<p>My S2, a very average student but an above average football player has played the game for 7 years straight. His grades are normally better during football season (gotta keep that gpa up to stay on the team). </p>
<p>He is certainly not wishing for some half tution scholarship to a small private no one ever heard of. As a matter of fact he has gotten quite a few letters of interest from such schools and some from schools that even CC'ers have heard of and thrown them all in the trash. Football is over for him after high school because he's just not interested in pursuing it in college. </p>
<p>He has played all these years strictly for love of the game, his school and his teammates. This is his last year. He's having his best season ever. I have no doubt that his high school football memories will be some of the best he carries with him through life. He has learned a lot from the game that he would have never learned in the classroom. We don't regret one minute of his time playing spent playing football.</p>
<p>In general, sports do get more press and thus community attention than athletic endeavors. No newspaper is ever going to publish the score Johnny got on his AP Chem exam on Friday, or even how he did on the final AP exam in May. It doesn't make for an exciting article because there's no conflict or true competition. My D has received way more attention for her athletic achievements than my S ever did for his academic ones. However, if I had had to choose for my D, I would have preferred she excel in academics instead because I do think the long-term benefits are greater. Also, getting into a good school with great grades and test scores seems to be less of a crap shoot than trying to get recruited or land a sports scholarship. But that doesn't mean I think sports aren't worthwhile. Also, in the short-term it is much more fun to watch D win a game or race than it is to watch my S write a prize-winning essay! But we shouldn't not confuse entertainment value with true value.</p>
<p>I do want to point out that unlike all the super-talented, disciplined, and high-energy Ivy-League-qualifed kids whose parents post here, there are a great many students who are unable to handle both a tough courseload and a demanding varsity sport (or any other time-intensive EC either). Freshman year we watched almost all of D's sports friends drop their honors courses because the time commitment for homework was too great and they were getting worn out. My D is quite bright and still does take honors and AP courses, but because she's an athlete she can't compete academically with kids who can stay up until 1 or 2 AM EVERY night to study. And in our high school, that's what the top kids do. If she doesn't sleep, she doesn't perform well and could even get seriously injured. The number of recruitable athletes who are also scoring perfect or near-perfect SAT scores is pretty darn low. I once spoke with an elite college recruiter at a large soccer tournament. He said that out of all the talented players there that day, he could only look seriously at one or two because the others didn't have high enough GPA's and SAT scores.</p>
<p>So, I'm with the crowd that says if a student is playing sports because he loves it, then play away! But if he's playing to have a hook and is sacrificing academics (or sleep) to do it, then I don't think it's wise. Around here, the high school's top athletes haven't tended to be admitted to the best of colleges. As a parent, I wouldn't value a sports scholarship from Podunk U if my kid could have also gotten a merit scholarship to attend there. But if athletics will earn my child admission to a top school where he probably couldn't have been admitted even if he had spent every waking minute studying, then there's the value of sports for me.</p>
<p>I never thought of sports as anything to do with getting into college when my kids grew up playing sports. They did their sports for the enjoyment. It never was a ticket to get into college. My kid was not a recruited athlete and I don't think any colleges on her list give out sports scholarships either. Nonetheless, sports were huge in her life (among many other things) and she plays them in college and one consideration in choosing colleges was to make sure she could continue playing her sports, at least on a club level, if not varsity, because she didn't want ot give up her sports. They were never a ticket INTO college but more of lifelong passions. </p>
<p>I also never saw it as athletics vs. academics. Not only did my kid excel at both (and certainly did stay up very late at night to do demanding homework after going to school all day, then sports, then dance or music in the evenings, and sports all weekend), but as I mentioned earlier on the thread, a huge chunk of the top students in our school ALSO were in sports. In our little rural school, I can think of a girl that just started at Harvard who was a star soccer player but not recruited as she is unable to play soccer due to injuries. But she was tops in academics and soccer. My own kid was at the top of the class and excelled in three sports. She was ranked first, but I can tell you that the kids ranked second, third, and fourth were star athletes. The girl ranked third was a star in three sports. One was a star in one sport and went onto Middlebury, a very selective college. While like with any EC interest area, some who do sports are so so students. But athletes are NOT exclusive of academic excellence. There ARE Scholar-Athletes. Now that my kid is IN college, I know many there who are excellent students at a demanding college and who juggle busy varsity sports commitments. </p>
