Something has really been bothering me

Parents Forum
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<p>We have parent in our community who has two kids several years apart in age. Both kids are very bright, have good GPAs and scored well on the SATs. (I don't know their exact numbers, of course, but she made sure to tell everyone that each kid only took the SATs once.) Neither kid had anything else particularly special or "stand outish" about them, as far as I can tell. Both played a sport, but neither was a captain or particularly good at their sport. Both were in a variety of other clubs, but not in leadership positions. Both kids also got part-time jobs the summer before they had to apply to colleges.</p>

<p>The year that each one was applying to college, this parent volunteered in our school's college information center. I don't know what information she had access to by being there, although I do know that if you meet with someone there, a file is kept on your child which lists GPA and scores (provided by the parent) and other information, so that they can help with any college searching.</p>

<p>This parent only worked in the college information center during the last half of each kid's junior year and most of each kid's senior year.</p>

<p>Both kids were accepted to Ivy League schools ED. </p>

<p>Other kids in our school who, it seems anyway, had much stronger leadership experience, and (from what I hear) equally strong grades and scores, were rejected or deferred from the same schools.</p>

<p>I just can't figure out what made this parent's two kids stand out to these schools. I supposed it's possible that their grades and scores were very superior to everyone else's, but I'm not sure that is the case, and neither kid was val or sal. And I do think it's weird that the parent chose to work in the college center for a year and a half or so, then stopped, then went back to it for the next kid's timing, then stopped again.</p>

<p>It's really bothering me and I know I'll never know the whole story. But I can't help feeling like she somehow had access to information that may have helped her kids get in instead of other kids who seemed to be more deserving. </p>

<p>Lest you think this is sour grapes, it isn't really, as my own kid was not Ivy qualified (or even close) so was not competing against these kids (and is also younger than both). But I saw a lot of other truly amazing kids including a class president get rejected (not even deferred) from the same school during the same year and really just don't get it!! (Apparently I'm not alone, as many community parents are stumped as well!)</p>

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<p>rtr: hiyall…while I do agree that it sounds a bit suspicious about the volunteer work, I would hazard a guess that you (in the collective) do not know the whole story about the kids, the family, the (possible) donations, the (possible) connections that got these kids in…there’s always that shocking acceptance (or in this case acceptances) that drive the other kids insane…</p>

<p>there is sooo much about this process that we all still are in the dark about…even with all of the help and input on CC…at all level of schools…</p>

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<p>There may well be something that you and other parents are not aware of. Maybe a relative of theirs is an alum and made a large contribution to that school. Perhaps this parent would not reveal info like that so people wouldn’t say they bought their way in! </p>

<p>I remember that a student with better stats than my D did not get into UCONN. (We are OOS) But D’s grandparents are alumni. As I recall this classmate was stunned as he thought he would certainly get in. While the grandparents are not wealthy donors, perhaps this helped her out. What is nice is that they have that bond now, the 3 of them. Which makes it rather fun during football & basketball season as I am a Syracuse alum.</p>

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<p>My guess is just that she was very well-informed on how to present her kids’ best case in their applications. With a little knowledge you can help a student target their essay to themes that would play well at a certain college, you can maximize and highlight those small, but sometimes meaningful, differences between them and other similarly deserving students that might make them stand out a bit more just in terms of specific qualities or attributes that the particular schools might be tuned into.</p>

<p>Any parent can do this if they’re willing to put in the time and effort to learn about the process in general and college in particular. It doesn’t mean their kid will get admitted, but it can help them take their best shot.</p>

<p>I think it’s probably to the benefit of all students that a parent that knowledgeable is willing to volunteer her time to the college center at the school.</p>

<p>My kids are both in college (not Ivies) and I volunteer as a college advisor at the high school here. There have been many other activities, however, in the past that I volunteered as long as one of them was involved but not beyond that. I think that’s probably fairly typical.</p>

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<p>rtr - I sent you a PM, but 'rentof2 is spot on.</p>

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<p>I am trying to figure out what advantage her kids would have getting into an Ivy League college based on her volunteering in the high schools college information center. How would her kids benefit from that? I might be missing something but I can’t see what connection there is between her kids acceptance and her volunteer work.</p>

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<p>

Maybe they’re hard-working.

Maybe the parent became steeped in the culture of college applications and provided well-honed counsel and guidance at home

Some students have wild-and-wonderful EC’s outside the knowledge of a school community.

