Sports

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We just question how sports influences the academic achievement of our kids overall.

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<p>I think this is a valid question and I don't think anyone here would have had a problem with it if you had made in sincerity. There certainly are enough of us here qualified to answer it from our familys' experiences.</p>

<p>The problem is that you didn't just ask that question, and you obviously didn't really want an answer different from your own ingrained opinion. Instead you wrote judgmental things about student athletes - such as, sports is an impossible passion, which doesn't help students or society much, some kids need sports for validation (yours don't), athletes are warlike, tribal, etc. So duh, we're going to get offended and defensive.</p>

<p>(collegalum - sorry but I don't understand your point in #119)</p>

<p>Mammall's original post was not a personal attack on any individual person or any particular family. Most of the subsequent posts offered thoughtful, intelligent commentary about the positive role of athletics in their children's lives. I found those comments useful and enlightening.</p>

<p>However, several of you responded with spiteful, insulting, demeaning personal attacks on the OP and her children. Just in case the offenders are sitting there with smug smiles on their faces thinking they put the OP in her place, let me disappoint you by saying that posts of that sort say a lot about the posters. And I don't think you would be smiling if you realized what it says.</p>

<p>mammall, my kids sometimes choose to spend a weekend night with the boring parents, watching movies or going out to a concert or theater production. They even choose to spend some weekend afternoons hiking or biking with the old folks. They aren't social duds or losers. You have good reason to be pleased and proud that your children like to spend time with you.</p>

<p>hop scout, here is the sort of story that led to Title IX, and it has nothing to do with female failings in the fund raising realm: when I was in junior high, many years ago, I led a contingent of girls who personally appealed to the school principal to allow us to form a girl's track team. We were literally laughed out of his office and shown the door. Eight years later, my youngest sister was allowed to join the boy's track team, but the harassment was too much and she quit.</p>

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And I don't think you would be smiling if you realized what it says.

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<p>Well, since you have obviously appointed yourself as the ultimate judge of righteousness for this thread, why don't you enlighten us all?</p>

<p>Midmo, I still have my first Junior High tennis champion trophy. It was 1973 and my partner and I tried out for and got a spot on the only tennis team our school had. We challenged our way to playing first doubles, and won the district tournament. The rest of our team was male, and all of our matches were against boys. We were a spectacle and we kind of enjoyed it. </p>

<p>School sports is one of the first arenas where equality for the sexes is legislated and enforced. My daughters see the world as a place full of opportunity for those willing to strive, and, at last, the figure on the top of their trophy isn't a guy, like mine was.</p>

<p>Wow, this dialogue seems to have a life of its own. I asked the question initially not to put anyone down. If my tone disparaged then I am sorry. I think I may have been shrill because the community I live in is so extraordinarily sports obsessed that questioning the sports obsession tends to get one practically lynched. Compounding that, I'm in the midst of finding living arrangements for both sets of grandparents who suddenly can't be independent anymore. Also a senior applying to colleges and for scholarshps. Talk about sandwiching! At any rate, I am not insecure in my kids or self. Believe me, our accomplishments are such that I don't need to denigrate others to feel okay with myself. I just honestly question the sports mania given what we're facing as a society. I know personally far too many kids short-changine their intellectual abilities in favor of pursuing the elusive "free ride" through sports. The folks here on cc apparently have incredibly talented kids who excel at both sports and academics. They are not representative of the society as a whole, imho. And btw, I'll be watching D2 play basketball tomorrow. She's not bad.</p>

<p>You have to realize, mammall, that since the society is so sports-crazed, they have to cut down anyone who disagrees. Just look at the thread in the High School Life forum. I actually happen to agree with you (except for the football part...the kids really enjoy the program and I enjoy going to the games).</p>

<p>Bay, let me try to explain post #119 in another way.</p>

<p>My central point is that elite schools recruit differently for academics than they do for sports. Also, I think that the general public would have a big problem if they tried to assemble a football team at an elite football school (e.g., USC) in the same way elite schools recruit for a certain major at an elite college (e.g., Harvard.) The general strategy seems to be to get a few academic stars in each major, and then to recruit other "second-stringers" who do other stuff and are just very good students. The exception is mathematics, and I feel this is because the quality of the undergraduate population in mathematics is highly visible to the outside world due to the Putnam exam. </p>

<p>The last point brings up another issue. I think one reason some people have an issue with elite college admissions is that the image of the HYP student is different (i.e., less academic) than the reality. This is partly because admission to elite colleges is viewed as an academic distinction in itself. That's why there are so many surprises as to who gets in and who doesn't. For the academic star, it's easier to get tenure at the school than it is to get in.</p>