<p>It just is some big assumption at the start of this thread that to do sports is exclusive of being academically inclined. As well, there is a big assumption that a kid is doing sports to earn a college scholarship or hook. That is not why I see many I know doing their sport. Their sport has been a lifelong passion, just like for other kids who love music, robotics, or other endeavors. Those heavily involved in music don't necessarily do that either to get into college or to earn a scholarship, but more for the love of music and that is a huge time commitment as well (I know as my kids are musicians).</p>
<p>By the way, I would never allow my kid to do less academically in order to do their EC activities. I wouldn't let them drop levels of courses due to the ECs and time commitments. Academics were always the first priority. My kids did not ENJOY classes that were too easy and not challenging enough. They cared about doing well in academics and we did not have to make them do homework or get good grades. But if they were not self motivated to do well in school and were letting academics go due to EC commitments, then the EC would have to be cut down. ECs are important in a balanced life. They do require excellent time management. But they cannot take over to the point of diminishing one's academic efforts or achievements. That was a given here but it was a non issue with my own kids as they wanted to do well in academics and cared about future educational goals. But if I had kids who let the ECs take priority, I would have changed things or cut down on the ECs if need be. Academics were always the huge priority but the ECs were VERY important to their lives as people. One of my kid's EC passions eventually became her college major and life's pursuit, in fact. So, I don't regret the exposure to ECs and the hours put into them. The ECs are part of their identity. I recall the OP questioning how a sport can be a "passion". For one of my kids, her sport is a passion, in addition to her academic field. For my other kid, her EC was such a passion and part of her identity that it became her life's work.</p>
<p>I am an adult (I think) and my sport is STILL my passion. I didn't start it until law school, but it is a large part of how I define myself. Perhaps it should not be, but it is. The sports I do to cross-train are important to me as well, but my running is part of my body and soul. It's like the famous running physician/writer George Sheehan said when asked at a cocktail party, "What do you do?". He answered, "About a 3:15", responding with his marathon time instead of his profession. </p>
<p>My kids also maintained top academics and also excelled at their passions- for one kid it was running and for one it was music. I am just baffled at why the OP would consider the runner to be a sub-par person as opposed to the singer! My son's prep boarding school encourages sports- at all levels. My son used to get up at 6am and run to his physic teacher's house (uphill). The teacher would drive him back to campus, stopping along the way to pick up a Wall Street Journal for my son. This school has runners at NYU, Villanova, Yale, Penn, NC, Swarthmore etc. Not to mention the incredible wrestlers that are top students at top schools. Some of these young men worked hard to get the financial help their wrestling would provide for college.
If it meant they went to a top wrestling school like Oklahoma instead of Amherst or something their family couldn't afford, so what? There are trade-offs with everything.</p>
<p>GFG: I agree with your very well thought out and balanced post. Sure, some superstars can perform at very high levels in both sports and academics. Most others need to make compromises. </p>
<p>DSC: You may be right that the "vast majority" of kids prefer sports over "sitting locked up in a room reading". But there is a very substantial minority of kids who feel exactly the opposite way. A lot of these kids want to do nothing except pursue their academic activities, and eventually go to a top college, not for the prestige, but for the opportunity to continue pursuing their intellectual activities at a higher level and be surrounded by peers who will not look down upon them because they like being "locked up in a room reading".</p>
<p>In theory, my kids did drop levels of courses so they could do ECs. In theory. That's because our high school offers 20-something APs, plus honors classes in all kinds of math and science electives. Theoretically, they could have taken 7 academic classes every semester throughout high school, including 20 APs, if they dropped band and did not play any sports. That is assuming that they WOULD have taken that many classes if they weren't doing anything else.</p>
<p>If their high school had not offered any APs, they still COULD have taken dual enrollment and AP classes through virtual school at night, on weekends, and during the summer. Woulda. Mighta. Coulda. Shoulda? My answer is not. They were better off taking a reasonable course load and having some free time to spend doing things that they enjoy.</p>
<p>If I weren't on the computer right now, I COULD be writing a play, trading stocks, or cleaning my house.</p>
<p>There is a tradeoff between academics and ECs, assuming the time consumed in ECs would be spent on academics. Its just impossible to second guess what <em>might</em> have been. I like the approach of enjoying life, pursuing your happiness, grab the ring when it passes. </p>
<p>"Do it while you're young and you have the energy!" (What my kids hear from me all the time)</p>
<p>"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." (Ferris Bueller)</p>
<p>Both of my kids AND I love to read and do a lot of it. Why is it so hard to accept that many people can do a variety of things and do them well?