Double legacy parents? Then a sibling legacy? I’m just sayin’ anything’s possible.</p>

<p>Other possibilities: They weren’t val or sal because of a matter of mere decimal points, but their essays, LOR, one-time SAT sitting indicated brilliance.</p>

<p>Plus, every one of the rejected students might have also merited admission, but there weren’t enough seats to go around.</p>

<p>Only the admission committees see the entire application. The parent community doesn’t know everything about some of the quieter students.</p>

<p>Note: crossposted with 'rent of 2 and those below.</p>

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<p>This situation seems very suspicious. Have other parents confronted her about the situation? I would assume that as a college counselor, she probably had access to privied information, like the hooks that former students used to get into these schools or secret scholarships or secret admissions connections. Now if she had to guide other students, that would seem extremely suspicious. But think rationally for a minute: would this mother really want to sabotage another child’s dream by writing a bad recommendation or giving them the wrong college information? Probably not.</p>

<p>My best guess is that she had lots of secret connections and information to get students into the schools that they wanted to go to, and their usage was at her discretion.</p>

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<p>Everyone has come up with perfectly reasonable explanations. I imagine the parent volunteered because she knew she was going to be spending a lot of time researching for her kids anyway and better to be in the office with all the materials at hand. Having access to high school stats may help too. For example at our high school you have a MUCH better chance of being accepted at Harvard than you do at Stanford. </p>

<p>I also suspect these kids have things you don’t know about. Perhaps they didn’t have top GPAs because they took art or music on top of a regular schedule. Perhaps they work on projects/jobs at home. For example, my older son did a huge amount of computer related stuff that the school knew nothing about. We made sure it was a big part of his application. My younger son had a small business selling origami earrings at local galleries and also did some interesting work with a local neighborhood association. Both activities were featured in his essays and I think differentiated him from the run-of-the-mill editor of the yearbook type applications.</p>

<p>I really don’t think it’s a case of sabotage or secret connections.</p>

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<p>Started to post, but noticed paying3tuitions said many of the things I was going to say.</p>

<p>Sometimes students with really strong grades and tough schedules “fly under the rader” in high school. </p>

<p>I know a lot of students who participate in some awesome activities outside of school.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the input. Just to clarify, the two kids went to two different Ivies. </p>

<p>I don’t know what she does exactly in the college center; I think it’s more administrative. Parents who work there don’t advise students…only the person in charge of the center does that.</p>

<p>We live in a fairly small town and I think that if the kids were doing something extracurricular other than what I’ve listed, everyone would know. However, from what I’ve been told, both kids did a very good job of not telling a soul where they had applied until they got in.</p>

<p>It is true that the parent is constantly boasting about things, so that may be why people have their antennae up more about it.</p>

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<p>My favorite outside EC was done by a girl in my school who was a nationally ranked dirt bike racer! Not a particularly popular EC here in Fairfield county. I only knew about it because I’m a school nurse and tended to her bumps, bruises and lacerations during the week. She is a petite girl and looks like she would be totally into the Jonas Bros., etc. but this was her PASSION! No one at school really knew what she did.</p>

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<p>I agree that it wouldn’t have to be anything as sinister as secret connections or sabotage --just a bit of knowledge about which schools have accepted kids in the past with her kids’ scores, activities, etc. would help her know which schools to target. Also, she may have access to the names of the teachers who recommended the successful applicants in the past, which might be beneficial knowledge if you kid is trying to decide which teacher to ask. She also might have access to past student essays which would help her know if her own kids’ would measure up. There are a lot of small things when put together that could give her kids a boost.
I find it sort of unseemly, myself. She probably did nothing wrong or unethical- but she certainly seems to have given her kids an advantage that they didn’t actually earn, and I say “seems” because we don’t know. Personally, I’d wait until my kids were finished with their process before getting involved in that way.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I did get very involved with parent programs and committees (PTA type stuff) during their school years. Some people might think that my involvement led to my kids’ success in school. I know differently, but how would anyone else?
Best not to judge and just assume the that she had good intentions as a mom, wanted to be where the action was, and probably gleaned a tip or two, but frankly, unless the kids were pretty outstanding in some way, they would not have been admitted to their very selective colleges.</p>

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<p>Woody, that’s very cool. Did it help with college admission?</p>

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<p>Hmm… I am torn on this one. I tend to rely on intuitive responses to situations, and more often than not it turns out to be correct. The problem with this is that you can, on occasion be wrong, usually in an embarrassing if not outright spectacular way.</p>

