<p>I posted this on the Columbia board, so I thought I might as well get the opinions of those on the Stanford board as well.
First of all I'm a Canadian citizen living in Winnipeg. I'll be applying to some US colleges for the 2008/2009 application season.
Right now I'm very interested in applying ED to Columbia or SCEA at Stanford. But because I cannot apply early to both schools I am having a hard time choosing between the two.
Also, I'm not quite familiar with how financial aid is evaluated by US colleges yet, so I'm not sure about what kind of financial aid I can expect from either colleges.</p>
<p>Let me delve more into the pros and cons of each school from my own perspective. Please correct any of my incorrect assumptions.</p>
<p>Columbia</p>
<p>Pros:
-Financial aid! Columbia has a need blind policy for Canadian citizens and Mexican citizens as well. Also, I've heard that with the Kluge donation families with annual incomes of less than 50k are given fin aid packages with grants only! This is a huge plus for me because I believe that I fit in this category... Not exactly sure though.
-New York and Wall Street. I'm very interested in going into finance after
college. Reading previous posts gives me a sense that Columbia has a bit of an advantage in terms of internships at big firms, simply because internships can be done during the school year due to proximity.
-The academics. The core sounds very exciting to me. Although I'm more of a science/math person (I'll be applying to SEAS), I've always valued reading and learning about other disciplines, simply to broaden my perspective. Also the SEAS department offers many of the engineering majors I am interested in.</p>
<p>Cons:
-The weather. I know this is a stupid reason but I've always wanted to go to a warmer climate for my undergraduate years. Although New York is a great improvement from Winnipeg, the lure of California is still tempting.
-Academic flexibility. Although I like the idea of the core, it does limit what I can take during my 4 years of undergrad at the school. I've also looked at some of the "tracks" for each engineering major, and they all seem to be very rigid and structured.</p>
<p>Stanford:</p>
<p>Pros:
-The weather...
-Greater academic flexibility in terms of course choices.</p>
<p>Cons:
-Need aware for all international students. Here is where the dilemma takes place. My father is an employee under the government, and as such he can take out no interest loans for all tuition fees of his children. If I really want to, I can apply for no fin-aid at Stanford for SCEA and possibly receive a greater admissions boost. However a loan is a loan, and I'll be in huge debt when I graduate. I just don't know if this is worth it. From another perspective, the fact that I have this option may also reduce my CU fin aid package? Again I'm not so sure how all of this factors in.</p>
<p>Personally I think I'd be more happy at Stanford, but I don't think I'd be miserable at Columbia either.
I think the tipping point in my decision would be based on the possible fin-aid package I could be receiving from Columbia. My family has an annual income of about 40-45k. What kind of aid package can I expect? If it's on the low end I think I'd be more comfortable applying to Stanford.
