Son is interested in teaching HS ... which path to take?

Parents Forum
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<p>My son is in his third year of college as a chemistry major. He recently received the rather shocking news from his advisor that he will be eligible to graduate in June. It looks to me like he has several paths to the goal of being a HS science teacher:</p>

<li>Apply to his school’s urban teaching program now (as an undergrad): he would take an education course next year as a senior, and then enter the school’s Masters/Cert program that offers a lot of financial aid. </li>
<li><p>Graduate early and attend a teaching certification program in some state or other; find a job, do master’s work later.</p></li>
<li><p>Apply to Teach for America - either graduating early or on time.</p></li>
<li><p>Graduate early, follow a good lead and begin teaching under a preliminary certification. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>He is currently torn - wants to have another year at his beloved college, wants to be out in the world. We have told him the money for his 4th year tuition could be applied to help with a cert or masters program or house, for that matter. The catch to this all is that he won’t know if his college’s urban teaching program offers a HS cert until March (likely after the RA deadline). </p>

<p>Any thoughts?</p>

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<p>A few thoughts to consider: There are some states that will waive/alter the traditional teaching certification program; however, most states still require 12-15 credits in education plus at least a semester of student teaching. Bear in mind that private schools don't always have the same requirements as public schools. Teach for America will not provide that all-important credential, although it does provide a good sense of real-world experience just in case teaching is not you S's 'cup of tea'. Another thought--many school districts provide tuition reimbursement for grad credits. He may want to get a job first and use those benefits. There is a real need for science teachers in some parts of the country and traditional training requirements are being altered to accommodate that shortage. Good luck to your S--there is real need for good teachers!</p>

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<p>As a former high school teacher, I'd go with #1. Teachers with a masters degree are paid more, and if it has financial aid, so much the better. If he does grad school later, he will have to do it while teaching. That's exhausting, quite frankly, and if you add on possible family obligations, it's even tougher. People do it, mind you, but they usually wish they had gotten it out of the way immediately.</p>

<h1>2 doesn't make any sense. if he applies to a teacher cert program elsewhere, what will he get that he won't get at this school? If he likes the school he's at, it's silly to move for teacher cert.</h1>

<h1>3 is certainly an option no matter what he does. But in some areas, Teach for America is not run well and is kind of a nightmare experience for first-year teachers. If he wants to teach in underprivileged areas, he can certainly do so with or without Teach for America - and he can eat and pay rent, too!</h1>

<h1>4 - I don't recommend it. Preliminary certs are fine if a person is changing careers, but regular certification has many advantages. Better districts will sometimes not consider a preliminary cert (I assume you mean alternative cert by this). There are also plenty of hoops to jump through for alt cert, all while trying to survive the first year of teaching. Better to get the regular cert if he can.</h1>

<p>If the concern is whether his program will offer cert or not, I would apply to the program at his school as well as other masters programs that definitely offer cert. That way he has options if the program at his school falls through.</p>

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<p>S's friend graduated last year from Harvard with a degree in math and is now teaching. She went through a program called UTEP which requires that she take certain courses in the teaching of math, a course in education and a semester-long practicum. I believe she will still have to get her teaching certification. I don't know whether she will need to do something specific, as she plans to stay in MA. Ordinarily, teacher's certification is by the state and may not not be transferable. Your son should look into the requirements for the degree, and consider the likelihood of staying in the state where he will be getting his degree.</p>

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<p>Marite makes an excellent point regarding transferring certifications. I agree with her suggestion to get the certification in the state in which your son intends to teach. No point in jumping through two sets of hoops if you can avoid it.</p>

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<p>I am a teacher too and my sense is that it is imperitive to get credentialing coursework under your belt before being "thrown to the wolves." Seriously, teaching is hard and it helps to have tools to deal with the kinds of situations your S will be confronted with before he gets his first classroom. Option 1 makes the most sense to me.</p>

<p>A significant proportion of teachers don't make it past the first two years. You increase your odds of success by being more prepared and having the support of mentors before you step into your own classroom.</p>

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<p>I'm told reciprocity among states is finally becoming reality in some parts of the country. Most states require teacher certification. Colleges that grant teacher certification usually have an official who can answer these questions for your S. As for getting the Master's before obtaining a job, there are districts that hire a B.S. candidate rather than a Master's candidate simply due to budgetary constraints. If S has had no prior experience in education, a TFA-type program will allow him to take teaching for a test drive without having wasted time on education classes he won't otherwise find useful. Unless he is certain that he wants to teach, obtaining a Master's degree in education can be money down the drain if he opts for another career. Teaching is hard work and many don't survive the first few years.</p>

