<p>D has applied only to 0-4 BSN programs. She has hundreds of hours of hospital volunteering experience, in addition to caring for a terminally ill parent for years. This kid is adamant about nursing as a career choice, with eyes wide open.</p>
<p>My questions is really more for me, than for her. Our family has spent a lot of time in hospitals lately. Since I don't know anything about nursing careers, I've asked nurses where they went to school and what they think of the schools where D has either been accepted or where she's waiting to hear.</p>
<p>So far, most of the RNs have said they went to the hospital's own nursing schools, or that they went to accelerated nursing programs after receiving other degrees (they went back to school for nursing to get a good job...) I haven't found a single nurse so far who went to a 0-4 year BSN program. A few told me that they think the benefits of a 0-4 program are that you get to have a more typical college experience, you get summers off from your studies, and it's easier since you can spread out the same work over extra years. They said the pros of an accelerated program are that you get your degree much more inexpensively. </p>
<p>One said that a nursing school at a nearby smaller university was viewed by local hospitals as having a better program than another nursing school in the region that is ranked as a Top 10 nursing school. She said it didn't really matter, since her hospital would hire grads from either school.</p>
<p>Are 4-year BSN degrees considered better training for RNs? Or does it really not matter where you get your RN training, as long as you can pass the exams? Is there any salary or opportunity difference? Does a nursing school's national ranking actually means anything in the profession?</p>
<p>I am not a nurse, but as a pharmacist I have worked and had nurses as friends for ages. Some of the best nurses have gone slowly up the ranks,nurse assistant,LVN then RN. However if my child were to go into nursing I would rec the 4 yr degree. The education gives you the world. It gives you a great foundation for the future especially management. It is comforting to hear someone go into the field like your daughter.I run into too many who just needed a quick way to get a good income. Congratulations to you and daughter.</p>
<p>The BSNs might be in more of the managerial postions. Whatever degree a nurse gets, he/she starts at about the same salary, but the BSN offers more options for advancement.</p>
<p>I think that the associate’s degree nurses might have more clinical hours, but that may not be universally true.</p>
<p>Well, as you might guess, I am a nurse. I am a graduate of a four year college. I would absolutely, without hesitation, suggest your daughter go for a four year degree (a BSN). While it is true that nurses with associates degrees get a solid foundation in the fundamentals of nursing and are often prepared to walk into a hospital and start working the day after graduation (generally they log more clinical hours), they don’t necessarily have the “staying” power. Associate degree prepared nurses may have more clinical hours but BSNs have more book learning which enables them to more readily incorporate new treatments, technology, etc. If your daughter thinks she wans to spend her entire career as a floor nurse in a hospital maybe a BSN isn’t neccessary. But many places you can’t even get promoted to charge nurse without a BSN. There are also many career paths that would only be open to BSNs: Public Health Nursing, school nursing, management positions, and the world of nurses with advanced training such as Nurse Practitioners and Nurse Anesthetists. I have great admiration for the many people who begin their careers with associate degrees and then return to school to complete their BSNs, often while working full time and managing a family, but it is very hard. As for salary differentials, it isn’t necessarily all that great just out of school. At my first job, 20 years ago, I earned 25 cents an hour extra. The difference over time is much more significant and is more related to the additional opportunities that are available to BSN prepared nurses. In my current position as a nursing supervisor in a public health department I have the opportunity to work with students in many different programs and I see huge differences. The associate degree nurses tend to be much more task oriented while BSN nurses see the big picture more. Your daughter should go for the BSN. Let her start out with all the doors open, every opportunity available to her. It will absolutely be worth it in the long run.</p>
<p>I second nursekays post. Many many years ago, most RN programs were hospital based 3 year nursing programs which did not provide any type of degree. About 50% of the current nursing work force is from that era ( my era) and ended up getting BSN by going back for RN to BSN programs. These may be many of the people you are talking to. Associate degree programs I would not recommend at all.
BSN is the best way to enter the profession with an eye for future advancement or expansion of her education and role.
