<p>As a professional who has sat on the listener’s side of the table and footlights for many years, I would have to disagree with much of what you say, beci316. We make no assumptions about anyone until they open their mouths and sing. Awful, awful singers come from strong programs, and if I named them you would be stunned. Wonderful singers come from the regional and smaller schools, and they get full credit for what they present. Degree accreditation bodies like NASM offer validation of most of these schools, but frankly, if the talent and presentation is strong enough, it matters not if the singer has any degrees.</p>
<p>As the father of an instrumentalist, I’m just going to shake my head, and stay out of this as I mumble under my breath: “a name may open doors, but won’t get you a seat”. </p>
<p>Very simply, the name carved in stone, nor the name plaque on the studio door will a talent make. Understand the idea of perceptions, and embrace the realities. Nepotism and favoritism does exist, and while a “name” may open a door, it can often close another.</p>
<p>To cartera- In my defense, I would like to say that I never said famous equals good. Actually, I made a point to not say that. </p>
<p>“well-known professors are probably going to be at big, brand-name schools. Notice that I didn’t say the best professors, but the most well known ones.”</p>
<p>violadad- I didn’t know we were having an “argument” that one would need to “stay out of.” (though lets be honest you didn’t really did you?) From everything I was told during my application process (granted that was 4 years ago) I was told that the name matters. I was told that during college. And I have been told that as I audition after college. But of course name isn’t everything. If you aren’t good, you aren’t good, no matter where you went, and the opposite also applies. If you’re amazing, it also won’t matter where you went. I merely advised that if you can get to study with someone you work well with AND that person happens to be at a name-brand school, you get 2 for the price of 1. Go for it. But if the big school doesn’t have a teacher you’re excited to study with, and someplace else does, go there. </p>
<p>“So your voice is most important, but take a brand-name school if you can get one” is what I said. Not “screw everything and go to Curtis if you get in” </p>
<p>lorelei- well awesome. A lot of what you said I figured was pretty obvious, that good people come from everywhere. But since I didn’t actually say that, I can see where you’d think that I was confused. I have just always been told that where you go to school is just as important as what you did when you were there. But if that’s completely wrong, awesome. </p>
<p>In general, while I absolutely appreciate everyone’s opinions, I think everyone was really quick to attack me for things I didn’t actually say in my post. When I’m wrong, please correct me. But maybe correct me for the things that I actually typed, instead of what you assume I believe. just saying…</p>
<p>I apologize if I misunderstood you. I guess I didn’t understand what this meant - </p>
<p>“So if you can get a famous teacher at a famous school, that’s the goal.”</p>
<p>you’re right- that is a confusing statement. Here’s what I really meant to say: </p>
<p>If you find a teacher you like, and they happen to be famous and work at a famous place, awesome. If however they aren’t famous, but you still like them, it really doesn’t matter at all. </p>
<p>You just feel shiny inside when you tell people about the teacher you’re obsessed with and people know who you’re talking about. 
(It’s okay, no one knows who my teacher is/was, but I still love her desperately)</p>
<p>ps I seriously can’t spell today.</p>
<p>beci316: the level of other musicians one encounters is crucially important. But musicianship and musicality are not necessarily the same thing as vocal talent, technique, and presence. The abilities of peers is especially crucial for chamber ensembles…the groups’ success depends on each member’s individual ability. </p>
<p>The main element in hiring decisions is usually performance credentials, though not necessarily current ability with a performer of long standing reputation. (You are quite correct in noting that famous does not mean good or best. It also depends on what a singer needs at a particular point in time, too.) While talented performers have a lot to offer young musicians, they are not necessarily able to or interested in teaching technique, which especially crucial for singers…none of us is handed a mature instrument…we have to develop it for ourselves, and hope not to break it along the way. </p>
<p>Your thoughtful awareness of all of these things will serve you well. Good luck to you.</p>
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<p>Tis not an argument, but a philosophical discussion that has occurred many times before, and one which will continue well past the point most of us are but memories. </p>
<p>My loud muttering of course draws me in, but I have neither the expertise and experience of lorelei2702 or the personal involvement of cartera45 to address the nuances of vocal programs. Again, my aside prefaced my remarks.</p>
<p>It’s all about options, and choices. Let’s face it, some are enamored with a name, be it an institution or a teacher. In the case of string students, I see the same methodology applied to instrument purchase and acquisition. Is Juilliard or even Curtis, and a name teacher the right choice for all, even with the chops? Possibly. Probably a must for those bent on a solo career path. Will every student mesh with a specific school or instructor? Of course not. Look at OperaDad’s comment <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/677724-eastman-package.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/677724-eastman-package.html</a> on his son’s Eastman offer in a separate thread… would UW Madison be a career killer. I would venture not.</p>
<p>Honestly, if resources were not an issue (and they are for many on the board now, and will be for a good proportion of future readers), then the name/well known instructor/instrument/summer program/precollege program and all else involved would not be an issue for many. Yet a few would turn still down an offer of Colburn or Curtis (yes it happens) to go to Juilliard, or Eastman, or NEC, and it’s often a combination of factors that drive the choice. </p>
<p>There are many superb undergrad programs. And a reality is that most students will continue to refine their talents in MM level programs. If push comes to shove, save the “best” for grad school, including the bucks. Put it where it will have the largest impact. </p>
<p>The points you originally put forth prompted my reply. Your subsequent posts clarified your position. </p>
<p>I see this board as a source of information and experience, neither dogma, or the “right” way, but as means of examining options. If one presents a position, the opposing viewpoint is best exposed by offering it as a possibly viable alternative.</p>
<p>“a name may open doors, but won’t get you a seat” -Thank you violadad! I am sending this to my d!!<br>
We are going through this decision now with my instrumentalist d. But, I do believe she is 99% sure she is going with the teacher she loves and has wanted to study with from the start.</p>
<p>Clarification of post #26…credentials in hiring for teaching positions, not performance gigs, though Name Performers sell more tickets than unknown newcomer, who may be incredible.</p>