<p>Thanks for sharing the information. It's clear that this could happen to any kid first semester. I think Jamimom's post is very useful - she always seems to have good insights.</p>
<p>I just want to say how immensely helpful it is to hear from all of you. This is a wonderful forum. Thank you so much for sharing your stories, thoughts and words of encouragement. There's lot of collective wisdom here! The support we didn't get from the school I'm finding right now from other parents... and it will go a long way toward helping us process this experience for ourselves and move on in a productive way. I'm very grateful.</p>
<p>Ok I am going to sound clueless, both with 2 kids in college and THREE in high school I should know the answer to my next question.</p>
<p>We live in North Carolina and I have never heard of Guilford college. Where is it?</p>
<p>My oldest attends a big state university here and 2 of the high schoolers are contacted either through mail, email or phone weekly from local colleges. And again I have never heard of the school. I do know the usual suspects and even the smaller hidden ones because kiddos have had meets, matches, games, club events and seminars at some of the schools but they have never heard of Guildford either.</p>
<p>I do wish the OP and her son the very best and it is best for him to move on and restore his confidence in his own academic abilities.</p>
<p>I can honestly say that your son's experience (and the lack of guidance and diplomacy on the school's part) does not sit well with me or my kiddos when I told them of the situation. With a junior and senior in high school and with one on track to be valedictorian, the school will only get bad press from us and we live in North Carolina.</p>
<p>Thanks for the heads up about the school. Kids will let their friends know and their GCs.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>Kawkittens, It's in Greensboro. It's a quaker school.</p>
<p>What kind of ADVISOR lets a first semester freshman get kicked out of college for failing his own course, especially a course on adjusting to college life?</p>
<p>Sac's question hits the nail on the head. I can imagine a scenario in which neither a freshman nor his advisor realized just how bad his grades were going to be--but not when that advisor was teaching one of the courses the student was failing. If the teacher/advisor truly did nothing to try to help your son or to warn him that he was in real and present danger of being kicked out, Guilford's claims for its first year program ("There is the expectation of very close monitoring of academic progress by the advisor during the first, tenuous months of the college experience") seem downright fraudulent.</p>
<p>Thanks Carolyn. We are not far from Greensboro and yet, first time I have heard it mentioned was on this post. Many of the students at my kiddos high school attend all kinds of schools and they publish a list every year of where all the seniors are headed off to. This one hasn't appeared on the list for as far back as the records go.</p>
<p>Interesting.</p>
<p>Maybe its one of those schools were locals don't attend.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>Yes, it attracts a majority of out of state students I believe.</p>
<p>However, I think we have to be careful about bashing any particular school. While lbr's son had an unfortunate experience at Guilford, I do know that many students have been happy and done well there. Let's be careful not to make too many conclusions based on one person's experiences, especially when we do not have the school's side of the story. What is a great school for one person, may simply not be right for another so let's not rush to generalizations.</p>
<p>Carolyn, you're probably right--I'm glad that I read your post before writing this, which is exactly that: a rush to generalizations. I just really don't understand, though, a school that would let a student go after one semester, with no attempt to sit down with the student and parents and explain the situation. </p>
<p>I realize all the rules about dealing with young adults and their privacy and not being able to call the parents in without violating the student's right to privacy. I just think the whole thing is a shame and I really feel for this family. </p>
<p>It has never occurred to me that a school would be this harsh. Expelling a student for issues that affect other students' well-being I understand. I also understand expelling a student later in their college career with one dismal semester, I guess. But my goodness, expelling a freshman after a couple of dismal months? I honestly don't get it. </p>
<p>I guess it'll teach me to check in with my kids on their grades once in a while.....</p>
<p>Well, just one point..</p>
<p>I think it's quite possible that the prof was telling the truth when he said he couldn't accept late work, even with an excuse.At some schools you can't turn in work late UNLESS you asked for an extension of time BEFORE the due date and had it granted before the due date OR ,if your excuse is illness, you go to the infirmary or student health center at the time you are ill and have the doctor decide whether you are sick enough that you can't do the work. </p>
