<p>One of the issues with the Ivy label is the effect it may have on students (and probably more on the parents). If you look at this mathematically, 1.5 million students took the SAT in 2006. The top 1% of these students make up the entire incoming class for all the 8 Ivies. Which means that some very good and accomplished students simply will not get into these schools. In fact, to admit the top 5% (about 75,000 students) you need about 20 National Research Unis (including the 8 Ivies) and about 20-25 LACs. Throw in geographic locations, costs and desired majors and the list grows.</p>
<p>The same old schools are discussed on this board over and over again. It's my contention that the true value for college seekers is not to discuss the "Ivy like" but the total list of good colleges to consider. The Ivies are the Ivies. It's a nice easy way to classify schools. IMO what should be discussed are the top non-Ivies (and to stop thinking of them as second rate). If you want to call these second tier so be it, but, as shown above they will be filled with top students and this, in the end, makes up a great part of getting a great education.</p>
<p>Top student in S's HS class (amazing all-around student, ranked nationally in individual sport) could have gone anywhere, but was only interested in Duke.</p>
<p>The top student in my D's senior class was amazing. He was only interested in Duke as well, which, incidently, was within a 4 hour drive of his home. That's where he went.</p>
<p>Duke is fantastic. I love the campus but D#1 wouldn't even consider it. I suppose she fell much into the IVY trap. Other than state schools as safeties, only consideration was Ivy league. If we knew then what we know now. Why it's so important to look way off the radar at all schools for D#2. Thank you, everyone, for all the great input and discussion.</p>
<p>When my son started his college search, his GC gave him a list of hundreds of colleges grouped into most highly selective, higly selective, selective, etc. I though that was a much more sensible tool than the USN or other rankings. IMO, the rankings give a false impression that one school in the top 50, say, is <em>better</em> than another. <em>Better</em> is so subjective and relative from one student to the next.</p>
<p>As to whether Maryland is in the south or north, it seems to me it is neither and both. I grew up in southern Virginia - we didn't consider Northern Virginia as really being in Virginia. Since then, I have lived in Richmond and Maryland and Maryland has a very southern feel to me, but my niece in Richmond insists I am a yankee. Goucher would be a great choice, especially if love of animals includes love of horses. I don't know the source now, but I have read that it ranks extremely well in student satisfaction.</p>
<p>"student unions, campus police, parking, the registrars office and many other things are scaled up"</p>
<p>All those things would have to be scaled up if they were shared, but many of them aren't. Just to use the example of the law school, which is contiguous with the undergrad campus, it has its own student union, its own registrar, etc., that are both geographically and administratively separate from FAS.</p>
<p>Parking is pretty much nonexistent at all of the colleges in Cambridge and Boston (as it is for all the schools in Manhattan), and it's a non-issue for the vast majority of undergrads in both locations. It's a pedestrian and subway world.</p>
<p>Maryland is not "Southern." As a Southerner, I can tell you that what is "Southern" is defined by most Southerners as which States seceded from the Union during the Civil War. Maryland did not. Don't get me wrong: The right side won the War. America needed to remain united, and the travesty of slavery needed to end. But, the point is that Maryland remained in the Union, and is therefore not "Southern."</p>
<p>I was raised in Virginia and have lived most of my life in Texas. I think, if anything, there is a southern bias on this board. There are only a scattered few top tier schools in the South, and places like Duke and Rice are very fine schools but would not stand out nearly as much in the Northeast as they do in a South largely bereft of academic competition. As the country's demographics have shifted, those two schools, and the three fine public universities in the South, have been raised in national esteem. Still, the preponderance of top universities, and the only concentration of top liberal arts colleges, are in the Northeast.</p>
<p>Concur that Maryland is not in the South. Disagree that those who left the United States of America did so as the result of the issue of slavery. Not the forum for this, but that would be a gross misreading of history. Lincoln did not "free" the slaves in America, but sought belatedly to impose on a then foreign nation that edict. Slavery remained in many northern states, including Maryland, until after the Civil War.</p>
<p>No, Maryland is not in the South when you define it using the Confederate map, but I wasn't under the impression that the OP was limiting the search to states that seceded from the union. "Southern", to me, is not always defined that way, and - IMO - Maryland is, in many ways, a lot more "southern" than Florida. Kentucky didn't secede, but I'd include it in a search for colleges in the south.</p>
<p>Folks, isn't Maryland situated below Mason's and Dixon's Line? And by the way, Texan and President LBJ didn't necessarily consider himself a southerner. He thought of himself and Texans as westerners.</p>
<p>Depends on what part of Texas. Rural East Texans, with their VERY Southern sounding East Texas accents would undoubtedly consider themselves Southern. There you'll actually see people riding around in pickup trucks with the Confederate flag hung in the window, just like Alabama, Mississippi or any other Southern state. </p>
<p>West Texas and Panhandle...pickups yes, Confederate flags no. These are ranchers and oil patch folks. They would consider themselves Westerners. </p>
<p>Coastal Bend...farm country....people probably identify more with Midwesterners.</p>
<p>South Texas (including Corpus and SATX)...my neck of the woods. People have nothing in common with the South and probably would consider being called a Southerner offensive. There is more German, Czech and Hispanic pride than Southern pride.</p>
<p>In the cities (Houston especially), the population is so multi-cultural with people hailing from all over the world, especially Latin America and Asia. Definitely little identification with the South, or the West...or even Texas. These folks consider themselves Houstonians.</p>
<p>Just a little off topic primer on Texas...it's a big state. ;)</p>
<p>From a 80's sitcom situated in Atlanta (who remembers it? :) ) :</p>
<p>"Yes, you can give him a message. You do take shorthand, don't you? Good, we take it in the South too. Anyway, just tell him that I have been a Southerner all my life, and I can vouch for the fact the we do eat a lot of things down here... and we've certainly all had our share of grits and biscuits and gravy, and I myself have probably eaten enough fried chicken to feed a third world country - not to mention barbecue, cornbread, watermelon, fried pies, okra, and... yes... if I were being perfectly candid, I would have to admit we have also eaten our share of crow, and for all I know - during the darkest, leanest years of the Civil War, some of us may have had a Yankee or two for breakfast. But... speaking for myself and hundreds of thousands of my Southern ancestors who have evolved through many decades of poverty, strife, and turmoil, I would like for Mr. Weaks to know that we have surely eaten many things in the past, and we will surely eat many things in the future, but - God as my witness - we have never, I repeat, never eaten dirt!"</p>
<p>I think we might rename this thread "Truth in Labeling." The term "Ivies" has been challenged (in particular by yours truly) and so has the term "Southern." What is left of the title?</p>
<p>It might be far more helpful if the OP were to describe more specifically what kind of school her child is looking for in terms of size, general location (besides "Southern") feel (frats or no frats? preppy or not, and so on) sports scene, strengths in particular major, etc...</p>
<p>Only sitcom in Atlanta I can remember...Designing Women?</p>
<p>As for sweet tea....maybe that's a clue what's south. You CAN get unsweet tea in Virginia....but at some point driving south, all tea is presweetened! Just like your choice of toast is limited maybe the South Carolina line! Way off targent now, but even this southerner from Virginia, doesn't care for sweetner in my tea and want wheat toast! (smiles)</p>