wherever applicable) Wrote about how I overcame the disturbances at home and decided to make a life for myself ahead.</p>

<p>Major: Double Degree : One is definitely computer Science or CS + EE and the other would be a humanities/arts subject. Right now I am thinking of International relations/studies.</p>

<p>Financial Aid : Will need aid. Will be able to meet only 10% of the cost on my own.</p>

<p>I am applying to the following schools; what do you think is my chance? I have only sent my application to Stanford so far, so do you recommend my adding or removing any names from the list based on my profile?</p>

<p>MIT
Princeton
Stanford (EA - Application sent)
Harvard college
Yale
Trinity College
Cornell
Northwestern</p>

<p>What (included in the list above as well as not included) schools should I take as safeties? I am sure I want a strong engineering department.</p>

<p>This was a very long description, and I thank you for reading the whole of it. Please do leave comments below. You can be brutally honest. :)</p>

<p>P.S. Note: Just in case, I thought I'd mention for the 'difficult for IAs with aid' replies, Harvard, MIT, Princeton and Yale are need-blind, even towards international applicants. However this is not true for the other schools.</p>

2

<p>Wow…you have extremely strong ECs…I envy you…ha ha
But I think you should raise your SAT scores… 2000 is low for ivies</p>

<p>MIT-high match
Princeton-high reach
Stanford (EA - Application sent)-high match
Harvard college-high reach
Yale-high rach
Trinity College-in
Cornell-match
Northwestern-low match
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/803462-my-chances-brown-3.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/803462-my-chances-brown-3.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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</p>

<p>Probably lower - around the same as MIT and Harvard since you do need aid at Stanford. SAT score somewhat low, especially your Subject Test scores.</p>

4

<p>Thank you guys. I have three questions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>So does this basically mean that I should strike Harvard C, Yale and Princeton off my list? Or should I wait for one or two more opinions?</p></li>
<li><p>Also, do you recommend any safety schools I should apply to, especially since I am an international and need FA? Can I consider Trinity College a safety?</p></li>
<li><p>Hypothetically, how much difference would a 2100 on the SAT make compared to a 2000?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>For everybody else who sees this, I would still like to see know opinion on my list of schools. As repeated above, please be brutally honest. :slight_smile: Thank you.</p>

5

<p><em>bump</em> Any other opinion?</p>

6

<p>Definitely take the SAT again. Your Ecs are ubelievable and if you get your SAT over 2100 (or even 2200) you’d have a decent at every school, even HYPS.</p>

7

<p>There are no safeties for an international needing aid. Schools like Trinity have a very limited budget for international aid that may be lower this year than in recent years because of the lowered endowment.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, given the competition from India, you will probably not be competitive at many of these schools given your scores. I would have a strong backup plan in India.</p>

8

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<p>I wouldn’t be discouraged from applying to any of those schools - your scores are low but your ECs good so you should apply to them since admissions are such a random thing in Ivies. You’d regret not applying if you didn’t so if you can afford the application fee/get a waiver, go for it.</p>

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<p>This could not be further from the truth. The random factor only kicks in once you have the stats or hook the institution wants.</p>

10

<p>Thank you guys for the responses. They definitely were helpful. Here are some updates, do they help my application in anyway?</p>

<p>Update :</p>

<ol>
<li><p>My October ACT score : 30 (English 31, Math 35, Reading 37, Science 28). At least I now make it past the lower margin of the middle 50% for all the schools I am applying. (Phew?)</p></li>
<li><p>I have changed my December SAT Subject Test registration to SAT Reasoning. Right now I get about 2100 on practice tests. Hopefully I’ll be able to raise it to 2200. That will help, right?</p></li>
<li><p>I don’t know if this helps, but I was nominated for the People to People Leadership Summit, that will be at one of the top US colleges in June next year (Ex : Harvard Stanford, JHU, GWU, Dartmouth etc). The selection is still a long way, but I am optimistic about being selected. :)</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Please let me know if any of this will help my application (if at all)? Thank you once again.</p>

11

<p>just a note to all: ISSF is a science fair organized in Japan (I believe) where students go and present their ‘science’ posters.</p>

<p>I had been to the same venue for a different fair organized by the same people, called the RSSF (Ritsumeikan Super Science Fair) which is exactly similar to ISSF (my batch of classmates regularly go there, nothing special) and uhmm, its definitely not the standard of Intel ISEF. So if you are under that assumption, you are mistaken.</p>

<p>The ‘competition’ is more of an exchange trip rather than an actual competitive science fair and personally, I was rather disappointed by the level of scientific research presented (eg: How Babies respond to Mothers stimuli, experimental study: Take 4 babies, watch reaction when mother is happy/sad, conclusion: Baby runs away when mum sad, vice versa)</p>