<p>I'm not saying that the way Guilford handled this is correct or that a school should throw a student out after one semester. I'm just saying that there's a good chance the prof really did NOT have authority to accept work late. It's not an uncommon policy. If whatever the prof didn't take counted for a large percentage of the final grade, that would explain the F, despite a passing grade half way through the semester.</p>
<p>I would suggest that the very first step is to get the son to sign a statement waiving his right to privacy and allowing the college to give any information to his parents. The statement should probably be notarized. Because unless and until he does this, the college isn't going to tell the parents anything.</p>
<p>I have avoided mentioning my kids' schools for a number of reasons. Mainly their privacy, potential problems with identifying ones self and situations without knowing the audience, but also because we have had some bad experiences, unhappy situations at schools where many families have done well. There are often underlying issues that are difficult to see when you in the heat of the situation.</p>
<p>However, as my posts have indicated, I am not impressed overall with the degree of communication and information at most schools. It was heartwarming to read that thread about the wonderful advising kids have gotten from a variety of schools, but that has not been our experience. My daughter is currently heartbroken and ever so upset about a situation that her advisor should have foreseen--I foresaw and brought it up and was told I didn't know what I was talking about. And the college is completely unable to answer some questions when it is their business. I am going to personally get some answers by going directly to the source, something the college is not willing to do. My son was a not so loving handful at his college, but some of his issues really should have been addressed. The medical situation alone is frightening. My niece also had some snags that made me upset at the time, because, again, I felt that the college should have been more prescient about things that they deal with so often, and if I can see the issues, why can't they? I would not depend on the college to take care of your student. THere was a recent article on mental health issues at college, and it seems tha the way colleges often deal with some of those issues is by demanding the student to leave if a flag is raised. Too risky otherwise, and it is not their area of expertise. It is baffling to me how my friend 's son was a term behind the 8 ball the day he registered at his school, because he was slow in doing so and the classes he would need were gone. </p>
<p>The school does owe the OP's son and parents a conference with this "advisor" there, to give their take on the situation simply because there is information to be gleaned from this that could possibly be important.</p>
<p>I don't think a community college is a bad idea either. I imagine winter quarter has already started, but by taking a spring quarter class, maybe even part time ( if he goes part time he can defer beginning to pay back loans) in something that appeals to him, he can work out his time management issues as well as show himself that he can be successful in a college class. kind of the "get back on the horse" idea. Then he can decide if he wants to take time off in a planned fashion, or apply to possibly a rolling admission school where he doesn't have to take so many different classes.</p>
<p>Maybe it is not a bad idea, Emeraldkity. With my nephew it was. To jump right into a situation before figuring out the problem often means bringing that nasty baggage right with you. Community College is not necessarlly easier than a competitive school. The impersonal ways some of those classes are taught can be a shock to kids used to more attention. My son hated community college, and he probably would have dropped his courses except I anticipated his reactions and was right there, having lived through this already, and knowing my son. He did not really get himself through those courses beyond showing up for the classes (one big point in his favor--he does not cut class)--I was right on top of him. He would not have thought a second about losing what he paid for those courses. Fortunately the courses were very much canned, so since he was going to class and had already had the material at a higher level, though he flunked the course, with my providing a structure and sitting on him, he was able to get by even though he had a rocky start because of his attitude. He is now taking night classes at a State U as he works full time, and did mention that it is reminiscent of his days of CC, and that he did learn from those days, and had he not done his time that summer, he would have dropped the two courses he is currently taking. I can tell you it was not a pleasant summer for him, nor for me, however.</p>
<p>Patient, I checked several different college web sites and found that many DO in fact have a policy of kicking kids out without probation if their GPA falls below 1.0. So that isn't uncommon (Even Yale has this policy, although it is not stated as clearly and forthrightly as it is in Guilfords' academic guidelines.).</p>
