Long time Stanford graduate here, with a question regarding my daughter’s application coming up in a few months. She is a superb dancer and has won many competitions, awards, etc. She would like to apply through the dance program and is considering early admission. Is this a bad idea? She has a video she put together, sort of like a demo reel. She’s been offered positions on professional dance troupes but she has her heart set on her parents’ alma matter. #GoStanford
She’s straight A’s with many APs, ACT 31, 4s and 5s on AP tests. Lots of extracurriculars and of course tons and tons of dance, both professional level and captain of dance team in HS x 2 years.
I would appreciate any insight about 1) applying early, 2) going through the Stanford dance program first where she can upload a video of her dancing as well as submit the application to the performing arts folks prior to the general admission committee.
Thank you to all and if you have questions about life at Stanford, feel free to post and ask me. Kate
I don’t think you apply to the Stanford Dance program. You apply like everyone else to the admissions office but you can send an arts supplement. I believe such applications are due mid October and not November 1. This assumes you are applying REA.
I think there is a minor legacy advantage–if at least one of your parents was a Stanford undergrad. It sounds like this is the case here. I also think to get the legacy tip you must apply early. Stanford is not explicit about this, but it is certainly the case at other schools.
The problem with REA is that you are precluded from applying early to most other schools. To be blunt about it, I think most kids are shooting themselves in the foot by applying early to Stanford because it precludes them from applying early to other good schools that are not as hard to get into.
I obviously don’t know about your daughter. 31 is probably below the class median at Stanford. All A’s is great, but how hard/good is her secondary school? Dance sounds like a passion. If she can show national or international performance/awards that would probably help.
Your D is a both a legacy and has a passion for dance. This may be enough to get her in. Her other stats wont help. Have you thought about NYU or USC since they seem to be more centered on the performing arts? She might be much happier there
It is true that submitting such a supplement affects the application deadline for both REA and RD.
Regarding legacy advantage–to my knowledge, it’s there whether your daughter applies early or regular.
She certainly has competitive academic stats (i.e., if she gets rejected, then it won’t be because of her stats). Therefore, I would recommend applying early with an Art Supplement if she prefers to get a decision from Stanford by mid-December.
Her unusual excellence in and passion for dance will certainly be a nice “hook.” Stanford undoubtedly loves people who are excellent at things, but what it loves even more are people who are genuinely passionate about the things they do (i.e., they aren’t doing an activity simply to get into college).
Thank you for the responses. Much appreciated. Yes legacy x 2, captain of the HS team that placed 3rd in the nation and beyond obsessed with dance. Lots of APs (I think 4 or 5 her Jr year). I think what I heard however is that the early applicants are a more “self selective group” of very capable students and I understand that the “pool” is more competitive. Hence my worry about her applying early. I know it precludes other schools but she’s pretty much set at UCLA (offered position this summer) which would put her in LA, allow her to dance on a professional company she was invited into, etc. And yet, she really, really would like to be up at Stanford.
I have tried and tried to get her to look at USC. To be honest, I think it’s just personal with her. She doesn’t like the location and when she went to visit, she had a very snooty bunch of kids show her around. It just turned her off. I try to tell her that 4-5 kids don’t make a school but it just shows you how important those little tours can be to make or break someone’s impression of a school. Granted she’s 17 and probably too young to see past it, but so are so many other kids who leave schools with negative impressions after an hour long tour!
That does sound like an impressive level of accomplishment in dance. Just one point since you mentioned UCLA, I don’t believe there’s any issue with applying both early at Stanford and at UCLA, since UCLA is (1) public and (2) doesn’t have an early option in any case.
Also unless UCLA uses Likely Letters or some other form of early indication of admission for dance (like what Stanford and some other schools use for recruited athletes) I don’t believe your daughter will get official word from the UCLA admissions office until next spring.
Yes I think it’s an athletic recruit equivalent for UCLA that she received. I dunno if applying to the performing arts at Stanford essentially has the same result (if they want you) where you would be recruited, and then your portfolio would be presented to the admissions committee to see if you qualify academically. Does anyone know?
