<p>Son is a rising HS senior. He has taken every math class in sequence, beginning iwth pre-algebra in 8th grade and including algebra 1 and 2, geometry, trig, and pre-calculus. He has not liked a single one of them--he has studied and gotten A's but I do think he has just learned it for the test rather than really embraced it. Now facing his senior year schedule there are other classes he wants to take (serious, academic classes like economics and AP government) that he will not be able to if he takes calculus. The only reason I can think of to encourage him to take the caluclus class is that I have read that the more selective colleges want the whole sequence of math, and might count it against him that he did not take the highest math class offered by his high school. How much should this weigh in his decision?</p>
<p>Many fields of study in college require calculus. There is a lot to be said for meeting that requirement next year.</p>
<p>Since he has done well on previous math courses, he might as well take Calculus. It will give him many more options when he applies to college. Plus, it makes him that much more of a well-rounded and educated person. Why wouldn't your son be able to take Econ or AP Govt along with Calc? </p>
<p>This fall, my son will be attending a highly selective LAC (always in the top ten), and is a humanities major, but took AP Calc AB during his senior year of hs. He absolutely screamed and moaned every week about it, but I'm convinced that it made the difference in his getting accepted early, while friends who didn't take Calc (and AP Bio - impt, too) but had equivalent GPA and scores got into very good, but 2nd tier LAC's; and rejected from the highly selective LAC's. Not a terrible result, but some did have their hearts set on the 1st tier. </p>
<p>When the guidance counselor checks off the degree of difficulty of your son's curriculum, it's a bonus to have the one that indicates he is taking the most rigorous, or whatever the verbage is. It's nice not to feel one down from the beginning. All silly issues, but there you have it. Some schools have to draw the line somewhere. And if the decision is between two kids with similar grades, backgrounds, ec's etc, the adcom might just choose the one whose curriculum was more challenging.</p>
<p>I think it looks quite bad if you don't finish math (calculus generally being considered the conclusion of the high school math curriculum). You need to finish your core subjects. Imagine how it would look if he just didn't take the last year of English or Science or History. APs are nice, but you've got to complete the high school level stuff first.</p>
<p>OP, you could be talking about my D (and I asked the same question last year!) ; she did not take Calc. Small school, limited options; schedule conflict with AP Econ and gov.</p>
<p>It would be terrible; I would be devastated, but I, in his position, would give up nearly anything for a calculus one course, if it's offered.</p>
<p>It's simply too important a class to be missed out. Econ is studying. Calculus is fundamentals. There's something to be said for being able to really understand a very difficult class, and calculus is a prime example. </p>
<p>If he'll have to take it in college, ask him whether he'd like to take it in high school, where he has a lot more contact time with his teacher and a full 9 months to learn the material, or if he'd like to condense it all down into a single semester of the most grueling class he's trying to avoid. It's a pretty obvious answer.</p>
<p>What schools does he plan to apply to? What is the prospective major?</p>
<p>My daughter did not take math beyond algebra II in high school, which she completed her sophomore year. This was because she spent a semester abroad in 11th grade and had scheduling issues after she returned. Also she doesn't like math. (She attempted trig at community college over the summer, but couldn't keep up with the accelerated pace, so she ended up withdrawing). </p>
<p>She was admitted to Univ of Chicago, Berkeley, and to Barnard, as well as many other colleges. </p>
<p>I don't think the math was an issue because her strength and focus was elsewhere -- she was extremely weak in math but exceptionally strong in study of one foreign language. </p>
<p>So bottom line: if your son is interested and likely to major in history or philosophy or English -- it probably doesn't matter whether he takes calculus. Given that he prefers econ and AP government I am going to assume that he isn't planning to study chemistry or engineering.</p>
<p>I'd note that both my kids only took basic statistics courses in college to meet general ed. math requirements -- calculus certainly is not required for students focusing in humanities. Both my kids are poli sci majors -- a field where I think statistics and econ are very valuable. </p>
<p>Bottom line: let your son make the decision, and don't believe the horror stories about college admissions.</p>
<p>A friend of mine did his thesis on the value of APCalc v. APStat for the college-bound HS student. Stats was the winner. On the other hand, if your S will study econ in college, Calc is really necessary.</p>
<p>Does this help? Neither of my sons took calculus in high school. First graduated from Umich engineering with a math minor. Second from Umich with an economics major.</p>
<p>Chill parents.</p>
<p>I urged my D to take AP Calc (only calculus class available at her school). I knew going into it that she was a poor match to the teacher's style, and if I could do it over again I wouldn't push it, but I was worried about no math in senior year. She will be taking some econ classes next year, so maybe it will come in handy, but on the other hand, I'm really not sure how much stuck.</p>