<p>Carolyn--You know what? I really don't CARE that it is the policy of many schools. Just because they all do it does not necessarily make it right, nor does it excuse the harsh and uncommunicative treatment this mom has received. I think that to kick out a kid without even the courtesy of a closure-providing conference is horrible. Think of the time and anguish such a conference could have avoided. She has not really complained about the result so much as the lack of courtesy to even give her the time of day. A president not returning a communication asking for some information about her son being kicked out? Sorry, I think that is at least dumb public relations, and at worst heartless.</p>
<p>It makes me want to re-think the idea of these privacy rules that have kids in deep academic or psychological trouble and the schools not being able to communicate with the family. Sometimes we take our constitutional rights to rather harmful and ridiculous extremes. P.S. Checked Stanford's policy btw--there is a succession of steps for kids not achieving a 2.0, beginning with academic probation and notices to student and advisor, progressing after another quarter to provisional registration, and then suspension (not expulsion) for a year. Also an outlined grievance procedure. A more humane policy it appears.</p>
<p>The privacy issue is not a big deal. It is very easy to get around that. A letter to the parents explaining the policy with a waiver that the kid needs to sign and for the parents to be notified if the kid retracts the waiver. The colleges are strict enough about sticking to the parents being responsible for the payment and choice of a college education; try getting a kid in a school where the parents just refuse to pay or fill out the financial aid forms. I agree with you, Patient, that some form of a reply is necessary. The college should have at least told the parent that they are investigating the matter.</p>
<p>The 1.0 rule has been around for a while, and it is coldly enforced at many schools as this is the arbitrary threshhold determined as the point of no return for these schools. They do not want kids who get a 1.0 or less. But it is not a point that is brought up to the parents that a kid will be summarily dismissed if this happens. There should have been an exit interview, in my opinion, simply because it is the right thing to do. A note to come and clean out the room ASAP sent while the school is closed is a cowardly way to approach the situation regardless of what the kid did or did not do. The school could have communicated the situation in a much gentler way with the same result--the student dismissed. Also, as far as I am concerned, a student who is dismissed should have been told in person, not via mail. The kid lives there; he is a part of the community. It should not be communicated in an auto letter spit out as the grades are calculated. And I know of at least one school that operates that way--it's academic manual specifically addresses this situation and says that the school may give no warning at all as the consequence is immediate upon all receipt of all of the grades. Pretty cold, in my opinion.</p>
<p>Jamimom, I agree with you. The kid is part of a community and should have been told in person at the VERY least. Cowardly is a good way to define their actions. Hostile is another.</p>
<p>I know I will regret this , but am I the only one here wondering why the op's son's actions aren't subject to the same microscopic analysis we are performing on the school? The school clearly and without question get's bad marks for sensitivity under all circumstances that I can think up but there remains the reason for the action by the school in the first place. I asked several questions to the OP concerning the nature of the poor grades (test, papers, projects,labs) and I still wonder about that. I asked whether or not they felt he was properly prepared for college coursework when he arrived. I asked about excessive absences prior to and including his illness, the nature of the absences and whether or not they were excused. I suggested (and not judgmentally either) that it was at least a possibility that some of the problem was self-induced. I did not receive a response. I assume that it was the choice of the OP not to divulge. </p>
<p>I guess what I'm saying is that I have a totally different take on an industrious hard working kid who missed class because of documented illness and whose extracurricular life was not a problem, than I do with the kid I was my first semester in college. I don't believe we do the young man or his parents' any favors by ignoring the possibility at least that his own actions had something to do with the problem. We have not been made privvy to enough data to rule out that possibility, which is of course the OP's choice to make. It just appears to me that they've made it difficult for us to offer an informed opinion on the entire situation much less malign a respected college. We don't know that there hadn't been one or more instances or other factors which made it less likely that the college would have been receptive to the parent's pleas. </p>
