<p>Ah… so a girl has never been rejected by a house for being overweight, having a serious acne problem, or wearing clothes that didn’t match what the house was looking for. It is all about "values’ like scholarship, leadership, and character. B<em>**sh</em>*.</p>
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I have to admit … I never thought I’d see that comparison … I’ll have to think about it … but the first reaction is not one of seeing the analogy as ringing true to me.</p>
<p>intparent- I agree that sometimes people base their decisions on the wrong things. Just as people lose out on job opportunities for those same kinds of reasons- or because they just don’t seem to be a good “fit” with the people on the team for some reason- sometimes people are shallow and make decisions based on the wrong criteria. Just as you’ll find PNMs who won’t join the sorority known as the “fat” chapter :(</p>
<p>People are being judged for their looks and personality (soft stuff) all the time. It is not limited to sorority rush. Similar to what Pizzagirl said, my girls didn’t join sorority for scholarship, leadership, they joined the house where they liked the girls most.</p>
<p>At Alabama one sort of discrimination is clear. The media reports one of the rejected girls comes from an important family and she, herself, has impressive academic credentials. Only her race kept her out of the group. Everything else about her is “right” for the sorority in question. Now this thread is starting to talk about other ways sororities discriminate: family background, appearance, personality. Basically, sororities want other “girls like us” and are creating in-groups exactly like bclintotonk points out in post 245. I agree with VeryHappy’s posts on this thread as well. There are many positives about sorority life which would still exist if rush were replaced with random assignments.</p>
<p>Oldfort - yes, people are judged for looks and personality in many other contexts. I still think there is something different about creating a formal and semi-public mechanism for making these judgments. </p>
<p>I’m also not sure why it is necessary. Somehow, in most other non-romantic social settings, people wind up befriending the people they want to befriend without going over to the rest of the group and telling them “after careful consideration, I really don’t want to spend more time with you.”</p>
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<p>All of the above may be “deal breakers” at some chapters/some schools but not at the school I attended. I had sorority sisters who fit those descriptions, so what? I also know girls who fit your descriptions who are current sorority members at various schools. </p>
<p>Colleges are different, chapters are different. I have no doubt that there are schools/chapters which are very superficial. But others are not. </p>
<p>I don’t get the random assignment thing at all. What is the point? If it to ensure that every girl has a group or club to belong to, colleges have plenty of non greek opportunities for that.
Or the girl can simply form her informal group of friends as I described in a prior post.</p>
<p>I’m as appalled for being rejected because of not being the “right” kind of candidate as I am for not being the “right” color.</p>
<p>Rush is discriminatory. The only question is one of degree. Random assignments remove that discrimination as much as is possible. Economic discrimination will still exist since all students can’t afford sororities or fraternities.</p>
<p>emily: yes, me too.</p>
<p>St some schools potential sorority sisters might be judged by values and character, but at Alabama they seem to be judged by blondness and thinness, and the same is true at some other southern schools. Not so much national honor society as National Paleness Society.</p>
<p>Perhaps this type of thing is a preview of what can happen in the recruitment and hiring process for jobs, particularly when there are not easily evaluated or demonstrated skills relevant to the job that can be used to distinguish between applicants (think of the jobs that look for people with bachelor’s degrees, but do not care about what specific major or course work the bachelor’s degree is in).</p>
<p>Those older racist sorority alumni may be in positions to contribute to hiring decisions of new graduates from the University of Alabama and other schools should those new graduates apply to the employers that they work at.</p>
<p>I’ve got to say it: People make judgements about others everyday of our lives. Studies has shown that tall thin people make more money than their counterparts. Do I purchase this dress or the other one? Do I want my toddler to be friends with that little child or not?Do I want to hire this person? </p>
<p>And for those who say (and believe) that they don’t make judgements they are fooling themselves. Sororities aren’t the beginning of selection nor will they be the last judgement we make.</p>
<p>Greek if for social life, why would people want to be randomly assigned who they socialize with. My girls’ friends (even before they joined sorority) tend to be attractive, fit, smart, fairly down to earth, and not bit**y. So when they looked for a sorority they also looked for girls who they would like as friends.</p>
<p>Of course we all know that people are judged by their appearance all the time.</p>
<p>But do we really want to support student organizations that openly make that the major factor in selection? Really? </p>
<p>People can say whatever they want about character, grades, etc, but if you look at what kids in those systems write about each other it is mostly about looks.</p>
<p>How is school supporting Greek life? Are they giving funding like they do to other clubs?</p>
<p>Consolation, if I am recalling correctly the sources you have cited previously include TFM and GreekRank. There is absolutely no way to verify that any of those anonymous comments have, in fact, been posted by an actual fraternity or sorority member. Those sites are trash. Nothing written there should be given even an ounce of credibility. Of course if you want to rely on those sites as representative of the Greek community, check out CollegiateACB while you’re at it. It was there that I learned my daughter was in fact a slutty ■■■■■.</p>
<p>I’m pretty sure when my D went through rush, the first thing the sororities really looked at was grades. But at D’s school, rush was second semester freshman year. If you didn’t have the grades, I don’t know if they really cared what you looked like.</p>
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<p>Allowing them to exist as a student organization and to recruit/have their houses/hosting parties on campus constitutes institutional support by that college for Greek life.</p>
<p>As opposed to colleges like mine which not only bans student organizations which use social exclusivity factors in evaluating aspiring members, but also bans students from joining such organizations as a condition of matriculation/continuing enrollment because back in the 1870s, the admins and campus community felt they were antithetical to the type of community values they wanted to foster on campus/with their students.</p>
<p>“My girls’ friends (even before they joined sorority) tend to be attractive, fit, smart, fairly down to earth, and not bit**y.”</p>
<p>I would not EVER want my kids to choose friends based on being attractive! Does it happen in the real world? Sure-see above quote. That doesn’t make it right. My 13 yo’s best friend is chubby, has messy hair and can be a bit of a pain. But she has stood up for my D when shes needed a friend and D has stood up for her. D is an accomplished dancer, her friend hates to exercise. D is bubbly and cheerful all the time, her friend is reserved and serious. They compliment each other. What if my D, who is pretty darn cute if I say so, had looked at this girl and decided not to befriend her because she wasn’t just like her? Ew.</p>
<p>To keep this on topic-I’ll just second Consolation: "But do we really want to support student organizations that openly make that the major factor in selection? Really? "</p>
<p>No, <em>I</em> sure don’t! Maybe I say that because I was one of those judged as not good looking by the in crowd when I was in HS. Seems to me that we’re just extending the opportunity for “mean girls” to be all about looks and popularity with sororities that use those criteria.</p>
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<p>I’m in complete agreement with FallGirl here. I don’t think every Greek deserves to be painted with the same brush some of you want to use.</p>