Some thoughts on highly selective schools

Prep School Admissions
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<p>So some of you who are new to boarding school application can be overly optimistic about your chances of getting in a school with an admit rate of low teens. Meanwhile, people who have gone through the process may tell you that your chance of getting in such a school is "extremely" low, implying it's next to impossible. So Let's take a closer look at both positions. </p>

<p>A common misconception you may have is that - well, because there's no obvious flaws in my profile - good grades, good test scores and a bunch of extracurricular activities or even a leadership position, why shouldn't I get in? The truth of the matter is that when a school has so many applications from many more than qualified candidates, there will be some or many well qualified candidates who will be waitlisted or even rejected. So a lot of times, "it's not you"! In addition, the school is trying to form a community, a balanced class, which means sometimes they may choose someone who doesn't have as strong credentials as you do overall but has one particular <em>attribute</em> the school is looking for. And, like anything else, luck plays a role too. So in summary, you shouldn't think just because you are qualified or more than qualified, you will be automatically in. Not so fast.</p>

<p>Now, on the other hand, if a school's admit rate is 13%, does it mean <em>your</em> chance of getting in is 13%? Not necessarily. For example, if you are not "academically admissible", which may or may not be so obvious to you at the time of application, your chance is close to 0. Another example, - if you are a straight A student in a good school outside NE, have an SSAT score of 99%, and have been involved in meaningful EC's, then you should be confident that your chance is reasonably higher than 13%. But wait, is it meaningful though? Even if your chance is 50%, it just means you will just as likely to be rejected as to be accepted. Is that really comforting? Probably not - certainly not to warrant the plan of applying to just this one school and expecting a positive outcome! However, it does become meaningful when you plan on how many reaches, matches and safeties you are applying to, and which schools are your matches and safeties. In addition, one factor that hugely affects many students/famlies' decision on how many schools and what schools to apply to is their local options. If you have a great local option to fall back on, whether its your PS or a private day school, then it's reasonable to just apply to one or more high reaches your family believes would be worth the "cost" (financial and otherwise). If however, you "must" find a boarding school then do include some less selective schools, regardless how strong a candidate you feel you are (you will see just how unpredictable it is on March 10!). If you are a strong candidate like the one in the example I gave above and your are full pay, then you should be able to get in a school relatively easily outside the top 10.</p>

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<p>Perfect. I like this post because, while I see the need to encourage students to broaden their searches, I do worry sometimes that we might be discouraging kids (like mine, 4 year ago) from applying at all. While it might feel like it, applying to reach schools is not like buying a lottery ticket–sometimes you are just the right person for the school, and you won’t know unless you go through the process.</p>

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<p>I agree, classicalmama. And that’s something I forgot to mention. While there are certain academic standards one needs to meet to “be in the game”, beyond that and within a range, the selection process and outcome can seem “random” sometimes, meaning someone who appears a “shoo-in” can be disappointed while someone who feels like a long shot may get in. Of course, by no means would I imply the whole process is “random” (and as a matter of fact, the AOs are doing it pretty methodologically!). However, at the individual level, things can go either way easily partly because an applicant being where they are don’t know what the school is looking for for this year’s class, and they don’t even know what the AO’s see in them long after they have been admitted! So yes, like classicalmama said, you won’t know unless you try.</p>

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<p>An important point to realize is that once you are “academically admissible” (and 75% of applicants are, according to Andover admissions) your chances depend on what the school is looking for that year. It may need more trumpets, more linebackers, more tennis players. If you are rejected one year, you may be accepted the next.</p>

<p>Your acceptance or rejection at highly competitive schools is NOT a reflection on your worth as a person. One interesting study showed that the “high wait list” to boarding school did as well as the “accepted” in college placement and life success. </p>

<p>So if your acceptance goes instead to the “underwater tuba player” from Montana this year, do not lose confidence, perhaps think about trying again, or widen your search now, or stay right where you already are and excel (and you may end up having a better chance at that highly selective college of your dreams when you stay home).</p>

