I think most of them have their own house and have parties either off campus (hall) or at their house, unlike other clubs which have events at their school’s facility.</p>
<p>My girls maybe more shallow than your girl, sseamon, but they tend to like to talk about makeup, clothes, boys and many other superficial stuff with their friends. If they say, “I am thinking about changing my hair style, what do you think would look good on me?” And the friend says, “I don’t know why you would care so much about your hair.” Not much to go on after that. I tell my kids that life is too short to be with people who are a pain. Yes, their friends would absolutely stick up for them too.</p>
<p>It seems to me that the whole point of a Sorority is to find other “girls just like me.” Not to build a house with a varied and diverse set of girls. (I’m not talking racial diversity, but just “different” sorts of kids) I don’t see why anyone is surprised at the discrimination. I can be a great conversationalist, but “artsy” and shop at thrift stores, and I’m not going to get a bid. I’m sorry, but it’s true. Unless maybe it’s an “artsy” sorority.</p>
<p>I also don’t understand, what’s the rush? If it is becuse of “tent talk” maybe that is a good thing! Maybe if I learn more about the “reputation” of your house, I won’t want to join. Or maybe if you find out I sleep around, you won’t want me as a sister. Normal friendships take time, it is not a snap decision. If I joined a Sorority and then found out that the alumni had a say in chosing sisters, I might not want to join. Unfortunately I have already joined before I find out all the “secrets.”</p>
<p>If you were/are in a sorority, it is difficult for you to see that it is exclusionary, because you were chosen! You already know that you are the “right” sort of candidate, so it dosen’t seem insulting that you might not be “right.”</p>
<p>I don’t want to paint every greek with the same brush. I don’t even blame people for joining sororities - if they are a central part of a school’s social life, and/or all of your friends are joining, it may be a natural step.</p>
<p>I still don’t see the need for selective social clubs. I can choose to associate with the people I like and avoid the people I don’t without creating an organization dedicated to sorting people.</p>
<p>Allowing them to exist as student organizations does not necessarily mean institutional support for them any more than allowing student organizations involved in religion, politics, or some other interest. Of course, if it goes beyond that (e.g. campus-provided housing for them), then it can be construed as institutional support for it.</p>
<p>Of course, lack of institutional support or recognition does not necessarily mean that they will go away. Franklin and Marshall derecognized fraternities and sororities for a while (although it did not prohibit membership in them); they did not go away. Princeton highly discourages membership in them (and prohibits frosh membership), but they remain anyway as off-campus organizations (despite some of their functions being fulfilled by the campus-promoted eating clubs).</p>
<p>And if you weren’t in a sorority, it might not be possible to totally accurately make judgments about it, such as what the “whole point of it” might be. ;)</p>
<p>BTW, I wasn’t in a sorority. I had roommates all through college who were in sororities, and they didn’t seem to only look for friends who were “just like them.” Otherwise, they would have steered clear of me, and it was my impression that they liked me a whole lot. :)</p>
<p>I am willing to believe some of you were in sororities that never engaged in any inappropriate judgements during rush. It seems all the sororities at Alabama judged inappropriately. I don’t see how we change what happens at Alabama (or any of the schools with “judgmental” sororities) without changing the whole system. Women are calling their national groups about their chapters at Alabama. Women can change sororities to be less discriminatory. We just need to decide the level of discrimination with which we are comfortable.</p>
<p>As bevhills says, we can’t really avoid the judging. That’s life.</p>
<p>The judging and discrimination that goes on now does tend to concentrate power in certain groups at certain schools. Yes, let’s think about networking as an example. Great idea and big help if you manage to get in the right group. And just maybe you end up in that group because of your family. Those who begin life with advantages acquire more advantages.</p>
<p>To be clear, I took one quick look at rush in college, and decided it wasn’t for me; D1 has life-long friends from her sorority, and D2 had no interest, despite having friends in sororities who wanted her to rush.</p>
<p>I think the thing that keeps being overlooked here is that the sororities at Alabama demonstrated that they didn’t want things to remain the status quo - I think the girls that are there now, are to be commended. It was the alumnae who judged inappropriately in this case.</p>
<p>For the record, I did not belong to a sorority. No Greek life at my alma mater. </p>
<p>D’s chapter has one requirement, I think. GPA. Maybe three if you add in the requirements that the PNM must be breathing and willing to join. They have no chapter at Alabama.</p>
<p>Imho - The reason to call your national organization and object to discriminatory practices is because once you join a sorority you are a member for life. Actions at each chapter reflect on the national organization and, at least in some way, on you as an individual for belonging to the group. So alums are still members and some alums are involved for decades in advisory capacities. I don’t see how we can so easily separate actives from alums. I have utmost admiration for the actives at Alabama who were willing to speak out. I can’t really express the depth of that admiration adequately.</p>
<p>I contacted my national. They made a very strong statement that they would remove any alum who became excessively involved in new member selection or who displayed discriminatory values. I was pleased and proud. </p>
<p>Some of you are just kind of weird about the whole thing. Good grief, I had a sorority sister with a speech impediment - my H dated her before he dated me! We had some girls who were northeast Jews, some southern belles, some small-town girls - all kinds, all majors. Yes, including black and Hispanic and Asian and Indian.
