<p>Dear friend has a rising senior(daughter) in a uber competitive, test in, NYC school. Her dilemma is this.</p>
<p>Her DD is incredibly bright, thoughtful, hardworking but earned herself a C+ in her calculus class this year. Even with pre-test day tutoring, she couldn't bring it up any higher. Her classmates had the luxury of having tutors ATC. Dear friend just couldn't afford the $150/hour tutor each week. </p>
<p>She has had some pretty interesting summer experiences. She studied abroad in Spain, TASS and this year she is a museum docent. </p>
<p>She will be applying to full need, no loan schools because mom is low income. Mom is filled with angst by the C+ and feels that this grade will tank her otherwise stellar transcript and leave her DD out in the cold admissions wise.</p>
<p>Will this mediocre grade keep her out of the Ivies & other HSCs that she has on her list?</p>
<p>Not everyone is a math person and colleges understand this. If a student has one C+ on a transcript that otherwise has all A’s, then I don’t think it’s a deal-killer for any of the ivies. </p>
<p>But, at uber competitive test schools in NYC, one-half of the entire class usually applies to HYP alone. I know this from experience as my kids went to Stuyvesant where 200 to 300 kids applied to Yale and in any given year 10 are accepted, So your friend’s kid will really need to write a thought provoking essay, have stellar teacher recommendations, and interesting EC’s to stand out from the crowd of otherwise gifted and talented students.</p>
<p>A C+ in calc sticks out on a transcript but one grade is not going to tank her chances. Unless she is applying to Cal Tech or MIT, if the rest of her transcript is sound, her chances are not ‘ruined.’ </p>
<p>Keep in mind that the Ivies aren’t the only full-need no-loans schools:
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<p>None of them are easy to get in to, per se, but I have to think that some of them would be more forgiving of a C+ in calculus. Especially if she is aiming for a non-STEM college/major in some universities. For instance, I doubt that Northwestern would ding their prospective theatre majors too heavily for a C+ in calculus.</p>
<p>I found out that she has 3 C+'s on her transcript. All in math, I thought she only had 1 C+. She applied for 3 fly in weekends and was rejected from them all. Clearly a bad sign. Mom feels that an upward trend in her first semester grades will help. She also hopes she will see an increase in her next ACT & SAT scores. She will be sitting for both tests early fall. Mom is feeling even worse & is reluctant to budge from the college list that’s in place. </p>
<p>What is the college list that is in place? Remind her mom that it is important for her D to have choices in the spring – sticking with a list that only has top colleges on it is a recipe for ANYONE (without the C+s) to have limited or no choices in the spring. </p>
<p>Thanks for your post. Amherst, Williams, Dartmouth( these are the schools that rejected her for the fly-in weekends).</p>
<p>Brown, Wesleyan, Cornell(she will be attending a weekend event at Cornell due to her participation in the TASS program in the summer of 2013), Trinity, possibly Vassar…she can only apply to 6 privates, which is a rule at her school. Her mom is going to have a chat with the GC to see if they will budge.</p>
<p>Honestly – she should drop a couple of reaches and add a couple more “likely” schools. Why should the school bend the rule for her? If her list is too reach-heavy given her grades and her mom doesn’t want to admit it, that is not the school’s fault… Mom needs to let go of her own ego and make sure her D has some choices in the spring.</p>
<p>She is hoping that the holistic approach of the full admissions process will give her better luck. The fly in app’s only asked for grades & essays if memory serves me correctly. My own dd went through the process last year and unfortunately, I think being so close to me/DDs college admissions process is making things worse for her. I feel awful for them. She has worked very hard to get her dd to this point…done all of the “right” things, went to one of the best schools in NYC, et al…</p>
<p>I suggested adding an HBCU to her list but her dd is against it. I think she is as well.</p>
<p>Well the good news is that she will likely get in to some great schools and get great financial aid, they just might not be top-10 schools. This is hardly a failure. Yale would be great of course, but her life will not be ruined if she goes to Trinity.</p>
<p>If the 6 limit is real, she needs to cut out 2 of Amherst, Williams, Dartmouth and Brown and choose a couple of schools more like Vassar or Trinity. How about Hamilton or Conn College? </p>
<p>What is her actual GPA? Three C+'s are definitely going to be a bigger deal than just one, if only because they’ll have a proportionately larger effect on her GPA.</p>
<p>Maybe you can have a heart-to-heart talk with the mom. Surely your own D had safety schools on her list as well? Your friend should not take the fact that your D got into Yale as a guarantee that her own D will get into a similarly competitive school – and that would be true even if she had a 4.0.</p>
<p>That whole “she’s done all the right things, gone to the right high school” line sounds perilously close to the mentality we keep seeing where kids get rejected from the schools they have their hearts set on and then say “why did I work so hard if I was just going to end up at State Flagship?” Your friend and her daughter should be regarding her high school years as a chance for her to learn and grow, not as a 4-year college application process. Otherwise it is indeed a waste, no matter what school she ends up attending.</p>
<p>A few months back, I asked if she was going to consider Hamilton. She said absolutely not, it was in NY & the daughter was against staying in NY. I know, I know, Cornell is at the top of the list. I guess because its Cornell??. I should add that they were aghast that DD decided to stay so close to home. Dear friend was NOT happy when I told her which school dd had decided on on May 1st. </p>
<p>Not sure what her exact GPA is. She has A’s, B’s and the 3 C+'s. I believe she has more B’s than A’s. She has said in several occasions that “If Sally had gone to a school like Lucy, she would have better grades too”. Sally being her dd & Lucy being mine. She has always felt that her DDs school is of much better quality & my DDs school was inferior. Or she will say “Now that Lucy is at Yale, she will see what real classes are like.” My DDs GPA was 3.97. Her transcript was A+s, peppered with 1 or 2 B+s. </p>
