Stanford back on national news (in a bad way)

Just saw this on a morning news show. Another alleged sexual assault case, with school officials doing nothing to stop it.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/lawsuit-accuses-stanford-failing-act-years-sexual-assault-n692916

Schools are getting hit hard from both sides. We’ll see how this one plays out.

Re Hanna’s comment #1, “how this one plays out,” . . . not well for the staff member who advised the student to got to the beach to get over it, I’m guessing.

A few related articles just came into my feed. On surface I’m not sure how the college can be accused of acting “indifferently” since apparently the uni investigated him, put some restrictions in place and ultimately kicked him off campus…but these lawsuits keep rolling in with mixed outcomes. If this guy’s actions were so egregious that these complainants don’t feel the outcome was strong enough, then perhaps he should have been held accountable in a court of law with criminal charges and the potential of jail time if the guy is a risk to the larger society of the uni and the town in my opinion. In this case multiple accusations could have “added” to a prosecutor’s desires to prosecute. Accusers either need to take that step to contact the police or colleges and universities need to turn it over to the police and criminal system. This fence straddling serves no one in my opinion and I’m really tired of the whining about how “unfair” the criminal justice system is, apparently the feelings are the same regarding the kangaroo courts in unis or we wouldn’t see all these lawsuits. If the primary complaint is that the uni acted indifferently I don’t think the complainants will win this suit but there is every chance the college will pay out a settlement to make the suit go away…and people wonder why tuition keeps rising…

All usual provisos in place about who knows what is true, etc, etc. But @hanna is absolutely correct. This is the other side of colleges inserting themselves (or being inserted) into areas that have traditionally been law enforcement responsibilities. There is a reason the police are immune from suits like this. When you are responsible for “keeping someone safe”, those who are not will feel like you failed in your responsibility.

This suit is brought under Title IX requirement for “equal access to educational opportunities”. Even if Federal court in SF finds for Ms. Doe, higher courts will probably reverse .

I agree that students need to report these incidents directly to police- at least campus police- not residential life services or Deans offices. That remedy provides more protection to victims and might also cause schools to investigate and act more aggressively and formally.

Edited for political comments
ED

The point is that perhaps colleges are not really well suited to run quasi judicial proceedings. We have seen this most often in the cases highlighting the ridiculously biased outcomes and processes, and now we may begin to see it from the side that feel colleges are not being aggressive enough. It is a very difficult spot for a college to be in. This is one of the reasons why I and a few others have harped on and on about how issues like this are best handled through the normal legislative and administrative process, rather than through short cuts.

Edited for political comments
ED

In a statement to NBC News, the ERA added: “Institutions like Stanford need to be held accountable for their failure to recognize the severity of these crimes and to comply with Title IX.”

Unless things have changed, a person in this country is still innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Stanford said in a statement that sexual assault and misconduct were “abhorrent and antithetical to the values of our campus,” but suggested it was not able to act because one or more of the victims did not want to pursue formal charges.

If none of the victims pursued criminal charges, then the accused is not guilty of a crime under the law. Stanford did eventually ban the accused from campus, but I’m not sure how they could not award him degrees he earned. Again, he was never convicted of a crime. As a female with a daughter, I do wonder what outcomes people are hoping will occur simply by saying they were victims of assault (sexual or otherwise) if they are unwilling to report the crime to the proper authorities. Unless we make college personnel mandatory reporters, it really is up to the victim to report the crime to either campus police or local law enforcement.

Now, if the victim does report it to campus police and the university does nothing … then that is a whole other story.

It’s not just reporting a crime. The woman needs to testify. I think that’s the hurdle here. Without testimony there is frequently no case.

Regarding university disciplinary action in the absence of a criminal conviction, that certainly is possible, since universities penalize things that are not illegal otherwise (e.g. what they consider cheating).

Of course, the above does not necessarily say anything about whether Stanford handled this case well or poorly.

In general, serious crimes like this should bring in the police, regardless of whether there is any other university action.

Stanford police is a branch of the county sheriff department.

“After years of warnings, Stanford did eventually find Mr. X responsible for several charges of sexual assault, the lawsuit said, banning him from campus and imposing no-contact orders, according to the suit. But the university still awarded him both his bachelor’s and master’s degrees.”

If this statement is true, Stanford is in trouble, at least in terms of PR. If all there are true, expelling the student, without degrees granted, would be the only right decision, IMO.

For people who have not looked at the original article, here are a few comments about the reactions from Stanford employees to whom Ms. A spoke, from the article:

"Ms. A told several university officials about the allegations, one of whom noted she was wearing a sweater that revealed part of her shoulder and asked her to consider whether she ‘placed herself in potentially risky situations because she wanted to appear sexually available,’ according to the lawsuit.

