<p>Daughter has very high standardized test scores, but schoolwork is a mess. Spent 7-9th grade yelling, threatening, nagging at her. Finally realized it wasn't really a choice on her part. Went to office supply store and bought every type of folder/organizer imaginable. Enforced nightly checks to verify homework/handouts were in the correct binders. Miraculous improvement; C's to B's within a quarter. All A's and B's Junior year. Does anyone else have suggestions to help impose order on the chaos? Does the volume of busywork decrease in college, or will the challenges persist?</p>
<p>first off, kudos to you for being understanding and helpful, and in ways so specific to your DD - so much of what ADD kids need isnt meds and therp (though they can help many) and certainly not being yelled it (or paradoxically, rewarded - at least for some) but simple things to help with org, with space, etc.</p>
<p>Personally I dont know - my DD has usually been good about about stuff like physical org and has used it to compensate (Still turned stuff in late though)</p>
<p>Find out what type of planner works best for her, whether it be paper or electronic. She may need to try a few to see what works best. For her. Not anyone else. When my D was going through the “hit the fan” phase and was being diagnosed (ADHD inattentive and NVLD) she had both parents, the school gifted consultant and a LD tutor all giving her suggestions & I remember a moment when she just said “stop! I have to figure out what works for me!” Once she did, she was fastidious about her use of her planning system.</p>
<p>The “busywork” does drop in college, but the personal accountability becomes more important. Less assignments means that if one is forgotten, it holds a bigger consequence. And the student/professor dynamic generally doesn’t have an intermediary, so the student has to have good self advocacy skills. Good news is that most profs give a syllabus at the beginning of the semester, so armed with a good planning system, she should be able to see what’s assigned for the entire semester at the beginning of the term and enter it all in then.</p>
<p>I think the biggest thing for me is just being able to come up with new strategies when something doesn’t work or when something that previously worked doesn’t anymore. The biggest obstacle for me in overcoming my ADD was that, for example, my mom might buy me a written planner and expect me to use it-- if that wasn’t working out it was constant war and constant belittling of my maturity level, because if I would just grow up already and use the planner everything would be fine. When the productive response would have been, “okay, written planner is obviously not going to work, let’s try something else.” I am somebody that every few months, I need to try new systems and find a new thing that works for me, because things will just stop working and no matter how hard I try I cannot force them. That was mainly what my executive functioning coach did for me in college-- she had a seemingly limitless capacity for coming up with new organizational strategies, and I could email her each night to let her know what got done and what didn’t. If something didn’ get done she didnt scold me or anything but knowing that I would have to check in kept me on track and it kept her aware of when she might have to intervene with a new strategy.</p>
<p>In college I kept a folder on my computer for each class, where I would store all of my notes, syllabi, and anything else electronic I needed. I also kept a three ring binder for each class where I kept all my reading assignments and returned papers. I had one notebook and one folder which came with me to each class, things from that would be dispersed to their proper binder at the end of the day. I used mozilla sunbird as a scheduler and I kept a whiteboard with assignments on it on my wall. Every week I wrote out a weekly to do list on notebook paper and pinned it next to the computer. That seemingly convoluted system was the only thing that worked. At any given point, everything I had to do was written in multiple different place-- my reading schedule, my assignment schedule, my monthly schedule on the whiteboard, my mozilla sunbird, and my weekly calendar. For most people with ADD I think it would be a nightmare to keep up with all of that, but for whatever reason that is the ONLY WAY my brain would function this past year.</p>
<p>Now as a graduate, I am managing most of my daily living sort of responsibilities just by keeping a big notebook with all my to do lists in it. I also have a whiteboard with a monthly calendar on it and another white board next to my computer for immediate concerns. All of these things live in my room within view of my desk. That is along the same lines as what I did in high school-- all my papers in one notebook, etc, and it worked really well for me then, too. But for college I had WAY too much to keep track of. 100-200 pages of reading per day per class, nightly discussion posts and reading response papers, short papers, long papers, exams-- it was a lot more to keep track of than in high school, busywork and all.</p>