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<p>Having transferred my teaching certificate to two different states and researched even more, I can tell you that it's not really an issue anymore. Most states have reciprocity, which means that your cert is transferred with few hoops other than paperwork. Some may require an extra cert test. Keep in mind that if you do a cert program in State A, you don't have to apply for cert in that state. You can apply straight to State B. All State B will need is transcripts and usually a paper signed by your program. You can then take whatever tests are necessary in the state you intend to teach, eliminating possible doubling-up of cert testing.</p>

<p>The only issue is if State B requires certain classes that State A doesn't require. That's easily remedied by being aware of the requirements in State B and opting to fulfill them while in your program (all programs will work with you on this). If for some reason that was not an option, states will typically grant a provisional cert (not the same as an alternative cert), which is usually good for one year. It's exactly the same as a regular cert, but it gives you an extra year or two to finish taking, say, that extra math class or methods class.</p>

<p>Otherwise, doing a program in one state and applying for cert in another is no big deal at all.</p>

<p>Oh, and as far as the BA vs. MA issue - for chemistry, it won't be an issue. There may be budgetary restraints in some districts, but that generally applies to oversupplied fields, such as social studies. Math and science (especially chem and physics) don't have that issue, because there simply aren't enough teachers to fill the spots anyway. There isn't room to be picky. Plus, the testing push in math and science allows greater flexibility in advanced degrees for math and science.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Son is interested in teaching HS ... which path to take? </p>

<p>My son is in his third year of college as a chemistry major. He recently received the rather shocking news from his advisor that he will be eligible to graduate in June. It looks to me like he has several paths to the goal of being a HS science teacher ...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I can't offer any suggestions because I don't know! However, I wanted to add how wonderful it is to read that a chemistry major is considering becoming a HS science teacher, and teach in a discipline in which he gained knowledge and experience. In today's environment, this is priceless. I applaud OM's son!</p>

<p>After all, there IS hope on the way.</p>

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<p>I'm also excited that someone else's son wants to be a science teacher!</p>

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<p>He could also consider teaching in a private school. The pay is lower, yes, but you may not need education courses, and could get right into teaching while getting ed courses later, if that's what he wants. Private school teaching is very different from public, and is often a very nice job. I have been teaching in a private school for 27 years, and wouldn't trade for anything! I never took an ed course, as is the case for many of my colleagues, and we are all very good teachers.</p>

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<p>As a former HS chemistry teacher, my advice would be to get the masters and the cert as soon as possible. With those in hand, he can go anywhere he wants and transfer his credentials. If he's done after three years, he should consider adding a second degree or a strong minor--biology, math or physics comes to mind--to his experience, as he would then be extremely desirable to the public schools.</p>

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<p>dmd, would you advise getting real-world experience before going into teaching? You know what I mean -- experience as a chemist or whatever before going into the classroom full time.</p>

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<p>Teacher spouse - teacher of chemistry, too :). Get your masters and the certificate. Some education courses are fluff, but some are very important tools - that practice teaching and mentoring is quite important, too. Also, if teaching is his career, he'll need the Masters anyway.
It is also good to get a little distance, agewise between yourself and the students, when teaching high school especially.</p>

<p>Finally, DH worked for 10 years in industry before teaching, that really added another dimension to his teaching, but that route isn't for everyone.</p>

15

<p>Thanks to all for the practical advice and good wishes!</p>

<p>Another question: if my son gets a middle school certification and Masters at his school's UTEP program, how big a deal is it, in general, to come up with the additional high school certification. His school is UChicago, so it would be an Illinois cert.</p>

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<p>My original program and teacher cert (still current, in fact) is in IL, so I can probably give you some specific information.</p>

<p>Most states give certs for grades PK-3, K-6, and 7-12. IL is a bit different - it has PK-3, K-9, and 6-12. To teach middle school, one must have a specific middle school endorsement. This is (last time I checked) 6 credit hours - a middle school methods course and an adolescent psych course. This middle school endorsement can be applied to either the IL K-9 cert (elementary) or the IL 6-12 cert (secondary). Other states do not generally have this middle school endorsement requirement - the grade span is it.</p>

