I guess it comes down to how one defines āeliteā. Iām certain OP can receive an elite education at either school. On a somewhat related note, my good friend drives a ferrarri. Iām welcome to borrow it whenever. I guess some people find the car āeliteā; I find it hard to get in and out of, too noisy, messes up my hair with the roof down and there is barely room for a decent-sized handbag. Beauty and value are in the eyes of the beholder. To each his own.
@ewho I love that data. Thanks for sharing. Although 2012 and 2013 are already the āStone Ageā as this process has evolved in the last few years.
It is exactly as one would expect. Stanford loses no more than 2% or 13 students per school outside of hypm. Including Cal etc. that makes sense to me. 40 students may choose another school.
Many others who attend elsewhere, who are Stanford qualified but choose to not apply for fit, financial or some other reason.
So it makes sense that someone who takes the time to apply to a school as good as this would attend if admitted and no other data.
This appears to say approximately 40 students would choose somewhere other than Stanford after being admitted other than hyp.
My suggestion is only that one of these should be a Wake Stamps scholar, a few to Duke and a Jefferson or two. And the others probably at Cal or Amherst/Williams or Pomona etc.
I used a ācar exampleā that was directional only. I donāt know cars at all. I made up an example. Lol.
Please feel free to use whatever car comparison and figures that work !
The larger point can be seen - I hope, regardless of one being a convertible and the other bring a sedan etc. lol.
The point being, Mercedes Benz is an elite category but there are gradations in that tier. However, would one prefer the free e class over the full cost s class?
It depends, is what this thread leads me to believe.
Obviously, neither school is perfect. As a Wake alumna, all I can speak to is this: while youāre considering your choice, make sure that Wake Forest would be a good fit socially for your child.
Itās a small school with a definite culture. When I attended, it was preppy, conservative, and heavily Greek. I know itās different now with a somewhat different vibe, and I know that most kids can find their kind anywhere. Just remember that at a school of 5000 people, it may be more difficult to find your tribe if your tribe is in the minority.
Well I was miserable at Wake Forest. Intellectually and educationally, I was fine - great professors, rigorous classes, etc. Socially, I was very unhappy. I never did find that critical mass of like-minded kids.
Thatās just me, though. Plenty of people love Wake! Please just do your homework about all aspects of the schools before deciding.
Why thank you @privatebanker!! Yes, things did turn out fine for me - I finally found my people in grad school. Looking back, though, I just wish I had chosen a different undergrad.
I also went to a small LAC. I was happy there for the first 2 years and I out grew it very quickly. Both of my kids wanted a large uni experience instead of LAC. They excluded schools like William, Dartmouth, and I did not encourage them to go to my very good LAC.
Itās refreshing to hear this feedback actually. So many on CC seem to indicate the lac experience and smaller classes, more student focused profs etc are clearly superior to the big school in many ways.
I think both paths can be sensational for the right student. But depending on which one you personally chose yourself or your child selected - seem to color our views and the advice rendered on these pages.
Your input is so important, itās has a leveling effect on the dialogue. And it does go counter to the usual selection bias we all tend to exhibit. Myself included.
Every person is different. Our fond memories of youth, a missed or longed for opportunitity of the past or a current childās college choice - is but one personal perspective. Itās a good idea to step back and let the emotions cool.
Both of my kids with to the same large uni, one STEM and another humanities major. After the first year, most of their classes were small, very similar to LAC classes. They connected with their professors, and they got great LORs from the professors who knew them well. D2 still has a professor who looks her up whenever he is in NYC.
D2 had a falling out with a group of friends while in college and she was able to pivot and find another tribe quickly. I found that would have been a bit difficult at my LAC - we knew everyone, and knew all the dramas.
It is easy to make a big school smaller by joining clubs and socialize with students in oneās major, but it is hard to make a small school bigger.
My .02 on LAC vs an uni.
I havenāt read through most posts of this 11 page thread, so Iām sure Iām missing things. I didnāt see the OP mention much about what his son is looking for in a college. For example, what types of majors is he thinking about? What would he like to do after college and as a career? What criteria is important to him in choosing a college? How does he feel about the 2 colleges and relative preferences? This type of thing is critical when comparing acceptance decisions.
In the end itās likely to depend on individual values and priorities without a simple right and wrong answer. The vast majority of full pay kids admitted to Stanford or comparable could likely could have gotten a near full ride at another quality college, yet they choose to attend the highly selective college instead. And there are also plenty of kids who choose the near free college with a merit scholarship over HYPSMā¦ (usually by not applying to a highly selective college) and think it would be ridiculous to spend $70k+/year when they can get something similar near free. Neither one is automatically correct or incorrect.
I attended Stanford and think it was a great school. Had I attended Wake Forest instead, I believe my life outcome would have been completely differentā¦ not so much because of the prestige of the degree name, but more intangibles. For example, I entered a double co-terminal masterās program offered by Stanford that involves combining 3 degrees at the same time ā a bachelors, a masterās in a techy field, and a masterās in a more business related field. The idea of the program was to foster tech entrepreneurship by combining studying tech with studying business. I doubt that WF offers anything similar. While in this program, I heard about a lot of success stories, was able to meet one of the founders of Yahoo, and had other unique opportunities. This likely contributed to me choosing to start my own small Internet company, which quickly became a larger source of income than my engineering day job. I doubt this would have happened had I attended WF.
I grew up in NYS and enjoyed the CA climate and lifestyle so much that I favored living in CA, which fit well with the vast majority of recruiters attending career fairs being from CA. This relates to me living in CA today. Had I attended WF, I probably would have been living in a different area of the country, likely NC. I have family in NC and also enjoy that area, particularly closer to OBX and the Smoky Mountains. Itās also possible that my life would be better and Iād be more content had I attended WF. The only thing I can say for sure, is my life would be quite different.
@hariputralake
From your other thread, your son has amazing choices. If you can comfortably afford 20k per year with federal student loans (27k total), then send him where he wants to go. It will be worth it in the long run.
This is not just about college ranking or eliteness, or tier 1 vs tier 2.
It is about which environment is best suited for 4 important years of his life.
If finances or job security was of the slightest concern, then definitely go for merit.
Is it possible that OPs son would be average at S and not go into an elite field ? Yes!! Ultimately it depends on the student to take advantage of the opportunities. That can happen only where they are excited and motivated. Fit matters, especially when comparing very diff schools, like S and WF.
Sharing the stats was great. Itās funny what some people consider to be elite. IMHO, based on stats alone a school with an acceptance that high is not elite, not even close. I think people often try to compare a very high quality item with an item that is similar but not of the same quality. A house for example is not based on size alone, but on location, details and the community.
Colleges also differ. The top of any single thing is always very hard to create, obtain and grasp. An A+ student is vastly different from one who gets B+ or even A-. The last % matters a lot. Thatās where the excellence lies and that is where the vast majority of people who change the world and create mega companies thrive. No one is saying Wake Forest isnāt a strong school. What they are saying is, there are likely many Stanford kids who are going to make huge things happen. What is the likelihood of those kids going to Wake Forest? Small. Even the cohort of Stamps scholars isnāt going to make WF a school with amazing innovations and research opportunities that are world class.
Try this, ask someone in Paris about Wake Forest. Then ask someone in Paris if they have ever heard of Stanford. These days the world is global and so are opportunities. Having a great school behind you follows you for life. IF you are going to live close to WF your whole life, then thereās probably no issue.