<p>I think helping a kid get into the habit of scanning their life once a day can help. Thinking about what might be on the horizon in their various roles: as a student, as a friend, as a daughter, as worker. Kids with exec func difficulties do not do this automatically, but can learn to do it and make it a habit. Your D may choose other categories that are more meaningful to her: as a chemistry student, as a soccer player, etc.</p>
<p>These replies are all very helpful. I am hoping the shift to digital access for course assignments etc. will solve half of the equation; getting details of the assignments and due dates. </p>
<p>The paradigm shift that was critical for us was realizing that we are not looking for a cure, we are looking for strategies that work. We wasted way too much time seeking professional mental health guidance. They focussed on the anxiety and frustration that resulted from the organizational lapses. I would be anxious too if I was constantly asked to turn things in that I couldn’t find or worried what my psycho mom would say when she looked at the online grade book. Emaheevul, I really appreciate your perspective as someone who is dealing with this. I hope my D can take charge of the situation as successfully as you have done.</p>
<p>Not sure if this is helpful or not but I have a similar child. </p>
<p>One thing that has helped tremendously is that with my guidance, she built up a set of thinking strategies to come up with new solutions when problems emerge, as well as a repetoire of ‘solutions’ to the ADD fall out. Example thinking strategies might include questions such as: what are the real versus imagined constraints (e.g. do you <em>really</em> need it and when? what exactly is due tomorrow?), can you substitute or think of creative alternatives (e.g. what else do you have that you can use? where else can you find it?), who might be able to help (e.g. would any of your friends know? can you email the teacher?), and so on. Examples of “off the shelf” solutions useful for a range of ADD problems include: calling a friend, get a scan sent, put question to facebook network, email it tomorrow, borrow one from the lost and found, do the part you can now and go into school early to finish the rest, google it, and so on. She never asked for nor would have gotten deadline extensions, so he had to deal with the consequences of her making. But she has created an excellent fall back system that helps things from unravelling further. It helped once to list them all out and keep that list, and now it’s internalized. </p>
<p>All of this helped in various ways:
- It often reduced or took away the problem emerging from her ADD (things like impacted grades, embarassment etc.).
- It avoided ‘meltdowns’ and from making one problem into a bigger problem (especially as more stress would increase the ADD).
- It gave her confidence that she can handle ‘crises’ (what was learned from coping with a lost gym shoe in grade 6, was a confident girl coping with being stranded alone in an airport in a strange city at 15).
- She learned more generally to come up with very creative solutions to solve unexpected problems (forgotten homework, didn’t know about the deadline, forgot to bring something to school, lost your X). She had sooo much experience with this!</p>
<p>I like to think now it’s even a positive aspect of her ADD because she is so trained at doing things on the fly, finding creative solutions to random glitches and unpredicted events, not getting rattled when things don’t go as planned, and enlisting support from helpful others when she needs it. It is useful for all of us to have these abilities.</p>
<p>I greatly appreciate this thread!!! My S has Tourettes and is going in tomorrow morning for neuropsych testing for executive functioning disorder and ADD. He has taken to writing himself messages on his mirror with white board markers, but obviously still needs additional guidance and will need more when he goes off to college.</p>
<p>I am reading intently all responses. Thank you all.</p>
<p>D2 (hs soph) has a non-verbal learning disorder that results in a lot of difficulty with executive functions (she has been called the “Pigpen of paper” in the past…). Although it is not ADD, seems like it has some of the same issues you are seeing with your D. A couple things that have worked for us:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Planners, and even calendars on her laptop like iCal have not worked very well. She loses the planner, forgets to check the online calendar. Lately she has been putting electronic “stickies” (like post-its) on her Mac desktop with reminders in different colors. Worked pretty well for her. Her folders are still kind of a mess, but this year she got almost every assignment in on time (slight falloff this last week of school, but it was so much better than last year).</p></li>
