Hi. I posted something similar in another thread…not sure where to post. My son is a junior and looking to visit some schools. His academic record and rigor put him near the top of his class. He is at a 4.0/4.4 weighted. He scored perfect on his Math level 2 test and appears to be on track for a high ACT score from practice tests (assume 35 for now). Now, we are very realistic that there are TONS of highly academic kids applying to college. He has played 2 sports in high school and a club sport for years in one of those sports. A huge commitment - year round sport. BUT, he will not be recruited or want to go to college for this. He does clubs at school, holds a position in one and does volunteering. But honestly, between his rigourous schedule and sports and volunteering, there is no time for other things. We have spoken to a few outside couselors and friends who say that getting into Ivy or Ivy like schools will be hard because nothing stands out? I kind of get it, but on the other hand, is a commitment to 2 sports all 4 years in high school not good enough? And one of the sports is year round. It shows commitment and passion. It just isn’t playing on high school team for fun. It is work - year round. He does not have individual awards or recognition on this club team because it is a TEAM. He is looking at 2 Ivys, UVA, Michigan, CMU, Duke, JHU, SMU (probably not as hard to get in) and a few more. I understand they are REACHES, but is there hope? Thank you for any advice or thoughts.
Are you asking if they are enough of an EC? Probably, but hard to know exactly what an admissions committee is looking for. Are the sports as good as having been class president? MUN winner? An Eagle Scout. There is no way to know, but they are good EC’s.
While there is always hope, there are just too many kids with his credentials competing for too few seats. Be sure he also applies to schools where his numbers are in the middle of those in the last entering freshman class (Common Data Set).
@vonlost Thank you, but I am confused. Wouldn’t I want to make sure that his numbers are HIGHER than the last entering class? I know they usually give numbers for the 25% and 75% of test scores. I would think he would want to exceed the 75% not just be in the middle? I am assuming with a 35 or 36 ACT and an 800 on Math level 2 and then other high SAT level 2s he has exceeded most of the schools I listed (from the ones I looked at). But it just isn’t scores and GPA…it is other ECs etc as well. Maybe I misunderstood your comment. If you are saying that he should apply to safety schools, then yes, I agree.
@twoinanddone thank you. Yes, that is what I was basically asking. It is just hard because with team sports there is not as much individual recognition. Yes, I know their are team captains and MVPs. I have even heard that Class Presidents are not looked at that much, as it has become a popularity contest on winning many of those positions at high school. Now, Eagle Scout! That is amazing!!!
A commitment for 2 sports where 1 is year round is fine, IMO. That said, these colleges reject plenty of 4.0/1600/36 non-recruited athletes every year, while accepting applicants with lower stats. There is no magic formula. So he just needs to put together the best package he can. Good luck.
@skieurope thank you. He is doing what he loves, and in the end, that makes him happy. I think he knows (we know) that many Ivy type colleges/Ivies look for the “it” factor and not sure he has the “it” factor other than being able to love his sport, stay committed and play it year round, hold up great grades/test scores, and still do a bit of other school clubs/volunteer work. He isnt’ the star player getting recruited, or 1st place math competition winner, or debate club champion…
I heard an AD of a top LAC explain that what stood out was being nationally or internationally ranked. If you figure that every school has 10 boys sports, there are a LOT of captains and mvps out there. In this process, exceptional kids are a dime a dozen.
You son is clearly smart and athletic and engaged and that will not change whether he is at Duke or anywhere else. I suspect he’ll do fine in the admissions process, but I would make sure there are a few less selective schools on the list to save your sanity.
And imo, a great essay could be very important for a kid who “has everything in the usual way”. What he has achieved will be apparent, I think, but whether it makes him a “gotta have” is another thing.
@LvMyKids2 Your kid has chosen sports as ECs, and you seem worried that sports may not get as much respect as some other ECs that your kid might have chosen instead. For the record, I think sports are a great EC, especially a long term commitment to a year round sport. I think colleges will recognize and appreciate that kind of dedication.
But since you are sensitive to some ECs not getting as much respect as others, I am surprised you would dismiss someone else’s EC by reducing it to “a popularity contest.” My kid has been Class President for two years and this year he is Student Body President. He is generally well liked by his peers, but he is not Mr. Popular by any stretch. He is, however, willing to put significant time and energy into planning class wide and school wide events, rallying other kids to support school activities, overseeing and supporting numerous student council committees, speaking at student assemblies, being a liaison to faculty and alumni groups, and on and on. He is at school constantly for something or other related to that position. It is a lot of work, and anyone who views it as just a popularity contest is being unfair to kids who kids who serve in that role. Just as anyone who discounts the kind of dedication your kid has shown to sports is being unfair to athletes just like him.
