Stanford or Yale?

College Search & Selection
1

Hi everyone! I was incredibly fortunate to be accepted into two great universities, Stanford and Yale. The deadline to decide is coming up, and I’m still very evenly split between the two. Here’s what I’ve observed of both schools:

-The residential college system at Yale is certainly unique, and I think I would be exposed to more diverse opinions and POVs this way. It also seems like it will be easier to make friends and maintain close relationships. On the other hand, Stanford’s residential life can be more stratified (as there are ethnic theme dorms, dorms known to be quieter, louder etc.). It also seems more difficult to make friends outside the dorm, partly due to the size of the campus.

-I love the West Coast culture, and the weather, modern style of architecture, and sunny days appeal to me greatly (I’m from the East Coast). I’m not huge on the Gothic buildings at Yale (including the traditional feel of the dorms and dining halls), and I’m kind of afraid that the winters will be depressing. I also don’t really care for the tradition that Ivy League schools tout, and I prefer casual dress.

-I’m hoping to study in the field of social sciences, but I’m not exactly sure what yet. I’m interested in subjects like history, psychology, econ, international relations, English, statistics, mathematics etc., but I’m not very interested in going into a pre-professional track. Instead, I think I may want to pursue academia and go into teaching (but of course, that’s all up in the open.) In my free time, I like to dabble in creative writing. I don’t care much for politics, music, or theater, which are also big at Yale. Yale has a more vibrant community for the humanities overall, but I’m also interested in interdisciplinary studies (i.e. bringing quantitative analysis into more humanities-based fields) which Stanford really seems to value.

-Quality of life is important to me, right under academics. I’ve visited both schools, and I like the food options and size/quality of dorms at Stanford more (suites at Yale are fine, but the typical college hallway living is more comfortable for me). I’d like to go out with friends every odd weekend. I’m not too sure if there is much to do in New Haven or Palo Alto necessarily, so I may want to explore the nearest cities (NYC/Boston and San Fran, respectively). As an East Coaster, exploring areas in the West seem more fresh and exciting to me. At the same time, living in a grittier place like New Haven would be a new experience too.

-I like to play sports recreationally, which is more convenient at Stanford due to the nice weather year-round, rather than use gym equipment. School spirit at Stanford seems more present due to the great athletics program, which I enjoy.

-In terms of advising, there seems to be more personalized attention at Yale, while it seems like I would have to make more of an initiative myself to seek out professors’ feedback and help. Making connections and networking in the fields I’m interested in (see above) could be easier at Yale? I’ve heard that the alumni network is stronger at Yale.

-Quarter system vs. semester system. I see the pros and cons in both. I like the idea of taking a greater variety of classes under the quarter system, but it can be a little stressful due to the fast-pace. The semester system seems more leisurely. However, this is pretty low on my ladder of concerns.

I would greatly appreciate if someone could weigh in their opinion based on the info above—which school sounds like a better fit? Thanks!

2

I think Yale puts more emphasis on Hum and SS, while Stanford has the edge in STEM. Except for Econ – Stanford is in the top handful of schools, even for undergrad, in Econ. That said, both are going to provide quality in anything they offer.

Yale also offers interdisciplinary programs (like Stanford)… and Yale gives you a week or two to try out classes before committing. (shopping period)

It sounds to me like you prefer the environment/weather of Stanford, the academic support of Yale, slight edge to Stanford for room types but to Yale for the social dynamics of res colleges, and edge to Stanford for sports scene. You’re not sure which city would be more fun.

So:

Stanford:

  • Environment
  • Sports vibe
  • Room type

Yale:

  • Support
  • Social vibe

I’d scour their course catalogs and plan your classes according to distribution requirements and academic calendars. (if you have three or four hours to spend. lol). Chances are that some classes will change, but at least for now you’d be able to see which class schedule seems cooler. That could give you a real sense of academic fit.

In terms of New Haven vs. Palo Alto, maybe check TripAdvisor and see which city offers more of the experiences you’re looking for. I know that New Haven is famous for great pizza, so if you are an aficionado, that might be worth something. I know almost nothing about Palo Alto other than that it is a Bay Area suburb which has hosted super bowls.