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<p>This is similar to the advertisement I hear on the radio about the NY State Lottery.</p>

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<p>^^read the whole post and find the context. What BS are you in?</p>

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<p>Let me make my point more specifically. My kid, who had all the stats that Benley mentions above–different part of the country, 99% SSAT’s, etc., but also needed FA–had an athletic hook that we thought would help “hook” him into 2 of the 4 schools to which he applied. Except it didn’t. Exeter, on the other hand, didn’t have the sport. There were a few random things mentioned after he interviewed and was admitted that seemed to catch their interest, but nothing that we clearly saw, even after the fact, that made us say, oh, clearly it was the underwater tuba playing that they needed this year, lucky boy. He thought Exeter sounded like a place he’d fit well, he interviewed, he applied, he was accepted. You don’t know unless you try.</p>

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<p>It is
‘You can’t win if you don’t play’

  • Cal State Lottery</p>
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<p>We tried applying to a number of schools so that the sum of acceptance rates was at least 100%, more like 150%.
I’m sure this expectation value logic is faulty, but this forces one to add a couple of schools with >30% acceptance rates or face applying 12+ schools.
We got 2 acceptances so the logic wasn’t far off.</p>

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<p>Payn4ward, that’s pretty much what we are planning to do as well, even though I understand that the mathematical reality is that each of these dice rolls is independent of the others.</p>

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<p>payn4ward and twinsmama, that’s a legit approach. If the kid is a strong candidate for a school (determined by comparing their qualifications with the school’s published admissions data), then applying to more schools with similar selectivity may help them land one of them. Reason being, as mentioned earlier, every school has different institutional needs and they vary from year to year. “Outsiders” as applicants and families simply don’t know, but it’s less likely that all the highly selective schools are looking for the same types of kids, which your kid is not, for the same year. That’s why applying more will likely increase the odds of getting in one of them. That said, as payn4ward pointed out, it’s wise to add a few less selective schools in the mix even for a very strong candidate. I find it helpful to apply to a couple of day schools as well. They typically notify families of their decisions earlier in the year, which if positive would relieve a lot of stress while waiting for March 10!</p>

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<p>Most of the highly selective BS are located in NE or other parts of the east coast (e.g. Lawrenceville in NJ), have been around for many years, and are well known among people who are familiar with boarding schools in general. Most of them are well endowed, well-resourced and known for their academic rigor. Many of them have diversified student body and for many years have been reaching out to minorities, kids from lower SES and other parts of the country and the world. I’m not sure whether all the highly selective BS are collectively more generous in distributing financial aid. This is where we need more data for each individual school to prove one way or the other. We know Andover and Exeter are funding close to half of their students. Andover is need-blind and promises to meet 100% of the financial need of its admitted students. Exeter, although not need-blind, is just as generous.</p>

<p>A guaranteed high-quality high school education is not the patent of highly selective schools but it’s a surer bet with them. Students can learn not only from great faculty members in small classes but also from exceptional peers who are talented and motivated to pursue excellence. The class discussions, student-run on campus organizations and other extracurricular activities can be so much more interesting and enriching because of the strong peer groups. </p>

<p>Highly selective boarding schools are not the stereotypical private schools people who champion public schools often depict – that kids there are all privileged, nurtured or even pampered in a small bubble. In some ways they are like, and in some other ways are different from a competitive magnet school. Students are in a competitive environment but they don’t just compete academically they also compete in athletics, music and art, etc. Having gone through the challenging transition from being a big fish in a small pond to being a small fish in a big pond early in their life, they are trained to be more resilient, confident and mature in other ways. The motivational effect of the peers and the network they become part of can have a positive impact beyond their school years. </p>

<p>Attending a highly selective BS is not all “pleasant” for many though. You are pushed to work HARD to tap into your potential and the stress level can be very high during the school year, with high expectations of yourself and from people around you. While opportunities are abundant, you will need to compete for them. Academic honors, awards of different kinds, memberships in varsity teams, and leadership positions in student organizations are all merit based and competitively pursued. It’s becoming harder to stand out from peers around you even though without knowing it you’ve come a long way from where you started. Some can become burned out, a little too early in one’s life for that. Fortunately from what I have observed, the burning out effect often doesn’t last for very long. Most of them would pick up and move on to new challenges after a little wounds licking, all the more confident and capable.</p>