<p>He needs to check with the program to see if the middle school endorsement will be applied to an elementary cert or a secondary cert. If it is a secondary cert, there is nothing else he would have to do to be certified for high school. If it is an elementary cert, that's a whole different program, and a big deal (there's very little overlap between elementary and secondary programs). Looking at the UTEP program, it is for elementary, which would mean that he would not be certified to teach high school.</p>

<p>To be certified for secondary in IL in chemistry, he will need an undergrad degree in chemistry plus an "education minor" or other state approved certification program. If he wants to stay in Chicago for his certification, there are lots of MA programs there. Given his interests in urban education, I can recommend DePaul and Loyola as excellent programs that focus on urban education. The websites for those are here:</p>

<p>DePaul: School</a> of Education
Loyola: Loyola</a> University Chicago-</p>

<p>Also be aware that IL uses its own state tests for teachers. Most other states use the PRAXIS. If he moves to a different state, he will likely have to take the PRAXIS. Not a big deal, but FYI.</p>

17

<p>I should add the following:</p>

<p>Illinois does have an interstate agreement with Ohio. Your son could apply his program experience to an Ohio certificate if he takes the PRAXIS. Information is here:
Ohio</a> Teacher Certification</p>

<p>(If you're wondering, any of the programs I mentioned would be approved programs.)</p>

<p>If he is interested in a program in Ohio, they are also plentiful. Just make certain he enters a program for secondary ed (grades 7-12 in Ohio) as opposed to elementary ed.</p>

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<p>Thanks much, DSP.</p>

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<p>DSP, what a wealth of info!!</p>

<p>I'll only add that I consider it terrible that school districts are doing this penny-wise, pound-foolish thing to hire people before they finish -- or even begin! --a Masters Degree in teaching. I taught elementary and was hired after my degree was in place. Student teaching, state credentialling, all that was a done deal before I interviewed. </p>

<p>By contrast, that first year for the younger teachers, was SO hard on them. They weren't yet tenured, had to figure out a year's worth of new lesson plans, AND ran to graduate school classes several evenings that generated more homework. I felt badly for them. Like them, I had to earn tenure (3 years under a microscope of evaluations by administrators inside and outside the building...) but I could focus on making those lessons excellent. I got a good night's sleep each night, too, so went into school quite calmly and ready for the day's surprises.</p>

<p>If he's finishing college a year early, he's given himself the perfect grace to pull in a year of teachers' college and certify before interviewing.</p>

<p>Honestly, I think there will be districts that aren't pressed against the wall financially who'll correctly see he's a better first-year teacher with the credentials all behind him. He can express that in his interview.</p>

<p>Frankly, I think the districts are leaning on new teachers too hard by setting this up as the new pathway (get your degree on "our" time). They don't even pay for the degree! </p>

<p>Remind him that he'll be able to pay back the money for the graduate degree within a few years of professional salary as a young, working teacher.</p>

<p>I think working in urban or poverty districts, as I did, should only be a reasoned choice. It is very tough work, beyond the immediate issues of chemistry, grading, and so on.</p>

<p>Best wishes to your good son.</p>

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<p>I don't have specific educational credentials to offer you but I know many young grads who have done Teach for America so let me offer you some perspective. I think it's a terrific program for kids who want to do something socially "useful" before they "sell out" (law school, investment banking, consulting; career in political campaign management, etc.) I don't know a single kid who came out of the program either wanting to teach, or in fact, prepared to teach professionally. The program offers training prior to entering the classroom but is geared to liberal arts grads who have no experience in pedagogy; sometimes the support network from principals and colleagues in the school is fantastic and sometimes it is horrendous- it's just the pick of the draw.</p>

<p>I think it might also be psychologically unnerving to be a "teacher in training" in Teach for America surrounded by similarly talented young teachers who are doing it as a stop-gap on their way to their real career.</p>

<p>My kids attended a religious HS where most of the science faculty-- almost without exception- were fantastic. These teachers were either uncredentialed new grads or veteran teachers who had started their careers in public schools. The new grads were heavily supervised and mentored by the vets so that their unfamiliarity with classroom management, testing, and hands-on teaching methods wouldn't hurt them (or the kids!) If it were my child I'd be suggesting either entering a Master's program out of undergrad, or taking a few years to teach in a private school which offered heavy mentoring by experienced, master teachers. Either way you're avoiding the burn out which comes so often to inexperienced teacher's who are thrown into a classroom too soon.</p>