I’m not sure this helps you much – I think these schools are pretty even for you based on what you’ve said. Look hard at majors and classes, and try to figure out which city is cooler to you – maybe those two things will break the tie.

Either way, you’re going to a great school.

3

Stanford has one of the top history departments in the country so it’s not just STEM. Weather is way nicer and San Francisco is close enough to you.

4

Stanford is an excellent comprehensive university. A lot of people pay particular attention to its STEM programs because of its location and strong ties to current tech leaders, but Stanford has always been a leader in the humanities and social sciences, too - they have excellent departments, faculty, and research/scholarship in history, psychology, economics and English literature as well.

Also, I will add that politics is inherent in the study of history and international relations (and important in economics, too).

Pretty much every single one of your bullet points - with the exception of the first one about residential colleges and the last one about advising from professors - was something you liked more about Stanford. To me, it seems like you overall prefer Stanford except for a few things, which let me address here:

-There’s nothing wrong with having to take more initiative to seek out professors’ feedback and help. I’m not sure there’s even a significant difference between Yale and Stanford in that regard, but professors’ help doesn’t and shouldn’t just fall into your lap anywhere, even a nice LAC. Part of going to college is learning how to ask for what you need and shape the experience the way you want. The judgment should be about how available those faculty are and how responsive they are to your needs, not whether or not you actually have to initiate the connection yourself.

-Stanford’s residential life doesn’t sound more stratified; it sounds stratified in a different way, as a residential college system is in and of itself a form of stratification. Moreover, things like ethnically themed dorms or residence halls known to be quieter or louder don’t necessarily indicate that it’s hard to make friends across residence halls. In colleges without a residential college system, your dorm is just the place you live, and where you live becomes increasingly less important for making friends the longer you’re in college. Yale’s residential college system sounds like a wonderful experience and most Yalies seem to love it, so I wouldn’t discount it when it comes to making a choice. But I wouldn’t take Stanford’s more traditional setup as a sign that you’ll have a harder time making relationships or being exposed to more diverse opinions.

5

I can’t speak to the relative academics (both are great schools but I have no idea beyond that) but it sounds like you are drawn more to Stanford for quality of life. Lots of people in the Bay Area moved here for the same reason and the weather and natural beauty really do help with mood. Without a car in Palo Alto there are lots of little restaurants and shops on University Avenue and the Stanford Mall is great (a little high end on a student budget but still fun to walk around). CalTrain has a station right by campus so you can get down to San Jose or up to SF or points in between, or transfer to BART and go check out Berkeley. I guess the only caveat here is cost of housing. Does Stanford guarantee 4 years of on-campus housing? Look into that (don’t need to report back to me :wink: )… at least, figure out whether you’d have a sudden hit of super-expensive apartment living your last 2 years that you aren’t expecting.

6

Thank you so much for the responses! I really appreciate the breakdown, prezbucky, and I will definitely try to picture a class schedule at both schools and think some more about the surrounding environments.

7

juillet: I definitely recognize that politics is an important aspect of fields like IR and history-- I was just more referring to the idea of political activity and discussion outside of class (like through student groups and organizations). I come from a very apolitical family, so I haven’t formed many personal political opinions (which I felt many Yalies expressed when I visited). It’s not a problem for me, simply a different experience.

Hmm, perhaps I didn’t quite define stratified well, so I think you have a great point. My concern over this mainly stems from what my cousin has told me about his own experience. He was a Stanford undergrad many years ago, and he expressed that a residential college type of system could have been more beneficial to keep close friendships (as he only keeps in touch with a few of his Stanford friends after they all went off to different fields in different parts of the country.) Of course, I’m trying not to let his experience define my entire view of Stanford.

8

go with your gut… it’s all pointing to Stanford from what you wrote.

the big myth about Stanford is it’s all Stem. that is dead wrong.