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<p>I have made some relevant comments in this thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1522198-bs-class-2013-matriculation-stats.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/prep-school-parents/1522198-bs-class-2013-matriculation-stats.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Interestingly, that thread ended with a question I think many students/families would and should ask before they start to explore the option of attending a highly selective BS. Is it worth the cost? And we are not only talking about financial cost but also costs such as being away from home at a young age for both the kid and their family. Since no BS is a true “feeder school” of any college nowadays, if your goal is to get in one of those target colleges, is it a risk worth taking?</p>

<p>To clarify, I am not of the position that what colleges one ends up with doesn’t matter as long as they have gone to a best high school. Schools matter at every level, IMO. But, there are 300+ boarding schools pursued by a tiny minority of the middle schoolers and we have identified at least 10 of them as “top tier”. Then when you have 3000 colleges to choose from and millions of high graduates are applying, how could the expectation that every student in a top boarding school should end up in the top 10 colleges otherwise it’s a failure not lead to disappointment? The math just doesn’t work that way. </p>

<p>Let’s say it’s true that going to a highly selective boarding school indeed hurts one’s chance of getting in a top college (although my answer would be it really depends, and it could help in some cases and hurt in others), what kind of “damage” are we talking about? Suppose you would be a “shoo-in” of HYP (if there’s such a thing) in your local school, assuming “you are you” all the way through high school wherever you are, then most likely you’d have a good shot at least at other ivies from the BS. Or, if you were an “ivy material” in your local school and unfortunately were “hurt” by your BS, then you are probably looking at the prospect of ending up at a non-ivy top 20 colleges… Seriously, how much damage is this to your career and life in the long run? On the other hand, what you can gain from your BS, IMO, is something much more impactful and beneficial to the rest of your life!</p>

<p>Anyways, good luck to all the new applicants! I hope this thread is useful to some of you. I’ll hang around this admission cycle. Feel free to ask questions or PM me.</p>

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<p>Whenever I see posts here where applicants are misspelling the names of the schools or are hoping that the admissions committees will overlook their “bad” 7th grade year, then I feel it’s somewhat justified to say, “Guess what? Not happening.” </p>

<p>But at the same time, I remember myself as an applicant - an intelligent, well-read rural kid with few extracurricular opportunities because my family didn’t have much money or special connections and I had no special hook. I was not a star athlete. My grades were good and my test scores were as well (94% SSAT back in the 90’s) and I’d done one special summer program, but that was it. I didn’t think I belonged in a school with “rich” people (sorry to stereotype - obviously it’s not true, since I did get in) and I thought everybody would look down on me because I didn’t have the right clothes, the right experiences, or the right anything. </p>

<p>I am very glad that no one told me to not bother applying, that there was nothing special about me (true) and I wouldn’t get in, and to just forget it. Is it so bad to try and fail? I tried and failed with some grad school applications later in life and it didn’t kill me. Kids are overly optimistic because they’re kids. They do know that it’s a rough road ahead with admissions, but if they know that they risk rejection and they’re willing to go for it anyway and their parents are willing to pay the fees, I say go for it. So what if a bunch of them get a tough life lesson early on? Won’t that actually remedy some of what CCers complain about - the sense of entitlement? </p>

<p>I understand wanting to let kids know the financial and emotional risks of applying to boarding school, but kids aren’t made of glass. They will recover from rejection. They’re not alone in this process, either; the parents are involved as well, and they can (hopefully) see around some of the same corners that we can and will cast a net of the size they deem appropriate. I don’t think trying to coat them in bubble wrap and shield them from disappointment (under the guise of wasting money or time) is always the best thing. Life is about taking calculated risks. This risk is relatively safe - you lose an application fee, maybe you cry. So some average Joe wants to shoot for Andover - so what? Better to receive a definitive “no” than to go throughout the rest of your life wondering.</p>