@kath00 - I am trying to understand exactly what you mean by applying to the “Stanford Dance Program.” Dance is available as a minor under Theater and Performance Studies. https://majors.stanford.edu/dance-taps-minor/dance
Are you thinking that one must be admitted as a dance student as one might be in a performing arts school? Or as a musician might be in a conservatory? I don’t think that is the case??? I don’t think Stanford recruits dancers (or any other types of performers). A passion for the arts can certainly be a desirable quality to one’s application, and an arts supplement is definitely a good idea if one is highly skilled in one’s craft. However, I don’t think the dance program is audition-based, which seems to be what you are asking. I could be completely wrong. I’ve just never seen this on the Stanford forum here before - at least not from this approach.
No I realize there is no official dance program but through the Performing Arts department one is able to submit a demo reel and have them review your file for admission BEFORE the whole file gets sent to the regular admission committee. I realize it’s not a major (unlike UCLA).
I would think that since she’s getting offers from professional dance groups and UCLA, that her dancing is likely good enough to stand out as distinctive to Stanford admissions. How much they’ll care about/weight that I don’t know.
FWIW though Stanford is conscious of getting its fair share of humanities and arts students as it does not want to be known just for CS, and I notice a definite tendency to showcase students who are singers, musicians etc. at Stanford events.
@kath00 - my ds sent in an arts supplement (music). You are correct. The supplement gets reviewed first which is why it has the earlier deadline. I guess I’m not understanding your question. Sorry
@bluewater2015 posted the link for the supplement (I see it is now called a portfolio). It appears from that link that a letter from an instructor is now required which was not the case when my ds applied. Pay particular attention to the specific requirements and follow them. It appears from my quick glance that dance is limited to a 7-minute performance. Do NOT exceed that.
Submitting a portfolio is suggested for high level performers, which your dd clearly is. I do not believe that performing artists are “recruited” in the way one typically thinks of that. Her portfolio would be reviewed by arts faculty first and any comments by them would then be sent along to admissions and would become part of her entire application. This is how it was explained to me by a member of the music faculty. In that regard, anyone who submits an arts portfolio goes through that review process first. How much weight those forwarded comments would carry and how influential they are in admissions depends on what is said.
If Stanford is your daughter’s first choice, she should apply REA. Her exceptional dance abilities will certainly be helpful. No one can predict if they will be a tipping point. That said, her ACT is low for Stanford. Can the dance offset that? No idea. Has she taken any Subject Tests yet? Many students who apply have straight A’s, lots of AP exams with 4s and 5s, lots of extracurriculars and tons and tons of something they are passionate about at which they at exceptional. This makes her a typical Stanford applicant. I have no idea about the impact of legacy.
My ds was deferred REA and admitted in the regular cycle.
I agree with most of what @Hoggirl wrote above. Stanford values high achievement/excellence and passion in ECs, and the OPs daughter clearly has that in dance. A supplement - rigidly adhering to the requirements outlined - will likely be helpful, though how much is unknown. It won’t be the same as recruitment in a sport, but it will help. Double legacy certainly doesn’t hurt, either. The ACT score is the biggest question mark - Stanford is particularly known for taking who they want and ignoring numbers in favor of a “holistic” picture, but the REA applicant pool is extremely strong.
“It just turned her off. I try to tell her that 4-5 kids don’t make a school but it just shows you how important those little tours can be to make or break someone’s impression of a school. Granted she’s 17 and probably too young to see past it, but so are so many other kids who leave schools with negative impressions after an hour long tour!”
I visited Stanford’s campus back in 2007. I was watching some students play co-ed Ultimate Frisbee in a club league on campus. When one of them found out I was a prospective student he asked me to join in. They had official team rosters but no one seemed to care. They were so friendly I decided right then Stanford was my first choice. On the flight back home (I’m from Pennsylvania) I told my father I didn’t want to spend time traveling to other schools because I had made up my mind.
That was a ridiculous way to make a decision although it seems to have worked out ok. I now work at Google and still live in Palo Alto.