Stanford ranks higher than Yale in most humanities and SS rankings fwiw.

as far as “vibe” Yale is traditional… Stanford thinks more like a startup.

9

Generically and observationally -

Yale has a deep Northeast embedded network and culture NY Boston Philly and DC. Strong ties in influential government foreign service and old line banking/finance. It’s the top dog on the country club circuit.

Stanford had those same advantages with the millennial generation. Across the broad landscape of tech. New innovation global industries and west coast industries. The average person/small business owner/recruiter hiring into important entry level positions and training programs would find them to be equally impressive.

Depending on specific major you would have minute advantages. Both will have the best instruction available on the planet. And grad school lift.

Yale is high end old school and full of tradition. Stanford is the new kid of the block with a modern approach to residential life and campus dynamics.

It’s Cali vs New England Not just in location but mind set. It’s a cultural difference. But anyone could succeed at either or both.

10

For further context: When I visited the campuses, I did find Yale to be a little more personal-feeling, as nearly every student I approached on the street (usually to ask for directions, haha) was very friendly and open.

Although I mentioned that I am an East Coaster, I think fundamentally, Yale would be a more “different” experience. I’ve visited Stanford many more times than Yale, and am more familiar with Stanford as a whole. I felt comfortable there (not sure if it was because I was living vicariously through my cousin’s experience there, or otherwise).

I like to think that I’m a very happy-go-lucky, chill person-- I don’t take myself too seriously outside of the classroom, though I am very hardworking in academics. At Yale, I found a more intellectual atmosphere that I haven’t really been exposed to before. The school kind of has a gravitas about it, perhaps due to the Ivy name? I am pretty sure I would be quite content at Stanford, but I’m wondering if I’m missing out on an opportunity to grow more, and in different ways, at Yale.

11

You mentioned that you like to go out with friends on the weekends. Along those lines, you should note that whereas Yale is located in the city of New Haven, Stanford is literally its own city; it even has its own zip code (94305) and dedicated post office on campus. Stanford is next to Palo Alto, but it takes about 1.5 miles down Palm Drive to get to University Ave (mentioned by the poster above) and also to Caltrain, which is the nearest public transportation to San Francisco. It then takes another hour or so on Caltrain to get to San Francisco. In my time at Stanford, I didn’t know a single person that did this. Therefore, Stanford students generally stay on campus during their time there, even on weekends. But Stanford does try to bring outside performers to campus.

As for the neighboring cities, New Haven and Palo Alto are quite different. Palo Alto is extremely wealthy, with the third highest median family income in the United States, where the median house costs $3.8 million. That does affect the college experience, so that Yale feels more urban and Stanford feels like a country club. Heck, Stanford has its own golf course and equestrian center, both on campus, as well as an aquatic center with four swimming pools (two of them being Olympic-sized). Different people like different things; just be aware that these differences exist, especially since you mentioned that a grittier place might be more appealing to you.

Academically, both are fine choices, although the social vibe is obviously different at the two schools.

12

@sbballer

In whose rankings does S rank higher than Y in most SS and humanities? Grad school rankings? Those cannot be used as proxies for undergrad quality or – more importantly – undergrad focus.

It is hard to find reliable undergrad program rankings in Hum and SS fields. Frankly I’d want to know which school had fewer grad students competing for profs’ time, which had smaller classes and easier access to those profs, which school had fewer classes/discussions/labs taught by TAs, etc.

But it’s more than that – it’s the priorities, initiative, focus of the school; you can’t put the same amount of energy and resources into everything. Yale has long been known for its quality in the humanities and social sciences, perhaps at the expense of the more pre-professional STEM programs.

Meanwhile, Stanford has long been known for STEM – in particular, CS and Engineering – greatness. A close third in terms of rep is its Econ program.

Both schools are very good at whatever they offer and both offer great faculties with plenty of support. But both do have relative strengths and weaknesses; they must.

13

Only you can answer that and nothing’s perfect in life. Both will be remarkable in their own ways. Everything you think you know will be replaced by a new and unique experience. You know the vibe of each. I would go to Yale but that advice is based on a lifetime of biases and opinions that are unique to me. No one can make this call. This is part of your growth and growing up.