@LvMyKids2, if his numbers are above the 75th percentile it’s more like a safety; if in the middle it’s more like a match. I was thinking of match schools (no one should plan on attending a reach), but he should actually apply to both match and safety, of course. It’s a starting point; there are schools where stats comprise as little as 20% of admission criteria (courses taken, recommendations, essays, ECs make up the rest, “holistically”), but stats must be high enough to predict academic success.
A lot of kids applying to Ivies will have 4 years in sports, clubs/hs activities, some sort of competition, outside experiences, comm service, etc. (I didn’t say awards or gloss or any old titles. It’s about a string of decisions that add up.)
I’m betting OP is minimizing the rest, thinking they have to be some really big deal. Eg, the volunteering - what is it, how often over how long? And it’s responsible or just random? What’s he been doing related to his possible major? What are those clubs? Meaningful? Etc.
This is much like creating a resume. Find the other patterns besides sports, take a look at the attributes the college wants, make the connections.
You don’t need natl or intl standing. You do need to be the sort of activated, open kid, willing to branch out, able to do for others, and more. That should show, the record. Frankly, he has time to fine tune, fill in some gaps.
@gclsports I was not dismissinig someone else’s EC at all. I am sorry if you took it that way. I was just saying that I know some don’t look at sports like a wow, unless a recruited athlete. I have read - yes really - that some admissions don’t weight president that high either. In many schools, again, not all, it is merely a popularity contest. Yes, I am generalizing, but that is what I read. Your son sounds like he has done alot and is a true leader and I am sure that will come through with his descriptions and essays. Again, these are general comments about how sports are viewed by some (some say no big deal and others say great commitment and passion) and how class presidents are viewed (again, some do great things with it and for others it is a popularity contest and a title). .
@vonlost OK thank you for your explanation, but what I was saying is that on just numbers alone - ACT and SAT level 2 and GPA - he will be a “safety” for most selective schools. His numbers are higher than most 25%-75% ranges. BUT, we all know that the selective schools are NOT safety schools based on the GPA/ACT/SAT alone. that is the hard part…he has to have the “it” factor or “stand out” in another way…
@gardenstategal: (DivIII) LACs aren’t getting nationally/internationally ranked athletes in any sport (that has DivI schools offering scholarships).
In any case, sports can be terrific at developing life skills, which may be more important than getting in to a tippy-top.
And are you sure he wouldn’t be good enough for the DivIII level?
He may be of interest to some DivIII schools (on your list, CMU and JHU are).
No " most selective" college is anyone’s safety. If you meant “a large number of selective colleges,” that’s different.
Really, CC misinterprets “standing out.” They want kids who fit. Not odd. The risk is in being unilateral. Even a top award winner, Olympic athlete, those kids who claim they made tens of thousands in some venture…needs to fit. And that’s from the college’s perspective.
@vonlost, the critical asterisk to that definition of reach/match/safety is that no school with an admission rate under 30% can be considered a safety, no matter how high the applicant’s test scores are.
@hs2015mom that is exactly my point. The definition that was given by @vonlost is OK, EXCEPT where the admission rate is under 30%. That makes what I was trying to say clearer! Thank you. I get that my son has high test scores/GPA and yes, if you JUST LOOK AT THAT, it would appear he would be a “safety” to many selective schools. BUT that is not the only criteria and that is where the hooks, amazing ECs and students who “stand out”, etc comes into play. We really have to look at schools that accept over 30% to start to “be safe” On the good side, he doesn’t really have a dream school that is a reach…he is open to many reach/target schools and here’s hoping that he gets into one! thank you for all of your feedback and insights.
@lookingforward i think the above comment by @hs2015mom is what I was trying to point out to @vonlost. I appreciate looking at the Common Data Set and trying to look at where my son might fall with data points on GPA/ACT/SAT (and in his case above 75%) BUT, and I say BUT this does not tell the story if a school is a safety or not. I like what @hs2015mom was saying…maybe an acceptance rate over 30% and hitting the numbers.
My point was that the AD said for any EC to become a hook to the committee, they were looking for international or national achievement. This is not limited to athletics or sports the schools have. It includes music and math competitions. It’s the kid who is featured in the alumni mag.
Of course, a coach could be interested in recruiting a player with more humble achievements , but then the hook is that they are a recruit.
My point was that the OP shouldn’t be fretting about which ECS are better because pretty much all the applicants will have a strong slate and few will have ones that make them leap to the top of the pile. ECs help show who you are.
What’s important is painting the picture of who this kid is as a person.
My recommendation would be that he really use his essays as an opportunity to shine as who he is. I think a lot of kids underestimate just how much their essays can complete the picture of what they can bring to the university through their personal strengths.
What are the combination of interpersonal skills and character building experiences he has had through his activities? How do they relate to who he is today?
I would have him read JHU’s essays that worked.
He can’t change who he is or what path he has taken up to today. But, he can present who he is as his strength.