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<p>^^Good post! I want to speak to the notion that kids are not in the process alone and with strong family support they can overcome the possbile setbacks with personal experience. Not only right after DC decided to give those highly selective BS a try but throughout the application process up until March 10, as a family we repeatedly talked about the challenges and low odds of getting in. Ealier in the process it was used more as a motivator so DC would work hard to keep up his grades, achieve the highest SSAT scores possible while keeping up with his extracurricular activities, traveling out for school visits and working on the applications… And it turned out to be a busiest but most fulfilling year of his life by then! After the applications were submitted, the talks were more geared to prepare him for possible failures. So much so that I felt he was actually more ready than I was! The more difficult part for us is the finances. I wasn’t sure at all that we would be able to receive significant need-based financial aid based on our income at that time. For various reasons however we determined that we just didn’t have the budget for a very expensive HS, regardless what the EFC said. It’s not an easy topic to communicate on with a 14 year old, that there’s yet another major factor in the way that he had no control over… </p>

<p>Coming March 10, right from early morning, two waitlists came right in. DC was visibly shaken but took it “like a man”! Fortunately, in the middle of the day, a big FedEx envelope came in. In it was the admission letter with the INCREDIBLY generous financial aid from Andover! Looking back, it could easily be a different outcome, just as with the other two schools where DC was not less qualified for. But had that been the case, I would still be grateful for the experience of that year. He was a different kid, and matured so much within that one year. And we as a family founded news ways of communication and formed a new type of bond through the experience. And I knew right then if he was staying in the local school he’d be OK too.</p>

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<p>There are a lot of positive aspects to this process. It is giving our son a goal and a reason to work harder in school. He is getting practice in interviewing. His world is enlarging. I don’t see any negatives (other than the expense!). </p>

<p>Our son also knows that his life won’t end if he doesn’t get into a boarding school. He will do fine either way. I wish all the kids who want boarding school so badly would realize that too.</p>

<p>I agree with coconutcake; kids aren’t made of glass and they recover from this sort of rejection. My daughter has been involved in community theater since she was 7 or 8 and therefore has experienced a LOT of rejection. It has only made her more resilient.</p>

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<p>After securing a $250 million donation from an alumnus, Yale University is moving closer to building two new residential colleges so as to increase its undergraduate enrollment by 15% in a few years. The news release says that Yale College has not been expanded since 1969 but the number of applications has quadrupled since then, and that the new colleges will make Yale accessible to more excellent students they have to turn down each year.</p>

<p>This leads me to think - is it possibly an idea the trustees and school administration of some highly selective boarding schools ever play with? Some of these schools have college-sized endowment and a huge campus. Would increasing their enrollment moderately so more students have access to the great education they provide be a good idea? </p>

<p>I think smaller schools like Groton and SPS with some of the largest endowment/student whose admit rate has been going down year after year may have the potential of taking more students, if they are considering making their schools more accessible a priority.</p>

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<p>Well, one of the limitations both of the aforementioned schools have is the size of chapel. They have finite seating capacity at the chapel, and SPS for sure is maxed out. Currently even the dining hall at SPS is bursting, however a dining hall could potentially have a addition. Not sure how one would add onto a Gothic revival Chapel…</p>

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<p>Small boarding schools are usually intentionally small. The schools you named spend more on each student than is covered by full-pay tuition.</p>

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<p>Periwinkle, I agree they are intentionally small, and I know we will never have a world where every school has equal endowment/student because different schools have different visions on how their schools should be run and what their priorities are. It’s a “thought” of mine regarding the highly selective schools. To me, the resources they have allow them to be bigger so more students can have access to the stellar education they provide, IF the schools happen to think that’s some priority they should address at this point. Of course, to retain the same quality, they would probably need to hire more teachers, build a few more dorms and expand some other facilities etc., and I understand that would mean a major shift of priorities, and the schools may or may not be ready for that.</p>