<p>UCB-I’m aware that not all HBCU’s are in the deep south. The one’s D is interested in are. The talk on the AA forums about HBCU’s is very sparse and there aren’t even boards for some of the schools at all. But thanks.</p>
<p>As for Greeks-the never appealed to me one way or the other, but seeing a bunch of guys marching through my campus with sanitary napkins stuck to their heads for some kind of initiation thing turned me off big time. An my niece got pneumonia sleeping in an unheated basement for HER initiation. WTH? WHY? And I don’t buy, simply don’t buy, that they are not exclusionary. But good for the girls who stood up to the old biddies and good for the AA girls who were willing to pledge a previously all-white house.</p>
<p>Again, not all systems are like that. I never did anything remotely humiliating or embarrassing. My h and my s had to do things like wear a tie to class or run minor errands for brothers. I’m sure there was drinking - but I also know you could refuse and that was fine. Of course you could have friends outside your house - that falls under “what a stupid question to even have to ask.” Again, I am tired of the over-the-top obnoxious systems being used as the barometer.</p>
<p>"mom convinced me to rush my freshman year at Michigan. I was a geology major (at that time) in flannel shirts (a frilly flannel shirt, but still…) and corduroys… it was a disaster. Just being asked my major when I got to a house was a “lead balloon” conversation experience. No one knew any other female geology majors, that is for sure. "</p>
<p>That’s so odd that a major would make people “unable” to converse with you.</p>
<p>I read that and had to check that I hadn’t written it. Had the same flannel shirts with ruffles and majored in Geology…and everybody I knew wore cords most of the time. I wore them with my flannel shirts to my sorority meetings. I remained pretty active in my sorority even after I got married Jr year because I craved the company of other women ( there were about 3 female undergraduates in the entire department)</p>
<p>As a person who was completely inept socially in high school (either that or I was completely invisible), the idea of rushing is something that would have given me hives. I came into my own living in a dorm (arbitrarily assigned a room) in college, and I moved off-campus with friends starting junior year. </p>
<p>It just seems like a very particular group of college freshmen would be ready to subject themselves to the kind of social judgment involved in rushing.</p>
<p>If one is socially inept, one is going to have problems making friends whether it’s in a Greek context, a club, or the girls-on-the-same-dorm-floor. I think maybe this has to do with how people were taught. I was a bookworm, introverted, like my own company but I was raised by social outgoing parents who made sure I had the skills to engage in small talk, go to a party and get to know people, etc. Barring a situation such as having Asperger’s, shouldn’t our kids all have the general ability to meet and greet people regardless of their interest in a Greek system? It’s the same skill set.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, as I posted, I had absolutely no problem making friends once I hit the dorm in college. I lived 2 years in the dorms and 2 years with friends in apartments off-campus.</p>
<p>I grew where I was planted–was assigned randomly to a room and never had a problem getting along with roommates, corridor mates, etc. But I wasn’t in a position where I had to apply to be accepted sociallly.</p>
<p>Note that discomfort with being a member of a minority group in a living situation is not unique to black people. For example, few non-black students seem to have any interest in HBUs (and there seem to be forum posters who discourage non-black students from considering HBUs), even if such a school fits the student’s stated criteria well. However, white people can more easily avoid living situations where they are members of a minority group than black people can.</p>
<p>for sure, ucbalumnus! Although many white people over the years told me that they were afraid to get off the subway at stations near where I lived, for fear that they would be murdered in an instant, I never had a problem, although it took a while to get used to being one of the only white people on the street. But gentrification has caught up, and both neighborhoods I have lived in are increasingly white, to the detriment of the working-class black families that used to live here and can’t afford it anymore.</p>
<p>I think the standard “ice breaker” question at rush, at least then, was ‘What to you plan to major in?’ All I know is that the conversation went CLUNK! every single time I said it. Even when I tried to expand a bit – explain that I was interested in it because I had worked as a counselor at a high school summer field studies program in Colorado the summer before. THUD. No one I talked to at any of the houses had a thing to say/ask/etc. about it. I think it just wasn’t part of their experience, nor did anyone seem to have any interest in talking more about it. Dragonmom, wish I had met you. Although I had a perfectly fine time without going Greek, eventually ended up following some dorm friends into co-op housing and had a blast living there. Eventually dropped the geology major as well (darned Chem grades).</p>
<p>I agree. It just felt like a more-structured version of meeting new people. I didn’t feel “social judgment.” Either I hit it off with people or I didn’t – no different from if I’d gone down the hall and had dinner with the group of girls who lived at the other end. Maybe we’d hit it off, maybe we wouldn’t. This was just a way to meet a broader cross section than if I’d only had my dorm to choose from. </p>
<p>Frankly, when RAs do get-togethers for all the students in a dorm or whatever-it’s the same thing. It’s a way to ensure that people meet a broader range of people than those who live on their hall, so then people mutually decide if they want to pursue a friendship further.</p>
<p>Perhaps the different attitudes about sororities and fraternities have something to do with school-specific conditions, like how selective they are in accepting pledges, how important the sororities and fraternities are in terms of campus social life, and how important the “rankings” of sororities and fraternities are seen to be.</p>
<p>Students at schools where sororities and fraternities are an important part of campus social life, there are definite social benefits to being in a “high ranked” house, and the “high ranked” houses are very selective may feel as if rush is more of a “social judgement” versus a “more structured version of meeting new people”.</p>
Ah, but when you have dinner with a group of girls on your hall, you don’t get an official and quasi-public judgment that you either are or are not qualified to be their friend. With hall mates, you might hit it off with some and not others and proceed to friendships with the former and not the latter–the relationships build naturally and individually, not as a formal communal effort. And groups of hall mates don’t have recognized “tiers” of desireability. </p>