Yeah, maybe Pacman Jones wasn't the top student at his college and maybe even Tony Roma wasn't- THESE are the true exceptions- athletes who are so talented that they are much more heavily weighted in one direction.</p>
<p>Like MOWC, I see no difference between sports, arts, community service, school newspaper, robotics, etc. All are interests and EC pursuits. I don't see why sports would be denigrated as this thread began. I don't value the sports ECs one bit over the other ECs my kids have done that are totally unrelated to athletics. Whatever their interests....will be. And if some kids' only interest is academics, so be it. I haven't seen one parent of an athlete here put down other interests that kids may have. Not everyone is gonna like sports and why should they? Expose kids when young to many things and they'll choose what they like.</p>
<p>I don't see the ECs being VERSUS academics. The best students I know do MORE than academics. They are engaged outside the classroom in SOMETHING of interest. The kids I also know at top colleges are not simply great students. They do more than excel at academics. I recall on college visits, hearing students speak and all the things they were involved in beyond their academic endeavors and I thought, "just like my kid." I do not believe that those who are heavily committed to outside interests, be it sports or anything else, do so to the detriment of their academics. To the contrary, if you look at many top students in HS or at those who attend selective colleges, a great majority are involved in things beyond their classroom pursuits. In fact, to get into a selective college, adcoms are looking for students who not only have great grades, took challenging HS classes, have very good SATs, have academic interest areas and goals, but who also are engaged in various other pursuits and who will contribute to those activities at the college and eventually later in society. </p>
<p>MOWC....my husband, who has "Dr." before his name.....has a sport as his number one priority in life (if you ask me)....and music is right up there too, another of his passions....and neither have to do with his profession. He went to a selective college and a professional graduate school. He is very passionate about his sport and part of living where we do had to do with his wanting to be where he could do his sport!!</p>
<p>doubleplay...I hear you. It is always a juggle to fit everything in. We live in a rural area. My girls completed the HS math curriculum (highest course is AP Calculus) in junior year. Younger D graduated a year early. But older D wanted to continue in math as she excels in math, wanted to go to a challenging college and actually is entering a field (architecture) that requires math skills. One alternative would have been to take a college class in math. Given where we live, this would mean likely a 45 mile each way commute in the afternoon or evening. This was not an option as she was booked solid in ECs. But, that didn't mean she gave up taking accelerated/college math senior year. What she did was to take second year Calculus through Johns Hopkins long distance, one period per day during the school day. Taking college classes, between where we are located, let alone her EC schedule, was not an option. She did find another way, however.</p>
<p>soozievt: Yes, the highly selective colleges are looking for the <em>superstars</em> who excel in a huge variety of activities. Yes, it sounds as though your entire family is blessed with such superstars. Yes, the "best" students do MORE than academics. </p>
<p>But by definition not everyone can be the best. The "second rate" people of this world find they have to make compromises due to constraints of time, talent, interest, opportunity, money, etc etc. And among these people, it does become an EC VERSUS academics thing. And just as we should not look down upon the football star who takes no AP classes, I submit that we should not look down upon the geeky kid who takes all AP classes but doesn't know what a touchdown is. Nor should we look down upon someone who decides to strike a balance and be just an average football player and an average student.</p>
<p>It is all about respecting the choices people make with the resources available to them.</p>
<p>You for some here, who are on that track of no sports all study... don't you realize you're just as bad as the parents who make their kids play sport for a free ride? </p>
<p>There is absolutely no guarantee that your little bright light is going to make it either. So touting how you overdo in one area of their lives is absolutely no different than the dad that hauls his kid to the batting cages 6 nights a week. </p>