<p>YES!!! Absolutely, dd had 3 safeties. We both were extremely realistic throughout the whole admissions process. Never feeling like dd was above any school. She visited and fell in love with Trinity & Conn College last year. Her favorite interview was at Conn College. Her dd may add SUNY-Binghamton to the list. I can’t remember, I do know her intended major in Anthropology. </p>
<p>Her DD is against Yale but she has been trying to gently change her DDs mind. </p>
<p>It’s very early and I’m a bit bleary eyed. So if I’m rambling I apologize!! </p>
<p>It seems your friend is pushing her D a bit too hard in the Math path. I have seen similar cases although not as dramatic that getting C+ in all Math classes. Taking Calculus in Junior would mean skipped/tested out at least 1 years of basic Mathematics in middle or high school. This may actually produce an adverse effect. Relying on tutor is not really a good way to go. Your friend should have realized the problem when her D received the first C+.</p>
<p>These are all very difficult schools to gain admissions. </p>
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<p>If there are more Bs (3.0) than As (4.0), along with 3 C+ (2.66), then the GPA is below 3.5. </p>
<p>If she struggles with math, her SAT isn’t likely to be too high either. </p>
<p>This list is totally unrealistic. I would drop all of them. (Amherst, Williams, Dartmouth, Brown, Wesleyan and Cornell). </p>
<p>I sense a bit of mutual competitiveness between you two - your D went to an inner city HS and is at Yale, and her D went to a top NYC exam school, is buckling under the competition, and is not in a position to attend the most competitive colleges. It sounds as if she is starting to resent you. It’s totally understandable that you want to help her. It must be difficult for you to watch this. However, I get the feeling that you telling her that her list is totally unrealistic is akin to telling her that her baby is ugly. It’d tread lightly. I also think that after the grueling experience in HS, attending one of the most competitive colleges might not be such a great experience for her anyway. </p>
<p>It’s late in the game to start researching a whole new set of colleges. School starts Thursday. I don’t know if she has access to Naviance, but it can be used to assess the probability of admission given SAT and GPA. Given the probability of admission, and a ranking preference, one can compute the probability of actually attending a school. With a limit of only 6 privates, I think that this is a worthwhile calculation to make in order to avoid placing bets on too many longshots. </p>
<p>I’d be surprised if she was able to get the limit lifted. When I attended one of these schools, they were pretty strict about it because they were very resource constrained in processing transcripts and recommendations. </p>
<p>My suggestion would be for her to go a full-need school that may include some loans. Applying to the more moderately selective women’s colleges (Bryn Mawr, Mt Holyoke, Smith, Scripps) would be an excellent idea, IMHO. </p>
<p>Trinity is a good choice. Vassar is a reach, but not an unreasonable one. Other good full need schools that occasionally accept a smart B+ students can be found in this list</p>
<p>I feel for you because I, too, have seen students “over reach” and it is hard to tell friends that they are- especially if they have an idea of what schools they think their child should attend. It is hard to see a student do this, especially when you know that there are other options for them that could be very good. Being low income is also a consideration, and that too is another struggle that impacts a family emotionally.</p>
<p>A lower income student with stellar grades and scores is in a great position if accepted into a school that meets financial need, but the student who doesn’t get accepted or who has less than the highest credentials ( although still qualified) has to make choices with income in mind. It can be tough to have a “gap” in financial need, excessive travel costs, or other expenses that are hard to meet. Sometimes the best financial situation is a state college that has funding or programs for low income students. Sometimes, it is a community college. </p>
<p>A solution that considers both mom’s dreams and reality would be to keep some of mom’s list, but hopefully also add schools where admission and financial aid is more likely. Some of these might be schools where she is at the higher end of the applicant pool. Being an average student at a competitive school isn’t something to be ashamed about. She is likely to do very well in college since she is used to academic rigor- but it needs to be one where she is accepted and she can afford. </p>
<p>Whoa. OP, I would say do not waste one bit of energy thinking about this. The chips are going to fall where they may. The kid will end up at a school that is right for her, and your “dear friend” parent really needs to get a grip. Can we say “living vicariously?” Poor kid.</p>
<p>@redpoodles, yes…for the girls sake, I hope she finds a wonderful school without too much debt. She is an incredible young women. I fear she will buckle under the pressure. </p>
<p>@Pennylane2011 </p>
<p>Mom won’t consider a CC. I don’t dare bring it up to her. She might think I’m “low balling” her dd. There aren’t many state colleges she will consider either. She has mentioned Geneseo in the past.</p>
<p>@ClassicRockerDad,</p>
<p>I never saw her dd as competition. They are in different grades, different states + completely different school settings. Even their ECs are different.</p>
<p>I always saw us as in this crazy process together. Two low income, inner city mom’s who had each other to vent to/support…I only want the best for her dd & for her to be happy. Especially after such a grueling, back breaking hs experience.</p>
<p>I always passed along the info that I found on CC to her. What’s so funny is that I told her about both Oxbrbridge & TASS programs. Her daughter took part in both. She gave me a repeated tongue lashing for not having my dd apply/attend. My dd had no interest in either and I didn’t push it.</p>