<p>So far one of my sons as a sophomore has had only a few TAs for any class. Even the Japanese language class discussion sections are with a full professor. Only the science labs and discussion sections are with TA's and if they are competent that is fine. I would not want a TA as the main lecturer. this is at a 3rd tier public btw.</p>
<p>Other son at a private has had more TA's in discussion sections and as graders. He has had more issues frankly. I wonder if private schools use more TA's than publics? My experience is that this is true but that is only two schools. Perhaps engineering programs use fewer TA's to lecture. </p>
<p>I do agree that the first time you teach something you are not as effective as someone who has experience teaching the class or subject matter multiple times. For this reason a TA planning and teaching a class can shortchange the students regardless of how well they understand the material.</p>
<p>I don't see the TA as being the teacher. In my D's case...for the arch history course, she was leading a section. The professor taught the course and also oversaw the TAs plans for the sections in meetings with them every week. Leading a section is having a discussion on the material. It is just providing an opportunity to be in small groups for discussion when the lecture doesn't allow for that. It is not teaching new material. As well, the TAs have office hours and are available to help a student. </p>
<p>In the foreign language class, the TA is simply leading a discussion section as a further opportunity for students to practice talking in the language. The TA is not teaching new material.</p>
<p>All this ADDS to the course, but is not instead of the professor.</p>
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<p>TA-ing by undergrads does not come as a replacement for the teaching by the professors, but as an addition to it.>></p>
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<p>That would be fine. When I think of TA, I don't think of peer tutors....I think of a teaching assistant who is helping to teach the CLASS...and I would not like that. To be honest, I have very bad recollections of the TAs when I was an undergrad, and many of them were PhD students. They were awful. They were book smart but they were inexperienced as teachers and actually were not good teachers.</p>
<p>There's a video course called Godel, Escher, Bach at MIT OCW entirely taught by a senior. I've viewed parts of the first class and he seems to do a good job at lecturing.</p>
<p>Some schools (MIT, Stanford, probably others as well) have some student-initiated classes that the students are teaching. Those are not regular classes (or regular students in most cases...), and they are not graded (though the students do get credit for taking them).</p>
<p>I agree it's a case of depends. I'd rather someone one year out of course wasn't teaching, but grading homework, or being part of a peer tutoring network is fine. I have to say I had at least one grad student TAs leading a section that was far better than the full professor supposedly teaching the course. (He was so bad I stopped going to lectures, but continued going to sections.) </p>
<p>I think the truly scary thing was when my husband was teaching histology to med students when he'd never even taken the course before. Just because you have professor in front of your name doesn't mean you know the material. He was quite literally learning the material a chapter or two ahead of his students. Luckily they taught labs in pairs and he was paired with someone with experience.</p>
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Leading a section is having a discussion on the material. It is just providing an opportunity to be in small groups for discussion when the lecture doesn't allow for that.
<p>D is a junior - with senior academic standing - and she's on her 3rd semester of TAing in a lab she took 1st semester freshman year. Like the grading she did for organic chemistry, the job (when openings are available) is only offered to the highest performing students. She'll likely continue this job until graduation because she genuinely likes the professor. She's also added a 2nd TA position with a prof from a sophomore year lab - a job she was offered before that course was finished for the semester.</p>
<p>She's also taking a course this semester with some grad students. In a recent group project she assumed the role of leader and the grad students in that group looked to her for guidance. </p>
<p>I think qualification for a TA position seriously depends on the student.</p>
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I know CCers are typically against having "TAs" teach courses, but it's also true that many of these TAs go on to get teaching positions at top colleges -- including CCs top 20 list -- so the difference between having a TA in their last year of their graduate program and their first year in a college position can be negligible.