<p>My concern with some of the bright lights I've observed is their mental health. Several "brillant" kids I've observed tended to be socially backwards and depressed. I do know of several that even though college is paid for didn't finish because of mental health issues. </p>
<p>Just as an athelete is expected to be the next Reggie Bush, the bright lights are expected to cure cancer. Pressure can be too much for many. An athelete can blow a knee and it's over. However, the athelete can still be productive careerwise. When the bright light burns out from stress, what next? </p>
<p>The best thing a bright light can do is pick up some physical activity (individual or team) to reduce or eliminate stress in their lives. To those parents who shun sport for all sorts of reasons, think about your child's mental health and the future. If you cannot provide a healthy way for them to deal with stress, they will create an unhealthy one. Sometimes it is important to put the books down, turn off the computer and get outside. </p>
<p>You have to realize it's not a new arguement and you and your child are experiencing it and no body else before you has. You have to think of your kid down the road and their ability to deal. The brilliants that don't have a stress outlet, can fail and fail hard. Find something sport, backpacking, etc.. to help clear their minds. I have yet to meet a "healthy" human being that does not have an outlet for stress. </p>
<p>I have always encouraged my kids to find something physical to break a sweat over to benefit their minds. The S in med school is playing rugby and it is helping him stay sane during his 80 hour weeks of study. My D rides horses and plays intermurals a couple nights a week, even though she is a nonathelete and it helps her too. Sitting your room alone "reading" with all your spare time, is NOT healthy. You can sit in denial, lots of parents before have and watch the long term damage it does to your kid.</p>
<p>Vicariousparent, you beat me to it. There just aren't that many children or adults who are renaissance people capable of doing a great many things extremely well. Hanging out on CC might make you think so, but it ain't true. The vast majority of us are lucky if we can do one, or maybe two things very well.</p>
<p>My S, who's at an Ivy now, is very disciplined, highly intelligent, and an efficient worker. He'll tell you that he knows plenty of people who are smarter than he is. Still, some of his teachers felt he was one of the brightest kids to ever pass through his high school. Nevertheless, I'm here to tell you that he struggled to balance academics and sports/EC's. In fact, his x-c and track coach told him he needed to lay off the academics if he wanted to improve his running. Why? He wasn't getting enough sleep. Most kids can't do varsity sports all 3 seasons and still get A's and 5's in 6 AP's without staying up late. His AP classmates were usually up as late as he was, and none of them played sports all 3 seasons.</p>
<p>This skimping on sleep is a dirty little secret about academic/EC success in today's environment that most parents don't want to admit. They want you to believe that their little geniuses can do it all, no sweat. A few can I'm sure, but most simply can't. On another CC thread, kids talked about spending 50+ hours per week on EC's on top of a very challenging course load. Do the math. How much sleep were they getting? Unless their AP's are less rigorous than the ones at our HS, I doubt they're sleeping more than 4 hours a night. Some people can survive and function well on that. Some people can't, and I contend that very, very few elite athletes can. So, that's why kids must prioritize and some decide to sacrifice academics a little for sports. I think the original question was a plea to understand why many kids do, rather than opting for academics over sports.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree with your post vicariousparent! I would not look down on either average students or students who only prefer academic pursuits at all. I hope I have stated many times that it not matter ONE BIT WHAT A STUDENT IS INTERESTED IN.....be it sports, arts, math team, chess club, or whatever. </p>
<p>The ONLY reason that I mentioned that many top students whom I know are ALSO athletes is because the OP talked about those who pursue athletics have to compromise academics and I was pointing out that there ARE students who do sports who also care about and excel in academics. </p>