<p>anurag: sorry but am I referring to the same fair you went or is this some other one?</p>

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<p>“developing your own martial arts”</p>

<p>I am sorry but how exactly are you doing this? I nearly cracked up on this line, so please substantiate. </p>

<p>By looking at your recs and ECAs (not questioning the legitimacy or “level of prestige” each of your awards really lives up to apart from their names, which certainly look good) , you really seem like 1 in a few million students in india. for that, Good Luck.</p>

<p>I am also applying as an Indian international to Stanford SCEA :D</p>

13

<p>As you present them, you have amazing ECs but since you reqested being ‘‘brutally honest’’ I’ll make some harsh remarks.</p>

<p>Discrepancy between testing and academic performances does happen a lot but I believe in your case it seems to be rather too big. If your test scores do not reflect your academic achievements schools might question the actual quality of your grades and awards. So definitely retake your tests.</p>

<p>In addition, some of your ECs sound very subjective. They sure look outstanding from your descriptions, but do you believe that adcoms will look at your ECs the same way you do? To put in other words, how would you convince the adcoms, and prove them that your achievements are really that great?</p>

14

<p>Hey Anurag, great stats! Hmm, do you really want to retake reasoning and not the subject tests? Isn’t a 30 ACT good enough?</p>

<p>Just out of curiosity (Indian here too), which school do you go to? Are you a dipsite?</p>

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<p>Like hmom said, no schools are safeties for internationals needing aid. Don’t assume anything, especially since your test scores are on the lower end of qualified applicants to the schools you’re looking at. Make sure you have strong backups in India - are you considering IIT? It seems to me that you’d be more competitive applying there than to the Ivies. There are a lot of people with similar stats (and higher testing) applying domestically and they’re priority – both for admission and aid. </p>

<p>You certainly seem qualified, but the applicant pool from India and China is so strong that you’re not really a shoo-in anywhere. Your EC’s do sound a little subjective and the testing is weaker than a strong international applicant’s should be. While I’m not discouraging you to apply to HYP, it’s more of a crapshoot for you. Don’t include your ACT score. It’s not great and it’s not going to help you. Try and get your SAT score up. And don’t include the People-to-People thing unless you get in – from what I’ve heard, People-to-People is more like an exchange program than anything super selective, though. Regardless, it can only help you (if you’re selected). </p>

<p>Also, I know this may not seem appealing to you if you’re set on a name brand undergrad, but you should consider applying to state/public schools. They’re generally easier to get into, cheaper, and may offer you more aid (you’ll stand out more in their pool than in the Ivy pool). You can try for an Ivy graduate degree - it has more worth anyway. </p>

<p>Also, Yale’s engineering department is generally regarded as its weakest. Since engineering is what you want to do, maybe you should rethink that choice.</p>

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<p>You have a great application - except for your SAT scores. Im sure you heard this a lot, but get those up and you have great chances almost everywhere.</p>

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<p>what a weighty resume totally without sports or any athletic activity. Round yourself out with something other than academics and intellectual scorekeeping and your chances at top institutions will be be far better- don’t be one dimensional–you are a college professor in the incubation stage.</p>

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<p>@Everybody : You probably figured this out, but just in case, the reading ACT score I mentioned is 27 and not 37. Typo.</p>

<p>@Indian Monster : No idea about the RSSF, but you’re incorrect about the ISSF. The events at the ISSF differ every year (and there are often different every year - there was a poster event at my ISSF as well; three in all - quiz, poster, presentation). Also, every year the ISSF is held in a different country. Mine was held in India itself.</p>

<p>About the ‘mother-baby-research’ illustration, I don’t know if that is true (I went to the 3rd ISSF, there would have been three or something like that more ISSFs after that) but at my time people spoke about encryption algorithms, new hard disk designs and things, frankly many of which went over my head (One of the teams spoke about how they found a new way to break the MD5 hash without making use of collisions, bruteforcing or using rainbow tables).</p>

<p>Martial arts methodology overview: study anatomy in detail,study major martial art styles (3 in my case : (Taekwondo, Ninjutsu and Krav Maga) + Boxing), figure out the best and worst in each, combine with own experience inside and outside of the ring and making use of all these, especially anatomy, you get there.</p>

<p>@Crying Cloud : Yes, I am trying for IIT, but even if I get in, I don’t think I want to got there.</p>

<p>And the thing with state schools is that there is not enough aid (including both merit and need based aid. I will still try looking once again. Do you have any suggestions?</p>

<p>@Everybody Else : I will retake the SAT in December and hopefully I will make it past the 2200 mark. Thank you for the responses. More opinions are always welcome. :)</p>

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<p>random question (and so so sorry to interrupt): How and when does an Adcom officer determine when your ECs are “laundry list” and when are they genuine, like our friend’s upthere^ ??? just curious</p>