Hey you can always put on the sweatshirt for each school, take two selfies and see which one feels right. :slight_smile:

14

they are grad school rankings from USNWR…

Stanford ranked higher in every humanities and social science category from my quick perusal…

proves the point that Stanford has a top humanities and arts program.

15

Stanford has approximately 1,500 more undergrad and 4.500 more student (total) population than Yale. I’m BIG on less undergrad population and larger resources for undergrad education when comparing institutions. This was a critical deciding factor when I was helping my son prioritizing his college choices, for which reason Stanford wasn’t our top choice. I don’t care what other folks say for or against my son’s choice of Princeton, but their focus on undergrad education AND experience is hard to beat. Stanford can wait when times comes for him to decide on which grad schools to look at. The thing that you need to remind yourself again and again in the decision process is that you’re going to an undergrad institution, not a brand, and what’s most important to you in terms of both the quality of your undergrad education you’ll receive and the undergrad experience you’re likely to have.

16

@stardustsilence - My daughter had to make this same exact choice last year. She is an interdisciplinary humanities kid that studies art history, medieval studies, is interested in the classics, etc., etc. Stanford

There were many things about Yale that interested her – Directed Studies, the residential college system, Yale’s Political Union, etc., etc. She applied SCEA and got in, fulling intending to enroll there. When she visited, however, she realized that she could not wrap her head around living in New Haven, so that complicated things. She did not expect to like Stanford (she anticipated that it would be too techie and too pre-professional, but happily has found that it is not). There were so many things about Stanford that made is feel right for her (quality of life was a biggie) and so many things about Yale that didn’t. She has never looked back and is absolutely certain she made the right choice.

Stanford has a number of interesting programs that satisfy many of the same intellectual and social things my D sought at Yale in equal measure (if not better). It offered these in what is, for her, a much better environment. Like Yale’s Directed Studies, Stanford has SLE – Structured Liberal Education – an intensive humanities core program (a sort of Western – and some Eastern – Civilization course). SLE has the advantage of having a living/learning set-up in which all of the classes take place in the residence and all of the 90 students participating in SLE live together among 3 small dorms. Discussions spill out of the classroom and into the dining hall and later into the lounge.

As for housing, what Yale’s residential colleges might have provided in theory (in practice, perhaps not so much as I explain below) my D is seeking to pre-assign to the special-interest housing and will have a built-in community there. (And yes, @washugrad, Stanford does guarantee four years of housing); over 92% of Stanford UGs live on campus, compared with 83% of Yale UG students. When you look at the rates of juniors and senior off-campus living at Yale, the numbers are staggering. A recent article in the Yale News says this: “The community within residential colleges is anemic at best. It’s no longer “cool” to live in your residential college as an upper-level student.” At Stanford, there is a lot of choice when it comes to housing – special interest or ethnic, cultural, or language-themed dorms.

My D’s biggest concern about Stanford was whether or not the humanities – an area where Yale has traditionally excelled – would be given short shrift at Stanford. They are not. As @juillet correctly points out, “Stanford has always been a leader in the humanities and social sciences, too - they have excellent departments, faculty, and research/scholarship in history, psychology, economics and English literature as well.” Add to that the arts and creative writing, art history, and the classics. While other schools are scrambling to shore up their STEM programs to compete with schools like Stanford, Stanford has been investing some real money into its arts and humanities programs over the course of the last decade. They also are ahead of the curve in creating a number of interdisciplinary programs.

As far as relationships with faculty go, the faculty could not be more supportive and available to undergraduate students. As a freshman, my D is into her second quarter of an independent study with one of her professors and was just offered a paid position doing research with another.

The weather thing goes without saying…CA has glorious weather. CT does not. Stanford is a much more self-contained campus with a suburban feel. Yale has a much more urban feel to its surroundings and the campus and city are interconnected. The architecture is a matter of taste; I think Stanford’s campus is gorgeous; some people say it looks like Taco Bell. Some people love neb-gothic, others do not. Both schools have easy access to larger cities. Both will have great alumni networks, lots of research and internship possibilities, etc.