We liked one another. The end. </p>
<p>Apropos of this, something funny happened today. I took a deep water running class and as we emerged, I noted that the woman next to me had a NU-themed headband so I said - oh, did you go there? Yes, she had, though she was 5 years younger so we didn’t overlap. Oh, were you in the Greek system? Yes, she was a Chi O. Oh really? I was an Xxx. Oh, she was just at the football game yesterday and sat with a bunch of XXX’s she was friendly with. We exchanged a few more pleasantries.</p>
<p>But I couldn’t help but think - gosh, how could you have POSSIBLY maintained friendships with women in a different house? I mean, according to CC it’s FORBIDDEN. These are lasting declarations of exclusive friendships!! Lol.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, UA supports Greek houses by giving them all-but-free rent and financing the mortgages on their buildings.</p>
<p>For sure it’s a great thing that the president of UA and sorority members are speaking out against racial discrimination in their membership process. But it’s 2013! The last black girl who pledged was in 2003! What happened last year? And what’s the deal with the Machine?</p>
<p>I can’t ever really figure out what the huge objection is to Greek life by people who weren’t in it. Who cares?</p>
<p>The racist stuff at UA freaked me out, but it clearly freaked out the actives too. Nuff said. The world moves on. </p>
<p>My oldest joined and deactivated second year. My youngest just joined. She’s the most egalitarian social and fair person I know. She’s happy with things where she is. Good. </p>
<p>Again, had UA not addressed this, had women of color not already been offered bids? That would be a different story, to me.</p>
<p>I care as a parent (and as a professor) because the presence of sororities and fraternities influences a campus’s culture.</p>
<p>Of course, that is true of all aspects of campus life – a graduate school influences the undergrad experience, a football team influences the campus culture – I am not saying the issue is unique to Greek institutions. </p>
<p>But what does seem unique about sororities and fraternities is the nebulous set of characteristics that qualify someone to be a member. If the point is forming friendships, why have a vote? And especially why have a vote after a condensed period of artificial interactions? Why not let people come and go, like the chess club? (I really would like to understand–I was not in a sorority and neither is my college D.)</p>
<p>sabaray, I should have made myself clearer: when I spoke of “those systems,” I was not referring to ALL Greek organizations at EVERY school. I was referring to those which are very clearly using looks as the major criteria–not the only criteria, perhaps, but the major one. </p>
<p>To whomever mentioned GreekRank and TFM, those are not the only places I’ve seen kids writing about fraternities and sororities. For example, I recall a conversation between kids I read here on CC regarding sororities at Vandy. The commentary on the sororities–by a girl–was virtually ALL about whether this year’s pledge class was composed of “cute girls.” And she wasn’t being *****y or horrible like the stereotypical anonymous bulletin board poster. It’s just one example that by itself means little. In aggregate, it begins to paint a picture.</p>
<p>To know that all sororities are not all about looks and race, all you have to do is look at the group shots available online at many schools. You will immediately see the difference.</p>
<p>Aimsie. I was never Greek, as I’ve said. The one thing, though, is that not all of this bidding happens during recruitment. If a girl becomes friends with people in a house, they will generally offer her a place. </p>
<p>That was my experience. With “the best” houses, too. I was offered spots in a couple of houses, but it wasn’t for me. I stayed friends with lots of these girls, some even today. </p>
<p>I think the SEC thing is really intense. It’s like the Ivies of Greek life. So what? Even at these schools it’s not such a huge percentage you can’t find other activities and other friends. </p>
<p>All that said, I still wouldn’t go Greek. But I don’t care when others do.</p>