<li><p>We are looking hard at colleges with trimester programs so she will only have to juggle 3 classes at a time. No decision yet, obviously, but it is definitely a factor in our search.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>^That should have been a huge factor in my search, trimesters or something similar. I had to take five classes at a time and should never have taken more than two or three, it took a herculean effort to get me through school because of that issue alone. If I could do it over again I’d go to that school that only does one course at a time. Once I get focused on one subject it is nearly impossible for me to change tasks to the next subject without losing focus, much less do that for five classes at once. If I could just hyperfocus for one class for a short period of time I’d do great.</p>
<p>That never occurred to me. I will DEFINITELY consider quarters over semesters for my S. Thanks for the pointer.</p>
<p>What about Colorado College and Cornell COLLEGE (not Univ.)? Those LACs have students take ONE(1) course at a time.</p>
<p>The main thing seems to be accomplished already in your case. Buy-in from the student that “wing it” won’t work, no matter how bright you are. </p>
<p>My D seems to do best with one condensed/intense summer session courses. As she gets back on track for college, she’s including a lot of summer work. It sounds like trimester is helpful to students to. Colorado College and Cornell College (not Univ) take one course at a time… pro/cons to that but worth investigating. </p>
<p>“I am hoping the shift to digital access for course assignments etc. will solve half of the equation; getting details of the assignments and due dates.” - Probably true. Many high schools are phasing in digital access too… so try to practice with it as it becomes available. If not of course it is KEY to keep the syllabus always available. Making a “safe” copy for backup at the beginning of the semester can be good too.</p>
<p>She will be taking her first online class next year, out of necessity due to scheduling issues. It will be interesting to see if the advantage of having everything in writing will outweigh the tedium of computer learning. </p>
<p>I still cringe recalling that our philosophy in 8th grade was, “let her fail to learn a lesson, and next time she will work harder”. Allowing her to fail was disastrous, and created a negative dynamic and low self-esteem that lasted for years. We should have hired a tutor instead of a therapist, and joined the gym instead of taking away the iPod. I also hold some resentment toward all the professionals that assured us her behavior was “normal for teens” instead of providing us with constructive suggestions. Thank goodness we found a great tutor (and joined the gym) after her Freshman year.</p>
<p>Searching for colleges with quarters and trimesters is a fantastic idea. She has said more than once that she can’t wait to get a job so she can focus on just one thing. Colorado College sounds very intriguing, time for more research!</p>
<p>Evergreen State College also has trimesters and one course at a time. DS is a student there and loves it.</p>
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<p>Sounds like such a good idea. Is such a <em>bad</em> idea for our kids with ADD, NVLD or Aspergers with executive function issues. ( I’m convinced NVLD, Aspergers and ADD are the same thing at different levels of severity. But that’s beside the point.)</p>
<p>educ8me: I look back to 7th & 8th grade and cringe about some of the things I said to D1 in frustration. I just couldn’t understand how such a bright kid, who loved school would do the assignments and leave them stuffed in her back pack. I remember the psych saying to us “if you understood how hard she is working to keep her head above water, it would make you cry.” I apologized to her when we finally had an answer about what was going on; not proud of what came out of my mouth on one or two occasions, but my kid decided to keep me ;)</p>
<p>CardinalFang: During my fact finding missions 5+ years ago, I remember reading that a brain scan of someone with NVLD looks similar to a traumatic right brain injury due to the large amount of white matter “spaghetti” while Asperger’s doesn’t have the same scan profile. I can’t wait until scientists can really explain the differences between all these related brain differences. Sure seems like they’re on the same sliding scale, doesn’t it? Add in co-morbidities and it gets really confusing!</p>
<p>What is NVLD?</p>
<p>non verbal learning disability; also can be abbreviated as NLD.</p>
<p>My son was initially diagnosed with ADD, then NVLD, then (finally, when he was 19) got the Aspergers diagnosis. We don’t understand any of these conditions, their causes or their brain manifestations very well, though we do know that they tend to occur together in families-- that is, ADD parents are more likely to have Aspie kids than non-ADD parents. Engineers are more likely to have Aspie kids, too, fwiw.</p>
<p>I look forward to a more full understanding of all these conditions ten and twenty years from now.</p>