As for quarter vs. semester thing, we like quarters more than we expected to – it’s as though students have a entire extra semester of classes (which they do!) with quarters. Right now, while everyone else’s kids coming out of Spring Break are heading into final exams and wrapping up their academic years, kids at Stanford have only just begun a new quarter…The main thing with quarters is you have to stay on top of the workload – it’s manageable, but there’s not a lot of time for procrastination and last-minute catch-up. The quarter system takes a bit of getting used to, but overall, I think it has way more upsides than downsides – what’s nice is that winter break and spring break really are breaks – no homework, papers, exams to think about during the time off.

Stanford is not for everyone – there are at least two people recently for whom I suggested Yale over Stanford – but it felt right for my daughter, and it sounds like it feels right for you.

I’m happy to answer any other questions you might have.

17

A lot of people pay particular attention to Stanford’s STEM programs and Yale’s humanities and social science programs because that’s what so many of their students are majoring in. For example, roughly twice as many Stanford students are majoring in CS as in all of the humanities.

Some figures from last year’s CDS…

STEM: 52% Stanford, 31% Yale
Humanities: 9% Stanford, 16% Yale
Social sciences: 20% Stanford, 39% Yale
Arts: 2.3% Stanford, 5% Yale

The remaining students majored in “interdisciplinary” fields, which are difficult to place within the framework above.

18

Stanford is a leader in interdisciplinary programs combining Stem and Humanities…

my hunch is there is a significant subgroup of students at Stanford that study humanities in this context under a “interdisciplinary field”

19

According to the Yale administration, the percent of upper-level students living off campus, after rising over a number of years, has now begun to decline, in part because last year the university opened two newly-constructed residential colleges with many modern conveniences so it could expand the undergraduate population by 15%. Students moving off campus has certainly been an issue of concern recently, because the residential college experience is one of Yale’s distinguishing features - but it’s important to understand how this came about.

Over the past 15 years, the university has invested a great deal in the city of New Haven, providing financial subsidies to Yale employees who buy homes in the city, building new graduate student housing, contributing to the local school system (significantly boosting high school graduation rates), contributing to local law enforcement (including building a new police station and activity center) and, most noticeably, snapping up scores of retail properties adjoining campus to rebuild and rent them to more desirable tenants. Take a walk down Broadway or Chapel Street, two of the main centers for retail and restaurants; nowadays it feels a lot like, for example, Harvard Square (and relative to what it was, say, ten years ago, it’s like night and day).

The result of all of this is that the city has had something of a renaissance and is far more attractive, livable and safe, with many more dining and nightlife options, than ever before. Crime has plummeted - according to the Yale administration, crimes against individuals (as disclosed in government statistics) are the second-lowest in the Ivy-Plus group of ten schools. In 2017, the city, which has a population of about 130,000, had just seven murders, none near campus or involving anyone from Yale. The outside world’s image of New Haven is far behind the current reality.

An unintended consequence of this, though, has been to encourage students to move off campus. Residential rents are low and the city is safe, so students who want to live with a variety of friends from other residential colleges (possibly in a frat), or don’t want to pay for the meal plan, or want to be able to host parties without interference, have a lot of options. It’s not feasible for Stanford students to live off campus in substantial numbers; the distances are too great and the rents are too high (the latter is also the case in Cambridge and Princeton), so it’s not an apples-to-apples comparison.

20

I don’t doubt the strength of the humanities/social science programs at Stanford-- I’m more concerned about whether there is a vibrant community for students who are studying in these fields to bond and interact. There is the whole stereotype of there being a techie vs. fuzzy divide at Stanford, which might have some grain of truth.

Does anyone know if Yale’s extracurriculars are very intense? (i.e. do arts groups all have auditions, do groups care if their members miss meetings etc.) I got the sense that many of the extracurricular activities at Stanford are more lowkey, and that there weren’t as many options (especially in the arts areas).