<p>As well, many excellent students have various EC pursuits they love that are not sports related and are still interested in academics. It need NOT be either/or. Maybe it is for SOME. But the OP made broad generalizations that it had to be. Also, the OP made it sound like someone who does sports can't possibly go onto a selective college. That just ain't so. As well, who cares if they go to a selective college? Is that the only goal? Some may want or need a less selective school and maybe there are kids who use athletic scholarships to get opportunities to even attend college due to finances or other constraints. </p>
<p>My point is not about the best students. Nobody has to be the "best student." I was responding to the broad generalizations that the OP made and sharing experiences that I have observed that do not fit her brush stroke.</p>
<p>So what if the kid doesn't get all A s. So what if the kid doesn't take 10 APs. I would rather have a well-rounded kid, even if he or she is NOT at the top of the sport! If you can only get into a highly selective school by sacrificing everything but studying, then it isn't worth it. I really believe that. My son had far from straight A s, and got into one top DIII school (twice, in fact) where the coach had little pull with Admissions. I really think the best schools are looking way beyond a zillion APs and not a B on the transcript. Neither of my kids would even WANT to be at a school with only that type of kid. Part of the neat thing about college is the many different types of kids and the many talents they bring to the community.<br>
That was one of the things I admired about Interlochen. The academic faculty recognized how important the arts were to the students there, and while the academics remained top-notch, there was an absence of "busywork" and a respect for other commitments.</p>
<p>sooz, I've been reading your posts for a year now. Whether you're trying to or not, through your anecdotes you consistently represent your children and their friends as not just participating but excelling in multiple pursuits. Surely, as a college counselor, you must know that true excellence in many things at once is uncommon.</p>
<p>GFG- It's really not as uncommon as you think. Who do you think is getting into these highly selective colleges? Many top athletes are also great students- the discipline and drive just tends to help in more than one area of life. There are many exceptions, but I think more kids than not at my kids' schools excelled in more than one area. They might not have been the best in the state, but they showed tremendous achievement in two or more areas.</p>
<p>Opie, I agree 100% about the dangers of excessively pursuing academic activities, even if the kids are doing it for their own pleasure. It is the role of a parent to try and encourage balance in the long term interest of the child.</p>
<p>The parents of the sports athlete need to make sure he or she is getting a good education and the parents of the geeky nerd have to make sure he or she is staying fit and getting some air. </p>
<p>My point is that there will always be some kids who love sports but hate academics and other kids who love academics but hate sports. As parents, we have to guide them in keeping some balance in their lives, while at the same time encouraging them to pursue their passions to the fullest.</p>
<p>The GFG....the thing is, I do NOT think my kids are unique. The kids I have met at their colleges have done similar things. Less local kids may have been like this but lots of kids around the country do well in both academics and other interest areas. I never said it was the norm of all students. My posts were in response to the OP's points which were broad assumptions that did not fit many kids I knew, including my own, but not limited to my own. </p>
<p>By the way, I have many advisees pursuing theater or musical theater who are straight A students. I cannot begin to tell you the time committments these kids have with voice lessons, acting lessons/classes, dance classes in many disciplines, piano lessons, and rehearsals for shows in and out of school (huge time just for that alone), (some do other things as well) and in the case of senior year, besides applications that all seniors have, ALSO have audition prep and audition trips to fit in to get into BFA programs that accept between 2-10% of all applicants. Most of these kids are very similarly over extended in terms of their waking hours, like my D who is pursuing Musical Theater (but my D who did sports and arts had similar time commitments). Quite a number of my current clients are just as busy as my kids were in HS and quite a number have straight As as well. My point is that there are kids who have EC passions who ALSO are good students which the OP claimed otherwise.</p>