Any advice and opinions on what you would do would be highly appreciated!</p>
<p>
[quote]
-New York and Wall Street. I'm very interested in going into finance after
college. Reading previous posts gives me a sense that Columbia has a bit of an advantage in terms of internships at big firms, simply because internships can be done during the school year due to proximity.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>you better make sure about this because unless Columbia has a coop program, as an international student the max number of hours you can work off campus during academic year is 20hr/week. And there are lots of regulations and paperwork related to getting a work sponsorship during academic year.</p>
<p>You can apply EA to Stanford and RD to Columbia, see where you get in, and what fin aid you get, and then decide based on that. If you go with ED and get into Columbia, Stanford is no longer an option.</p>
<p>Didn't Stanford eliminate tuition fees for students whose family make less than $45k? I'm pretty sure you'll get about the same amount of money at Stanford and CU.</p>
<p>I'm not so sure I would give that advice about applying to ED schools. If the OP likes Columbia and Stanford equally and she isnt an "All-Star" applicant she might benefit from the boost Columbia ED gives to get her in to a top choice of hers rather than apply SCEA at Stanford (as competitive as RD) and RD at Columbia and get neither school. As of now, I would advise applying Columbia ED, and I am a Stanford 12'er so I'm not trying to bias you into choosing a certain school. I also wouldn't worry about the finaid situation much, if Stanford wants you they'll take you regardless of you need. The financial aid package you'll get from both schools would be near equal, your family won't have to contribute more than 5k tops to your education. This advice is based fully on the competitiveness of getting into top schools, assuming you like Stanford and Columbia equally. </p>
<p>....However, here comes the bias :). Personally if I were you I wouldn't like Columbia and Stanford equally. If you want to study engineering Columbia does not compare to Stanford in the quality of it's programs. Simply put Stanford is tangibly superior to Columbia in most engineering fields. I find it odd that you did not mention Stanford's prowess in engineering as a big "PRO". Furthermore, Stanford offers more engineering majors than Columbia does so chances are it offers more majors that you're interested in. Also, Stanford is tops in liberal arts just as is Columbia so don't worry about not being able to learn about other disciplines. Also, if it helps, Stanford engineers represent a bigger portion of the class than Columbia engineers do. Columbia is a great school, but as an engineer I don't see how you would view both schools as equally great. But, if you come to that conclusion listen to my previous advice. Good Luck!</p>
<p>The question is, are you willing to commit to attending the school if accepted? If not, it would be unwise to apply early. If you love Columbia and would be thrilled to be a student there, applying ED might make some sense, but otherwise don't apply ED! </p>
<p>If you want the best financial aid package you can get, you might be better off not applying ED anywhere. I'm not sure how difficult it is to get out of the ED agreement (that you'll attend) if the financial aid package isn't great, but I imagine they don't make it easy for you. </p>
<p>While it may be true that if the OP applies early to Columbia that increases the chance of getting in to at least one of the two schools, I'm still not sure that would be the right move.</p>
<p>To be honest I really want to shoot for Stanford, and I really want to increase my chances of getting in.
Do you think it's worth it to apply for no fin aid early decision and hope for the best?
If I do get in is it worth it to have about 100k debt when I graduate? (Assuming that I pay some off during the school year)</p>
<p>Anon, though competition is 'fiercer' for internationals, if they want you, they'll get you, no matter what. Unless you're a Test-GPA-Automaton, and have been really active in your community and have done pretty outstanding non-academic stuff, you may have as good of a chance as the regular american
/From another international applicant for '13</p>
<p>Yeah you guys are right.
I guess I was just getting delusional because I want to go to this school so badly.
Thanks for waking me back into reality =)</p>
<p>And actually nngmm, I won't end up with 200k debt. I have various ways of financing my education and I'm actually confident that I can earn 5k-10k each year to finance my education. Also my uncles have explicitly stated that they would help pay my tuitions if I came to their companies for the summers to work for them. The rest can be covered by my dad's no interest loan program at work. Notice that I haven't even mentioned a parental contribution =) .
I'm starting to think that Stanford is actually pretty feasibly for me. At the most I'll probably graduate with 100k debt, but even this is stretching it.</p>
<p>I would wholeheartedly recommend that you avoid leaving college with any debt at all--not to mention a whole $100k.</p>
<p>Let me put it this way...Most couples don't even make $100k combined in one year. Now I don't know what kind of field you plan to go into after college, but even as a Stanford graduate, I doubt you will be making enough to live comfortably, buy a house, etc., AND be paying off a whole $100k anytime soon. And don't forget that this is not just a lump sum. You will be paying interest for years to come.</p>
<p>Do you really want to be paying debts from your teen years when you are 60 years old? $5,000-$10,000 in debt is understandable (I would still avoid it either way), but $100,000 dollars is simply unthinkable.</p>
<p>^I second that. Even if you get a job at Goldman Sachs (for which you'd probably need further degrees, and thus more $$ into tuition), 100k bucks is a very very heavy load.</p>