<p>My first reaction is “if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, well…” The circumstantial evidence would make me suspicious. But in the end, what could really be proved? Grade or activity inflation? Sabotaging other applicants documents? There’s probably not be a smoking gun to be found.</p>

<p>I think you have to let it go - there’s probably nothing you can prove, and there is no resolution to be had for the feelings you are having about this. So try to say it is what it is, and put it behind you. Focus on your children and their future. At best you might anonymously suggest that they need to examine the safeguards they have in place concerning applicant’s data.</p>

<p>Also, the other posters are probably correct - there is probably a legacy or something that gave them an edge.</p>

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<p>

I don’t see how access to any information could have helped gain her kids admission to the Ivies. Even if she could see the other students’ records, I don’t see how it helps. The only thing that might make a difference is if she falsified records or prevented information from other students from going out somehow.</p>

<p>One legitimate reason for volunteering in these timeframes could be that she wanted to make absolutely sure in the most ‘helicopterish’ way, that her kids’ paperwork flowed okay and didn’t get hung up in some admin’s in or out box and not make it to the college.</p>

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<p>“Woody, that’s very cool. Did it help with college admission?” Well, she’s a soph now. I can’t say she would care one way or the other - a very different child.</p>

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<p>Aha! A small town! We lived in one of those during my D’s application process. What a misery. We functioned outside the established social circle of born-there families. She had no close friends until one in Sr. Year. </p>

<p>From h.s., when she boarded the bus every afternoon to ride to the BOCES (special education) campus, the other Honors Kids Parents assumed she was mentally challenged. They thought they knew everything that happened in every inch of that town, just because their kids all played T-Ball and dance recitaled together since age 4 – but they didn’t know everything. There were new experimental programs in the district; EC’s in arenas outside their town, regional leadership events that they never heard of or dismissed because they were religious/ethnic/cooperative without awards or fanfare… not academic/competitive Olympiads that made the newspapers.</p>

<p>Other parents didn’t know our D’s daily afternoon coursework was a pilot program for Media Studies, housed on the special education campus serving several districts. There, she learned how to handle TV cameras, radio equipment. She ended up with National Honor Society from her morning academic honors classes AND National Vocational-Technical Honor Society from the Media Studies afternoon program. The two schools had separate graduations. Nobody ever knew her course of studies. Her college, however, was most interested; it was unusual. </p>

<p>Something to reflect on is whether this parent in your town can both be “boastful” and teach her kids not to share where they’re applying until they’re accepted.</p>

<p>My intuition (based on a triggered nerve, obviously) is their small-town presumptions of “knowing everything that happens in town” has a few loopholes.</p>

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<p>Small town here as well. Moved here during son’s start of sophomore year. Just weeks before graduation he was announced as val and most if not all fellow student’s were beyond surprised. Same was true when others discovered his EA acceptance to MIT and CalTech and his eventual matriculation to p’ton. </p>

<p>As a very “social” student and jock most assumed he would pursue an athletic scholie as his older sis had done. Especially since his sports were the ever intellectually stimulating wrestling and of course in our family football. As the ever popular laid-back “goof” and ladies-man only his math prof and GC knew of his cancer research at Duke and UNC’s med schools, his sports buddies thought he was “tardy” or absent from summer practices and off-season workouts but in reality he was teaching himself orgo and genetics to be more effective in the labs.</p>

<p>And it wasn’t because he was secretive, just the opposite, its the same as he has always been and still is, he compartmentalizes different aspects of his life, so he can better enjoy each of his “moments”. Some does spill over, tutoring his team mates, study groups for Calc and other sciences.</p>

<p>So it did come as a huge surprise to many of his friends as well as their parents, school officials and others of his acceptances. His 3 appointments to the service academies were also shocking to others and even more so his on-going inner turmoil between his very late decision between the Point and pton, 4/29.</p>

<p>So I can see how this can happen. Did here. Couple times over with my five kiddos…albeit good AND less than desirable!</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>She’s boastful. She gained access to the info center so she’d get an edge of some sort, to insure that she’d have something more about her kids to boast about.</p>

<p>But how?</p>

<p>Maybe she learned enough about who-gets-in-where to steer her kids to admission success. Maybe she befriended the counselors so they would advise her especially. </p>

<p>Maybe she stuck around the info center long enough to learn the dirt on someone, then blackmailed them into writing a fictional recommendation? ;)</p>