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<p>That's an important point. Colleges that emphasize teaching can't hire teachers with experience unless those teachers get their experience somewhere.</p>
<p>Those folks are also right who say that such beginning instructors often get no help -- in designing courses, choosing or constructing assignments, thinking of learning outcomes, planning appropriate assessment exercises. Some schools are now starting to do more to help grad students think about teaching -- but unless you have the opportunity to do it, it's pretty hard to learn. We all hope that such beginners earn their spurs somewhere, just NIMBY -- or at my kid's school!</p>
<p>Just remember that the TA avoided at some big university this year could be a professor at that pricey liberal arts college next year -- and sometimes the only thing that has changed is the finishing of the degree.</p>
<p>Admittedly, my experience is different since I go to a small LAC (no grad students) but several classes (mostly sciences) have TAs. Their duties can vary - I've had classes where the TAs only ever graded homework/problem sets (likely from a grade rubric the professor gave - a monkey could do it). </p>
<p>There are other classes that have extra help sessions led by upper class students. These are NOT required - the tests, homework, etc are all set forth by the professor, and students are free to attend or not attend as they'd like. It is set up somewhat like a discussion section, though, so most do, and most do the worksheets with problems to help prepare them for the session. This seems appropriate to me - it's peer assisted learning, with guidance from the professor, whereas the actual CLASS is taught by a professor.</p>
<p>I admit I used to also be hesitant about undergrad and even grad TA's, and certainly, in some cases, the uneasiness is warranted (if the undergrads are brought in as a result of faculty shortage, etc...), but honestly, after spending 4 years in college, you just come to realize how little any of that matters and how much of it is distorted.</p>
<p>I've had terrible professors whose office hours I couldn't be paid to attend and I've had bright, young grad and undergrad TAs whom I could talk to easily, and who've been really inspirational to me. And never once was there not someone with expertise around when I had a deeper question that was in need of answering. On several occasions, I've emailed professors whom I've never even met with physics questions, and received detailed and generous replies. </p>
<p>I'm a tutor for a freshman physics class this semester and I hold office hours twice a week in the evenings. This is a class of about 120 students consistently taught by 3 senior faculty members (one a nobel laureate when I took it), 2 grad TAs, and me (an undergrad). Professors' office hours go on for several hours every day. One of the grad students also hold office hours, yet in an average week I still have a pretty full room of students showing up. What a lot of people aren't realizing is undergrad TAs don't replace more qualified staff, we're just an extra resource for a class (esp freshman classes since they are larger and the students more timid about seeking help), and we tend to teach in a more accessible way because we're not as distanced from the material. I still remember how I learned all these concepts myself, where I got hung up, and what were the insights that cleared up my confusion, and I try to offer those to the students. About half of the students that come to my section just come to do homework, collaborate, and listen to other peoples' questions, which is cool. They'd never do that at a professor's office hours, and I like that they feel more comfortable.</p>
<p>Professors teach because it's their job. Grad students teach as a requirement or to earn necessary money. When undergrads teach it's for terrible pay so it's usually because they really like to.</p>
<p>It really depends on how the Professor and the school use TAs. One of my kids has been a TA for 3 liberal arts classes and a "Head TA" supervising other undergraduate TAs. At his school, the undergrads get credit for a class for doing the job. Being a TA is by invitation, and requires that the Professor have a high opinion of the student's understanding of the material and ability to lead others.</p>
<p>A lot of the TA work is grading papers and quizes against a matrix or answer sheet. TAs are checked often to make sure they're doing what they're supposed to do. There is not a lot of discretion in the grading done by undergraduate TAs, and any student can ask to have a paper's grade checked by the Professor.</p>
<p>They have to be available for extra help or tutoring at any time. He is required to teach one class - which is really no different than anyone in the class having to do a presentation or lead a discussion. The Professor is present to add anything on the subject that he missed (and also to grade him!). He is also required to lead discussion groups for two classes, as part of his grade, and to be present for classes to assist with answering any questions. The TA receive training on how to handle suspicions of cheating and other problems. It turned out to be a lot more work than he expected, but was fair for a 3-credit class. </p>