Wishing her all the best! She will never be without employment, thats for sure.</p>
<p>Not only that, if she wanted to make a career change later and a bachelor’s degree is needed for whatever reason (for example, applying to law school), she’ll have one.</p>
<p>Thank you! This has been very helpful. I had asked her about getting the two-year program, but she was determined to go the BSN 4-year program. </p>
<p>The nurses we’ve met in hospitals and nursing homes over the years have been very encouraging, especially when they find out that she actually understands what they do (ick factor, hard work, on feet constantly, adrenaline surges during emergencies, long shifts, patient issues, etc.). The only nursing that she doesn’t want to do is pediatric. She shadowed a nurse in a pediatric practice and hated it. Shots, weight, height, sniffles all day long. She was given an opportunity to observe surgery and is considering surgical nursing. She has a strong interest in geriatric nursing, working with dementia and stroke patients. </p>
<p>I’ve suggested a 2+2 college program so she could consider other options, but she won’t hear of it. I’ve suggested the med or dental track (shouldn’t girls reach as high as the guys?), but she wants to be a RN. I’ve suggested that she get a 4-year degree in something else (business, psychology, biology, etc.) and then add her nursing degree if she still wants to pursue it after college. She told me that she’s already sure about nursing. I suggested she try out different subjects at community college, but she only takes classes to knock off prereqs for the 0-4 programs, or that could help her do well in her nursing program (nutrition, psychology, etc.) She has even bought scrubs at Wal-Mart to use as pjs. </p>
<p>I admire her caring heart and desire for this particular career, since I think it’s incredibly difficult and underpaid. It’s strange to me that a kid can be so driven and focused, though. I’d probably be a lot more comfortable with an “undecided” kid!</p>
<p>Often people want to be nurses for very different reasons than they want to be a doctor. The level of interaction nurses have with people is completely different. Doctors spend, on average, 7 minutes with a patient. I made a concious choice to be a nurse because that is the job I wanted, not because I wasn’t smart enough to get into medical school. The real shame is that the contributions that nurses make are not as respected or appreciated or as well compensated as those of physicians. For many of us it is not about “having a job in a medical field” it is about wanting to be a nurse. Wanting to care for people. Your daughter is thinking about this the right way and is setting herself up to be at the upper end of nursing earnings. Support her. She clearly has the passion.</p>
<p>I think it is funny that she says that she doesn’t want to do pediatrics. At least 70% of the nursing students I see say they want to go into Peds. I think they have a very unrealistic view (sitting around playing with babies and toddlers maybe?). For me, I chose Public Health because I don’t like sick people. I work in prevention, doing home visits on pregnant women (not sick!) and their babies (hopefully not sick). There are a world of choices and I wish your daughter well.</p>
<p>Another BSN prepared nurse here! I see you’re from the PA area. I did my first two years at West Chester U. and finished up at Widener. This was over 20 years ago. I have worked in the hospital setting since I graduated, and work with nurses with various degrees. For a young girl just graduating from HS, going away to a 4 year college would be a wonderful experience. This may be the only time that she gets to have that type of experience. She can always take college classes later on, after she’s working or if she gets married and has children, but now is the time to have that on-campus, dorm family type of opportunity. I loved my college years and my husband often states that he wishes he had that chance.</p>
<p>I agree with a previous poster about the different approaches to nursing, depending on the degree achieved. My associate degree co-workers are great - especially at tasks (and when I graduated from college, the associate prepared nurses from the community college has the best passing rates for the NCLEX of all nursing programs). That being said, I see the college prepared nurses do look at things differently - they take more things into consideration when caring for the patient and most times, they aim for higher positions.</p>
<p>Remember, this isn’t a definite - just more of a generalization. Also, just wondering, why were you trying so hard to talk her out of a nursing career? :)</p>
<p>One more vote for the BSN program, also from a BSN prepared RN. I graduated from a BSN program over 25 years ago and believe me I wouldn’t change a thing. I had a great time in college despite all the hard work it took to earn that degree. I am still friends with the 5 women I was closest to in school, and I even met my husband at college! lol For me, it was a great experience and it could be for your daughter, too.</p>
<p>I currently work on a cardiac floor at our local hospital where only 25% of the nursing staff have a BSN. Three years ago, the nursing administration started pushing RN’s to get their BSN, and even set up a program with a local college to facilitate this. Several nurses on my floor have recently completed their degrees and all agree it was very difficult and stressful to be working and going to school at the same time. More than once I’ve heard them exclaim, “I wish I had done this years ago when I was young!”</p>