@googledrone, that’s more than I had. I matriculated at Stanford back in 1979. There was no Internet with detailed school descriptions, no paid visit days for accepted applicants. I was from the Boston area, and while Stanford had a general reputation as “the Ivy of the west”, no one that I knew had gone there or knew much specific about it. Flying out to California to visit was never an option. But I picked up the Stanford admissions bulletin and decided pretty quickly that it was the place for me - there was clearly a huge difference in spirit and a freshness from the Ivy leagues that I knew. My first real exposure to Stanford was getting off the orientation bus for freshman week, and my experience was pretty much what I expected, and I never had any regrets.
Thanks all for the replies. Yes I too applied to Stanford in the “dark ages” of type writers and having to hit that “X” just right to place it in the boxes. HAHAHA. I absolutely cherished and loved my time there as did my DH and the other 5 students from my high school who were accepted that year (a rarity even now). I appreciate everyone’s comments. Congrats to those of you who have children there now. It seems like it is quite a process now although I think Stanford has always looked for incredibly bright kids who were self starters and enthusiasts in whatever interest they had. I don’t think that has changed one bit. Even though now the numbers are about 10,000 more applicants per year then when I applied…
I think my biggest question now is REA vs regular admission. I keep hearing the early admission pool is much more competitive in REA. And where we come from, not too many kids get in (average of 1 a year from our HUGE local high school of 900 grads).
This should be an easy decision: Your daughter should apply REA to Stanford and apply as early as possible to her second choice, which I understand to be UCLA.
I think that many kids who apply early to Stanford are making a mistake because applying early to Stanford they may not apply early to other private schools. Many of these kids have no realistic chance at Stanford, but might have a shot if they applied early to (say) Dartmouth or NYU.
I was at a session a few years ago held by the dean of admissions at MIT for faculty and staff. He said that most schools are not honest about the advantages of applying early. He said that you virtually always get a boost by applying early. Sometimes the boost is minor, such as at MIT or Stanford. But sometimes the boost is major, such as at Penn. (These examples are mine, not his.) The reason for the boost is very simple: Schools are fixated on their admit and yield rates. When a kid applies early, both of those rates are likely to go up.
If your daughter’s second choice were Dartmouth, I would say she might be making a mistake applying early to Stanford. Frankly, with her board scores, even being a legacy it might be a stretch. (I obviously don’t know the other details of her applicant.) But given that her second choice is UCLA, she can have her cake and eat it too.
You keep mentioning that the applicant pool is stronger early than regular for Stanford. That may be true; I have never seen any statistics. But there are statistics that the admit rate is far higher for kids who apply REA at Stanford than for those who apply regular. I think it is about 3 times higher (about 10% v. 3%).
There is also a belief that if a legacy doesn’t apply early but applies in the regular round, it means that the legacy isn’t really interested and is just applying to satisfy Mom or Dad. Makes sense to me.
Unless your daughter’s preferences change, my very strong recommendation is for her to apply early to Stanford and really stress the dance, and to apply as early as she can to UCLA. Both are great schools. Best of luck to her!
I think the boost from applying early is MUCH more significant at Early Decision schools than at Early Action schools. I would suspect a bigger boost at Penn and Dartmouth (which I believe are ED) as opposed to MIT or Stanford which are EA. Not sure how the “restricted” or “single choice” aspect of HYPS impacts boost. But students who are applying ED are really putting all their eggs in one basket whereas students at EA schools are not.
Agreed with everything you said except the last sentence. You aren’t putting all your eggs in one basket by applying ED. If you don’t get in ED, just apply to a bunch of schools on the regular round.
Lots of APs (I think 4 or 5 her Jr year). I think what I heard however is that the early applicants are a more “self selective group” of very capable students and I understand that the “pool” is more competitive. Hence my worry about her applying early. I know it precludes other schools but she’s pretty much set at UCLA (offered position this summer) which would put her in LA, allow her to dance on a professional company she was invited into, etc. And yet, she really, really would like to be up at Stanford.