<p>If my kid was taking the lead at teaching and the Professor was uninvolved, I'd probably be unhappy with the school for using undergrad TAs in lieu of Professors or grad students. I think most undergrad Teaching Assistants are actually more assistants than teachers, except for what they can offer through tutoring on a subject in which they had done well.</p>
<p>"...and TA-ing by undergrads does not come as a replacement for the teaching by the professors, but as an addition to it."</p>
<p>I have to agree with nngmm and pebbles, that it is how well the TA-ing is run by the school which is most important.</p>
<p>My daughter TA'd 2 semesters at Brown last year as a Jr in the CS dept. It is an honor to be chosen and there are a series of interviews and vetting done. Also Brown doesn't have a huge grad school to draw upon (but most depts don't use TA's.) She runs a lab section, holds office hours and grades papers. The actual course is taught by a Professor. She says the dept is extremely well run and efficient. The TA's even rotate to take class notes which are available to all. And access to extra help is more available. She benefitted from this system as a student.</p>
<p>"But she's a sophomore. Since when are we parents paying astronomical college tuitions to have 19-year-olds doing some of the teaching?" </p>
<p>My 19 years old sophmore D is not TA, but she is SI - supplemental instructor. She gets paid minimum wage and has been a great help to her Chem. prof. She was offered the job without applying to it, based on prof. observation of her ability to explain academic material. She has been doing a lot of it thru HS and last summer helped her friend in college to get totally unexpected "A" in chemistry (was not paid for that). She has scheduled office hours and gets about 20 kids before their exam and on evarage about 10. I do not think that all these kids would come to her looking for help, if she was not helpful. Sometime kids understand better from their peers than teachers. She had to take one educational class outside of her major for this job. She has taken this Chem class last year and all her grades had been over 100% (with extra credits). She also has to sit in prof. class currently as part of her job to make sure she knows what material they are covering. If prof. would be doing this tutoring, tuition would be higher then currently, since I doubt that prof. is working for minimum wage.</p>
<p>My son took an advanced math course as a Freshman and the professor was frequently unprepared. My son corrected him often in his proofs on the board to the point that the professor asked for his help from time to time when he was doing proofs. This professor was great at research but not a very good teacher.</p>
<p>We send our young men and women to military training where they learn to handle leadership and training situations. No reason why a college student can't have a good dose of leadership and responsibility at the age of 19 or 20.</p>
<p>when I was at Cornell, in the age of dinosaurs when kids entering did not have extensive computer experience, I started working for the CS 101 class, a several hundred person lecture course. Because the course was so large, and because it was a beginner course, the supplemental staff was all undergrads, a couple dozen of them. As a sophomore I staffed the computer labs and graded papers. Became a "supervisor" as a Jr and the "head" of this staff as a Sr. I also proctored exams, not sure what years I did that. The job in the lab was like office hours, except it wasn't just the students in this class that came in with questions, it was students in potentially all classes, but usually just the first few into courses. </p>
<p>There was never a problem with the students getting help from their peers, they were happy to get time and to get someone who could help them figure out their problem.</p>
<p>I think the undergrads working in jobs like these, call them TAs or whatever, would be just as good and probably better than the grad students who are forced to TA because of their package. At LACs all the tutoring is done by undergrads. </p>
<p>What I would have a problem with is a poor teacher who cannot communicate for the main lecture or section of the class.</p>
<p>Hot topic at our house! S was a TA who did actual teaching last year as a HS senior. He wants to be a professor and LOVES working with students. That said, as he narrowed his college search, he focused on schools where the courses he wanted would be taught by profs. </p>
<p>S is taking Analysis and has never seen/heard of a TA for the class, to the best of my knowledge. He may well look into one of these positions next year as a way of further developing his teaching skills. (And for those who like teaching, SPLASH, now available at a few colleges, is a great way for UGs to get involved.)</p>