<p>Like Sydsim, I am also wondering why you are trying to talk your daughter out of a career in nursing. She sounds like she knows exactly what she is getting into and has a clear focus on her career path. I admit it is unusual for such a young girl to be so driven and focused but not unheard of. My oldest daughter announced at age 16 she was interested in becoming a speech-language pathologist. She had shadowed a SLP as part of a school program and became interested in the field. She researched it, visited schools and checked out programs and eventually enrolled in a program. Seven years later she now has a wonderful job in Boston as a SLP and loves it. She really knew what she wanted, went after it and it all worked out for her. Good luck to your daughter.</p>
<p>I cannot be specific, but my S’s friend graduated from a small, community college nursing school. He had multiple job offers waiting for him. His first job out of school was at $22 hr, worked 3 12hr shifts, pd for 40 hrs, with all the ot available he wanted. He says nurses are in extreme demand and don’t have to be ranked #1 in their class from Johns-Hopkins to get a good job quickly(his example). He adds that now there is a higher demand for male nurses too, because there is such a disproportionate # of female nurses now, and there are typically occasional advantages for an employer to have a male nurse…</p>
<p>I greatly admire and respect nurses, but I also think they work extremely hard and are not respected or compensated as well as they should be. It’s not a glamorous or easy job, by any means. I’m one of those people who gets queasy looking at a band-aid. The ick-factor alone would make me run for the hills. (I know this is a character deficiency on my part.) I thank heaven that there are people who pursue nursing. I know that someday I’ll be the patient in the bed, and that nurses are the ones on the front line of health care. </p>
<p>I’m trying to be supportive to D. One school suggested that she consider being a physician’s assistant, but she decided it wouldn’t offer enough patient work. She wants to actually work with sick people, not to be in admin or teaching. At one open house, 2/3 of the prospective nursing students raised their hands when they asked which candidates wanted to be nurse anesthetists (sp?). One student asked if there was a guarantee program, and was visibly distressed when she learned that she’d have to work as a nurse for a few years before applying to a program. My D just shook her head. She says that too many people are going into nursing because their parents tell them that they’ll always have a job, instead of because they want to take care of patients. D is a very old soul for 17. </p>
<p>One of the nurses we spoke to recently said that many of the girls in her nursing school dropped out during the clinicals, since they just couldn’t handle the work. She said that she almost dropped out herself when she was helping a 13 yr old deliver a baby during one clinical experience.</p>
<p>Whew, sometimes parenting is hard when our children choose a path that will take them into scary new territories.</p>
<p>I think nurses are well-respected (but likely underpaid). I know that I am awed when I meet nurses. I could never do what they do. I tear-up when my pets have to get shots.</p>
<p>There’s a special place in heaven for nurses.</p>
<p>I know what you mean. My D has also been accepted to that “Top 10 Nursing School” BSN program. (I recognize you from that forum ) She definitely wants to be a nurse, not a physician; but she does anticipate continuing her education to NP or some other advance-degree specialty-yet-to-be-determined. She doesn’t have as many hours in the hospital as your D, but does have enough to know that she likes the hospital setting.</p>
<p>Sometimes I look at my 17-year old baby and think “wow, in a couple of years she’ll be knee-deep in a whole bunch of adult situations…the ick factor, life/death decisions, communicable diseases, the bad side of human beings and how we treat each other…how will she handle that?”</p>
<p>But then I think about her strengths. She’s smart, motivated, and caring. She is one of the most non-judgmental and empathetic people I know. She should make a good nurse! Right now she believes she wants to be a nurse taking care of patients; going through the BSN program will ultimately give her more career options if she changes her mind. </p>
<p>I guess it’s almost time for us to let our D’s out into that scary world…maybe they’ll end up at the same place?</p>
<p>You think that is bad…my younger daughter (15) wants to be a police officer! Talk about scary. Plus I think she will really follow through and do it. She has had this dream since I can remember, has completed a 3 week local Youth Police Academy in the summer, done “ride alongs” with officers, etc etc. So, I support her passion and interest although I find it terrifying! But, I told her she needs to get a BA or BS degree because she is a good student and it will open more doors for her in the future, even though you can technically become a cop with a 2 year degree where we live.</p>
<p>I also am a nurse and have my BSN. I absolutely, without a moments hesitation recommend that nurses get a 4 year degree if at all possible. It definitely opens more doors and opportunities, plus it is just a more well rounded education which is invaluable.</p>
<p>BSN here also…definitely go for 4 yr. sch.