<p>Would he plan to take calculus in college?</p>
<p>I asked this question a couple of years ago when I had read The Gatekeepers, and it talked about files being flagged because the student had not taken calculus. My daughter hated math, and her SAT score was very lopsided to reflect that hatred. Her ECs were also lopsided and reflected, on the other hand, her love of English and writing. Bottom line, she got in almost every place she applied, including 2 of the 4 Ivies she applied to (waitlisted at H and rejected at Yale). Although, of course, one never knows, I doubt very seriously that it was the lack of Calculus that made the difference at H and Y. Anyway, if your son can make a more productive use of the time doing something he really loves, then I would not stress over a feeling that he "needs" calculus.</p>
<p>Taking AP-Calc is not truly necessary. S1 did not and had great admissions results (albeit 9 years ago). BUT: a lot of colleges will not give credit for AP Econ and AP-Gov. As well, if he wants to take Economics in college, a foundation in calculus is important.</p>
<p>S didnt take calc in HS, he took AP Stat instead,with AP Economics. He's attending a flagship State U in the South ,Honors College on full ride scholarship. I dont think the lack of calc hurt him he also was admitted elsewhere with big scholarship but he wasnt shooting for Ivy level schools, or techie heavy schools. He did need the calc in college for his major but took it in a semester where he balanced it with interesting classes, not the grind of AP after AP, 5 days a week.. Wound up with an A in the college class.</p>
<p>As others have pointed out, calculus is not necessary for college admissions, though skipping the capstone math class could raise eyebrows at highly competitive schools. The main thing, though, is to learn calculus at some point. Can S can be relied upon to do that in college?</p>
<p>Why is that the main thing? BAck in the day, I did take Calc in HS. Went on to be an English major, never took any math again, never used calc in any capacity, couldn't do it now if my life depended on it. I don't think that if I'd skipped it (got an A, btw, was one of the top students in class), it would have changed my life in any way.</p>
<p>As several posters have said, ignoring Calculus in HS is not a career breaker. (It wasn't even offered at my rural HS.) There are certainly some HS Calc courses that are poorly taught, and others that give students a false sense of security going into college. BUT a lot of kids, my D included, found that understanding Calculus well enough to apply it REQUIRED some repetition. "Ma, I'll take Calculus in college" is arguably OK. As a college freshman "Ma, I had to drop Calculus because it was too hard" isn't. (And neither is "Ma I didn't do well in my other courses because I spent so much time studying Calculus.") As ADad points out, your S needs to learn Calc at some point.</p>
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As ADad points out, your S needs to learn Calc at some point.
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<p>As I said before, why? That seems to depend on the major. True, it's a good intellectual challenge, but there are many other kinds of classes that also are.</p>
<p>He will have harder time in college taking calculus. However, if his major will not require calculus, then I do not see any point of torturing himself. But if it is a requirement in his future major, I would advise to take it in HS.
My D. had similar situation with History. That was a torture with enormous effort on her side. However, instead of avoiding it, she took AP US History in High School, put a ton of effort to get "5" on AP exam to avoid taking it in college. She is free of it for the rest of her life!</p>
<p>My son dropped out of CalculusAB this past year (junior year). He didn't like the teacher, and math is a subject he has to work at (did score over 700 on the SAT1, though). He is going to be a poli sci major. He does extremely well in the social sciences and in English. Next year he is going to take AP Stats. Because he is also interested in economics (studied it as an independent study this past year because our school system does not offer it), he realizes that if he continues to study economics, he will have to take calculus at some point. I'm thinking it would be good to take it at the cc either next summer or another summer. That would have been what he did this summer, if he hadn't been selected to attend our state's summer residential Governor's School.</p>
<p>He is also not taking AP Spanish next year. He isn't taking any foreign language. His GC nagged him to sign up for AP Physics. He is refusing. (He will take regular Physics -- no honors science courses in our school system.) </p>
<p>He does need to check with his GC to make sure that "most rigorous curriculum" box will be checked by her on his Common App. She was out this past school year on maternity leave and the intern said the "most rigorous box" would probably still be checked, but s needs to hear that from the GC. </p>
<p>I think taking calculus at a cc is a win-win situation (provided the university/college accepts the credit). If he'd taken it this summer, the grade would have been shielded from his GPA, and if he takes it while in college, the credits but not the grade are counted (he wants law school, so every grade will count in undergrad). </p>
<p>Has he committed an unpardonable college admissions sin for the most selective colleges? Who knows? But if a college is going to turn him down (and ignore his talents and accomplishments) because he didn't take calculus while in high school....too bad!</p>