<p>Nothing I’ve read on this and a number of other CC threads on sororities has convinced me that their value exceeds their shortcomings. I think the oft heard claim that each new member becomes BFF’s for life with the entire sorority is nonsense–certainly nonsense if you believe that members are individuals, not clones, and that a true friend is more than just someone who lives in the same house and attends the same events. Lifelong friends are made at college all the time among those who aren’t in Greek organizations. As for the good works we are constantly told that Greeks do–there are a multitude of opportunities on any campus and its surrounding area to volunteer, fundraise, etc. without joining a sorority. Frankly, I would have been very disappointed (actually, I would have keeled over in shock) if my kids had seen value in these organizations, or had even expressed interest in a school where they had a significant presence.</p>
<p>You can say whatever you want about the pros and cons about sororities, but the fact of the matter is 25 years after graduating college, all the friends I had made in the dorms, in classrooms, etc. have gone by the wayside, and the college friends I keep in touch with and see on a regular basis are from my sorority. That structure is what they provide. If you are not interested, don’t join one. Disparaging all of them because you are not interested is of no value to anyone.</p>
<p>“I think the oft heard claim that each new member becomes BFF’s for life with the entire sorority is nonsense–certainly nonsense if you believe that members are individuals, not clones, and that a true friend is more than just someone who lives in the same house and attends the same events.”</p>
<p>Who would ever make such a silly and stupid claim? Of course you don’t become BFFs for life with every single girl. In a house of 120 or so, of course there will be those you don’t care for as much. Of course you’ll be closer to some than others. This isn’t any different from other sets of friendship circles - whether it’s a book club, a tennis league, whatever. </p>
<p>“Lifelong friends are made at college all the time among those who aren’t in Greek organizations.”</p>
<p>Who ever said or suggested otherwise?</p>
<p>And as for philanthropy - I agree. I didn’t join Greek life for the philanthropy. Who does? It’s a nice bonus extra, that’s all.</p>
<p>Your experience sure was different from mine, because I definitely felt judged. But my guess is that you “fit” what the sororities were looking for. For those that don’t (minority or unusual major or clothes that don’t fit what they expect or hair/makeup not like the rest of the sorority group or mannerisms that you don’t care for) – at least some of those categories are judged at pretty much all sororities. That is what rush is for, to give you a chance to “judge” and pick who you want to include, and who you want to exclude (I know, you don’t think of it as “excluding” – but think of it from the perspective of those who don’t get bids).</p>
<p>If you want to be less exclusionary, everyone who wants to rush should have their names put in a hat. Sororities draw and they have to invite everyone they draw to come to their house. Maybe the person rushing gets a choice of 3 houses that drew their names. If too many of the prospective sisters want one house (or want sorority life overall), then a random process is used again. A four year cycle of that would knock the “judging” side right out of the process. Those who wouldn’t want to do it that way… well then, you are “judging” whether you would want to associate with those who you wouldn’t have picked, aren’t you?</p>
<p>Goldenwest, I don’t think it is uncommon that the friends you spend the most time with your last couple of years of college become your lifelong friends. And typically that is who you choose to live with during that time, since you have a choice at that point in your college life. So of course your sorority sisters are your best friends. As my co-operative housing friends are mine. I don’t think that is a vote in favor of sororities, but merely a reality of how you were spending your time and where you lived based on joining a sorority. You would have had lifelong friends if you have made other activity and housing choices, too – most of the rest of us did.</p>
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<p>That comment is pretty disingenuous given the roadblocks put up by most sororities to block joining of girls they consider “undesirable” in some way. If joining were an open process, either open to everyone or randomized, then it would be a useful comment. As things stand at most sororities today, it is not.</p>
<p>^^^ I was in a sororoity at a school that did not have sorority houses. I lived in a co operative house with 10 girls - a couple from my sorority, a couple from other sororities and a couple that were not greek. My friends that I have kept in touch with from college are my sorority sisters (not the ones I lived with). This just goes to prove that everyone’s experience is different. I think making blanket statements like intparent and mommaj is unnecessary. Aren’t we “judged” when we interview for a job? Isn’t my daughter being “judged” when she is interviewing to be an ambassador at her school? Aren’t you “judged” when you try out for a play or a sports team? There are very few schools that if you go through rush with an open mind and go back to all the houses that your are invited (and that you yourself chose) that you will not get a bid. The problem lies with the girls that have their hearts set on a certain sorority before rush even starts. A lot of college grads have their hearts set on working at Google - very few get the job and then you keeping interviewing until you find a fit</p>
<p>The judging completely goes both ways too. There are a lot of PNMs who drop out of recruitment because there are only one or two chapters they consider worthy of them. </p>
<p>But yes, they are exclusionary, much in the same way National Honor Society is exclusionary. They are looking for young women who demonstrate similar values to their organization’s values, which are also, coincidentally, similar to NHS- scholarship, leadership, service and character. </p>
<p>When talking with my Ds friends about sorority membership, I likened it to their marching band in high school- you don’t necessarily become BFFs with every member, but because of their shared experiences and goals, when something happens to one of those members, the whole organization gets behind them to support them and lift them up. Sororities have an additional component of a shared ritual which commits them to certain values, providing an additional bond that is difficult to understand unless you’ve experienced it. </p>
<p>There is something incredibly moving when you attend something like an inter/national convention with 700 women and they confirm those values and belief systems from the ritual in unison and you understand that all the women in that room, from all different campuses, at all different ages and from many different walks of life, are committed to the same thing.</p>
Although I had a perfectly fine time without going Greek, eventually ended up following some dorm friends into co-op housing and had a blast living there. Eventually dropped the geology major as well (darned Chem grades).</p>