The two yr. degree and hospital programs put out great nurses but more opp. for advancement and overall experience is fuller with a four yr. degree.</p>
<p>You wanna hear scary?
S1 is a U.S. Navy Special Operations Officer (Explosive Ordnance Detonation…like the recent movie “The Hurt Locker”)
S2 is a college soph majoring in Criminal Justice and headed for Police work.
Yowsa!</p>
<p>My wife and her sister are both RNs. My wife received her RN / BSN from a four year college program, my sister-in-law through a hospital nursing school and then a BSN from a college. Both also have their MSN degrees and both are nursing educators (at different hospitals) in a large urban area.</p>
<p>Needless to say they are in a unique position to not only evaluate and compare their own educations but also the nursing personnel and students that they work with in their hospitals. They both disagree with the opinion that RNs who are trained in hospital programs are better prepared than their college counterparts. They both believe that academically sharp BSN graduates (from GOOD college programs with a large amount of clinical hours) are better prepared than their hospital trained counterparts. Both my wife and her sister are validating this opinion with their own daughters who will enroll in BSN programs during Fall 2010.</p>
<p>That said. ANY potential nurse should have some actual in-hospital time to witness first hand what the profession is all about. Many of the top nursing schools (BSN programs) want to see shadowing, volunteering or nursing aide type experience on the ECs of their applicants. It would not surprise me at all that students who have no idea (or very little idea) of what nursing is about will leave any program at a higher rate than those with some first hand experience.</p>
<p>“The real shame is that the contributions that nurses make are not as respected or appreciated or as well compensated as those of physicians.”</p>
<p>I know of nurses (NP’s, probably,) that make more money than MD’s ( pediatricians, probably)…and without the med mal, and all that that implies. Many in the medical community suggest that NP’s will/have replaced pediatirician’s for primary outpatient care. </p>
<p>I started out training as an LVN from a “vocational track” in HS, which helped pay my way though undergrad before medical school.</p>
<p>My dad was one of those pioneers…a male nurse who got his RN in 1960. Ultimately joined the Army because it was hard for male nurses to get work with patients back then. The Army required that he go back in the mid-70s and complete his BSN to maintain his rank, so he was 40 when he got his four-year degree. (I was in 9th grade taking Alg I when he was taking Math 100, his nemesis. We learned truth tables together. :))</p>
<p>For a nursing student who might want to consider the military, the four year BSN is the way to an officer slot.</p>
<p>I have several dear friends who are nurses, and each of them took a different route: one went to her hospital’s nursing program in northern PA, then got a MSN at Penn, did ICU peds, school nursing and now hospice; one went to Lehman College, got her BSN and then a MSN later; did med-surg and cardiac, now does chemo. One got her PhD in neurobiology, could not find a job in the northern CA economy, so she did an accelerated BSN, then MSN, did med-surg and first assistant, and while recovering from a work-related back injury that laid her up for eight months, got CNP certification at Sac State and is now working in a doctor’s office. (She also teaches the core science courses in the pre-nursing/allied health program at a CC.) Another person I know got her BSN, went to med school much later and now does research and hospice counseling work at a major research hospital.</p>
<p>Nurses get a special halo with extra stars. It really is a calling. OP, if your D still feels this way after caring for an ill parent and all the other OTJ exposure she’s had, I’d say she has the calling, too. None of these women have ever lacked for well-paying work, either.</p>
) She definitely wants to be a nurse, not a physician; but she does anticipate continuing her education to NP or some other advance-degree specialty-yet-to-be-determined. She doesn’t have as many hours in the hospital as your D, but does have enough to know that she likes the hospital setting.</p>