<p>(I know this is not directly OT and I am not talking about the OP's son but I will use myself as an illustration again to make a point. During that first year coma of mine , I have a cloudy memory of cutting a math course 11 of the allowable 11 cuts early in the semester. The rule was clear, 12 cuts= F, and it didn't matter if it was excused or not. Of course, I got sick and missed another class or two. I documented the illness, begged and begged and the prof let me back in. When grades were released after the cumulative final, I had a 89.5 when a 90 was an A. He gave me a B. When I complained he asked me if I wanted him to remember the 11 unexcused absences. I told him "No, that's O.K". and slunk away. Sometimes we can use up all our "chits" early in the game.)</p>
<p>My roommates boyfriend failed out of our school after his first semester of freshman year. I don't remember what his gpa was, but it was grounds for him getting kicked out. he had to take a certain amount of credits at another school and raise his gpa over a certain amount till he could be readmitted. he took courses at his community college at home for the spring semester, as well as for the summer semesters, and got admitted back in for the Fall semester of his Sophomore year. he was admitted on academic probation and had to raise his grades by the end of the semester or year (i forget which) to get off. he did, and everything was good. he decided last year that he wanted to transfer and is now going to Culinary school in Maryland.</p>
<p>just try to do the best to get him at school somewhere :)</p>
<p>Curmudgeon makes some good points. And I'm saying this as a mom who's been in the position of having my kid not do well when other kids apparently were. We were unhappy with almost his entire high school experience and yet we had to acknowledge that a lot of it was him, period. He was just difficult. Bright but bored. Almost perfect verbal SATs and barely dragged through high school with a 2.1! We really don't know what was going on with the OP's son. I agree that it makes more sense to put energy into sorting out WHY he failed to get a grip on what was going on and less energy into being outraged at the school. Even though I'm truly sympathetic to the parents for having this dropped on them!</p>
<p>Just a comment.....
When I was in college, I attended a public university. (A UC campus). The place was huge and in many ways impersonal -- if I had a Freshman advisor I certainly never knew about it. But there was tremendous flexibility about courses & course requirements - on a quarter schedule we could drop& add or shift to pass/fail midway through the quarter, and there were all sorts of classes to choose from. I mean - you could always add in what we used to refer to as a mickey-mouse course to pick up extra units. If a kid messed up with an incomplete or an F, they could make up the course over a summer session - and tuition was cheap -- many kids took a little longer than planned to graduate.</p>
<p>My son was admitted to 3 campuses in the UC system, but chose an expensive private LAC, chosen partly because of its advising system and small classes. I thought it would be a supportive place and that there would be no falling through the cracks. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case -- we had a problem similar to what Emeraldkity describes. Basically, my son had an incomplete in a class, and there was no realistic way to make it up without either him getting permission to add an extra course with a significant increase in tuition, or to fail to graduate in 4 years (with no hope of financial aid for a 5th year) ... or else he would have had to make up the course at another campus. It is possible that he could have salvaged things with AP credits...I don't know, because we didn't explore that option. But the point is, the small supportive LAC turned out to simply lack an element of flexibility that big impersonal public universities have... and I couldn't afford what it would have cost for my son to make up the units. </p>
<p>I have no doubt that my son had a good experience in the 2 years he did attend his LAC -- he did very well in some of his other classes, and he had enjoyed the class where he got the incomplete. I think part of his problem was just adjusting to the demands of college -- he probably just got overloaded and fell behind. I have no guarantee he would have done any better at a large university ... just that it would have been a lot cheaper and easier to fix things within the state university system (especially in California, where of course it is very easy to transfer units from the community college system). </p>
<p>I don't regret our private LAC "experiment" -- but in hindsight I think that we made the mistake of both overvaluing the expected "support" of a small LAC and undervalueing the resources of the state university system. I mean, the bottom line is that a kid could take 6 years to graduate at their in-state university and it would probably cost their parents less than 4 years at most private colleges ... and maybe those of us who are attracted to the LAC because we see our kids as needing the extra support and nurturing should at least think twice about what will happen if the kid falters along the way.</p>