According to the complaint, another suggested she take steps to ‘deal with her rape and improve her mental health, such as renting a car and going to a beach.’ "

From the article, here are comments on what happened to Ms. A:

“he was alleged to have repeatedly sexually assaulted another female student, identified as ‘Ms. A,’ over the course of several months. The complaint said this culminated in Mr. X strangling Ms. A ‘nearly to the point of unconsciousness’ before whispering ‘no one will notice when you die’ and raping her.”

So suppose you are Ms. A, and after you report this to university officials, you are advised to rent a car and go to the beach to get over it. How seriously do they appear to be taking your report? Do you really have reason to believe that the police will treat you better, if you report it to them? Were you advised to report the assault(s) to the police? I can understand that the presumed victim would think this would be futile, in the climate that apparently exists.

If there are reports of caring responses by any officials at Stanford, I would be interested in learning about them.

“not well for the staff member who advised the student to go to the beach to get over it”

Assuming this happened, I’d love to know the context. Maybe the Stanford staffer is a callous idiot. Or maybe at the end of a lengthy and supportive conversation, the student said, “I always feel so much better about this when I’m at the beach,” and the counselor responded, “Maybe you can rent a car and go to the beach more often.” I could believe either one (or that it never happened).

When I was a university counselor, a student once reported me to the dean and claimed I had told her that if she were a minority, she would have gotten a certain job interview. Nobody who can tie their shoelaces is stupid enough to say that to a student. I had told her that I knew this employer cared a lot about seeing diverse candidates. Then I told her I would find a way to add her to the interview list. She did the interview and didn’t get the job. But the student remembered ME saying what SHE was thinking…and didn’t mention to the dean that I’d gotten her the interview in the end.

Re Post #11: If my child were a victim, I would most definitely tell her (or him even) to report the incident to the police. I would also assume that the university would do anything in its power to keep such an incident hush-hush, and as such, I would not expect any help or cooperation from said university.

Hindsight is 20/20 lol

"In many cases, staff implied the alleged victims were themselves to blame, according to the lawsuit, even suggesting that one of them should take a drive to the beach to “deal with her rape.”

What type of staff person are we taking about here? A faculty member, dorm resident assistant , campus police? As @Hanna has stated "Who would be stupid enough to say that to a student? That person should be fired or expelled as well. I don’t see this as just a Stanford problem but collective US campus problem. I agree that the community police should be involved in these assault cases.

Re Hanna’s post #12: I acknowledge that sometimes students do not understand what people are telling them. However, I think you need to look at the totality of the circumstances.

For one thing, the last I knew, it was quite difficult for a person under 25 to rent a car. For a second thing, I have spent some time at Stanford and very few of the students I knew went to any beach. The beaches are relatively far away–one can’t just take a quick jaunt out to a beach and back. Admittedly, I knew STEM students, but I doubt anyone at Stanford could go to the beach often. For another thing, the woman said that she had been choked nearly to the point of unconsciousness. That requires a deeply empathetic response, as does her report that the man said, “No one will notice when you die.”

I am a strong supporter of affirmative action and of diversity in all its forms. However, I feel that the remarks to the student that, “I knew this employer cared a lot about seeing diverse candidates. Then I told her I would find a way to add her to the interview list,” sound to me like a lightly cloaked way of saying what the student claimed was said. This just reinforces anti-affirmative action thinking.

The cause of action is for negligence. Plaintiffs need to show duty ,breach of duty, and proximate cause to prevail. This has nothing to do with criminal matters. Anyone can be sued for negligence if they were negligent. I would say that colleges generally have a duty to provide a safe campus. The facts will determine whether they are liable

It’s a nice thought but, my my last company had a director level job that they ONLY filled with minority candidates…and it was something quite out in the open. They moved the person every two years and recruited the next one only at the HBUs for that position (although it was posted to the jobs website). If were advising someone, I’d be very careful what I said, but let’s be honest as long as data gets kept, companies will figure out how to make the numbers. If you know that resume is going into File 13 by the manager then phrase it carefully and as considerately as you can.

Context is everything and there is too little information on the women’s claims to pass judgement on what or what context the university personnel said whatever they said. It could as easily been something meant to be kind to someone who was all over the place with their story (e.g. go sit on the beach and pull your thoughts together and come back when you are ready to make a formal statement) as it could have been thoughtless and dismissive.

Sorry crossposted - I was referencing post #16 with the nice thought but…comment.