<p>I should add that the ivy leagues have raised academic standards for athletes in the past decade and I applaud them for doing this. I still feel they could raise the standards for athletes further. Also, I feel they could raise the academic standards for the other EC's they recruit for.</p>

<p>mammall- How long are the "occasional marathons" you run? I would appreciate an answer.</p>

<p>Just plain weird, MOWC - why on earth would you need to know that? So you can track down my times??? See if I have the credentials to converse with the hardcore sports people on here. Sheesh.</p>

<p>I can't track down times based on a simple question of how long the "marathons" are. If you have run them, tell me!</p>

<p>Marathons are about 26.2 miles.</p>

<p>I doubt mommall has run "the occasional marathon". Yes, ALL marathons are 26.2 miles.</p>

<p>This thread was begun with a post that was insulting and flat out ignorant. If someone is going to make such a post, they have to expect responses that point that out. It's an internet forum- you can't get away with the "oh, I didn't mean to offend anyone" stuff when making such ridiculous posts.</p>

<p>Let's keep things civil here.</p>

<p>^Ha ha who are you, the forum police? Speaking of civil, here's what sheldon0789 wrote in another thread:

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Alan chill the **** out.

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Nice, sheldon. :)</p>

<p>"I know personally far too many kids short-changine their intellectual abilities in favor of pursuing the elusive "free ride" through sports"</p>

<p>Mammall, I think your problem may be you don't realize easily you slam other people with your words. Maybe you don't see it as maybe you don't view your words with a critical eye? The main reason most folks here have gotten on you is you have slamed their kids many many times. </p>

<p>As far as you last comment I pulled, I guess my response would be that's what living in a free country offers, the right to pursue your dream, not someone elses (yours, or say the government). Freedom to succeed or freedom to fail... it's a wonderful opportunity rarely present elsewhere in the world. </p>

<p>Maybe reveiw how your posting your opinion and change it to the robotics or knowledge olympiad or something and think how you'd take it, if your kid an your choices were belittled. Unfortunately, most of the stuff you posted belittled other peoples kids. You shouldn't be surprized by the reaction.</p>

<p>MOWC: "I doubt mommall has run "the occasional marathon". "</p>

<p>she's a mammal, not a mommal. Or maybe a mammal who is a mom...I guess that would be a mommal.</p>

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^Ha ha who are you, the forum police? Speaking of civil, here's what sheldon0789 wrote in another thread:
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Alan chill the **** out.
Nice, sheldon.

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<p>Uh, no I'm not the forum police...Duh. Those are easily spotted by the tag "moderator" underneath their usernames.</p>

<p>And that post was a response to a kid I know well, who is a grade below me at the high school I graduated from. If you think that good-natured ribbing amongst two teenage guys who KNOW each other can be compared to low-level attacks amongst anonymous adults, then you are sorely mistaken.</p>

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Midmo, I still have my first Junior High tennis champion trophy. It was 1973 and my partner and I tried out for and got a spot on the only tennis team our school had. We challenged our way to playing first doubles, and won the district tournament. The rest of our team was male, and all of our matches were against boys. We were a spectacle and we kind of enjoyed it.

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<p>riverrunner: Wasn't it 1973 when Billie Jean King stuffed a tennis ball, metaphorically speaking, into Bobby Rigg's big mouth?</p>

<p>Alas, by 1973 I was several years into college already. My junior high days were in the time of the dinosaur. Still, I often wish I had a stronger backbone (or some adult to back me up) when my friends and I told the authorities we thought we should be able to have a track team. I gave up way too easily.</p>

<p>BJK was my first sports hero. Any teenaged girl who was paying attention in those years got a lesson in what women could do. Between King beating Riggs and Mary Tyler Moore setting Mr. Grant straight, the doors started opening.
Thanks for reminding me!</p>

<p>Almost all people who play sports aren't going for a scholarship, but for the love of the game. The vast majority of kids find sports a hell of a lot more fun than sitting locked up in a room reading. That is why kids spend time doing them, rather than more time on academics. Generally, if kids reduce time playing sports, they'll just increase time playing computer games or whatever else.</p>

<p>Not saying that those are universal truths, or the right reasons, but that's how it is. Sure, a more academic culture could be good, and more reading would be good for most. But that isn't life today.</p>

<p>Only a very small percentage of society really wants to go to an Ivy league school, or a comparable institution. Many more go to community college, trade school, or nothing at all after HS. Most people are also much more motivated by trying to get something out of an education rather than an education for it's intrinsic value.</p>

<p>That is all too often overlooked on here. We are the freaks, not everyone else. When a 1300/1950 is bad on here, when it is considered darn good in the rest of society, and is far above average.</p>