<p>I've been here waiting for my first earthquake for three months, and it hasn't happened.</p>
<p>They don't happen every three months, at least not the ones you get to impress your friends at home by talking about (assuming home isn't somewhere else in coastal California, or Japan). I would be surprised if you make it through an entire undergraduate degree without seeing the floor ripple a few times, though.</p>
<p>go to stanford for the weather, the attitude, the grad school connection, and the interdisciplinary focus.</p>
<p>stanford>>>>yale (sciences)</p>
<p>yale>stanford (humanities...slightly)</p>
<p>hmmm....new haven or palo alto...tough choice....</p>
<p>
[quote]
yale>stanford (humanities...slightly)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>For humanities? No. For the arts? Definitely.</p>
<p>I'm someone who is very interested in the arts and humanities. Although I'll also be applying to Yale for this reason, if I don't get in and end up mtriculating at Stanford, will I still love the arts scene there?</p>
<p>Just yesterday I watched a YouTube video detailing arts at Stanford and thought they were making progess... Is this true, kyledavid?</p>
<p>Stanford's faculty are more innovative, better known, and more distinguished than Yale's. Stanford people have played a critical role in nuturing modern technologies, more so than any other university in the world. Yale is no factor in this regard.</p>
<p>Stanford is better than Yale in sciences, including biology, computer science, chemistry, math, physics, and geoscience.</p>
<p>Stanford is better than Yale in social sciences, including psycology, economy, politics, and sociology.</p>
<p>Yale is better than Stanford in humanities, by an inch.</p>
<p>In terms of professional schools, Stanford is better in business school, medical school, education school, and engineering school. Yale is a little better in law school.</p>
<p>Overall, Stanford > Yale.</p>
<p>^^ At the undergraduate level, the academic programs don't make a difference when you're attending schools like HYPS.</p>
<p>Stanford's graduate sciences are the strongest around. It's social sciences are only a hair (if even that) better than Yale's (again at the graduate level). Humanities is where Yale has an edge.</p>
<p>Stanford's Medical school is not indisputably better than Yale's at all. The schools have very different philosophies and they're always neck-to-neck in the rankings (if those are even reliable).</p>
<p>Yale's Law School has an edge over Stanford's.</p>
<p>As for Professional Schools in general, it's interesting that you even include the education school, which Yale doesn't have, but you conveniently omit all of Yale's professional schools that Stanford lacks. If you want to go that route, then I must say that Yale wins over Stanford in Professional Schools:</p>
<p>Yale School of Architecture > Stanford's (nonexistent)</p>
<p>Yale School of Art > Stanford's (nonexistent)</p>
<p>Yale Divinity School > Stanford's (nonexistent)</p>
<p>Yale School of Drama > Stanford's (nonexistent)</p>
<p>Yale School of Engineering <<<< Stanford's</p>
<p>Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies > Stanford's (nonexistent)</p>
<p>Yale Law School > Stanford's</p>
<p>Yale School of Management < Stanford's</p>
<p>Yale School of Medicine =< Stanford's</p>
<p>Yale School of Nursing > Stanford's (nonexistent)</p>
<p>Yale School of Public Health > Stanford's (nonexistent)</p>
<p>Yale School of Sacred Music > Stanford's (nonexistent)</p>
<p>Yale School of Education (nonexistent) < Stanford's</p>
<p>(Note: These are all indeed separate, distinct professional schools; check out the yale.edu if you refuse to believe it.)</p>
<p>Have I made my point that comparing graduate and professional programs is petty and pointless, and even more so for the purposes of this thread?</p>
<p>I think rd31 basically just pwned his point: comparing graduate programs is silly! That said, it is worth noting that Yale is not just > Stanford in many of the schools mentioned; it is very strong. E.g. Architecture, Art, Drama, Music, Forestry, etc are all the best or possibly the best grad schools in their respective fields.</p>
<p>It is silly to compare this way. Check</p>
<p>[url=<a href="http://www.usnews.com/sections/rankings/%5DBest">http://www.usnews.com/sections/rankings/]Best</a> College Rankings, Best Graduate School Rankings, Best Hospitals, and Best Health Insurance Companies </p>
<p>rankings are overrated. and yet, we can't help but keep our eyes on them</p>
<p>ewho, US News fails to rank all types of graduate programs out there because not all universities share the same types of graduate programs. It's stupid to claim one school is an overall better university when all the universities are different! You can only say that one business school is better than another, or one law school is better than another, but not that an entire university is better than another (particularly at the HYPS level). That was my point.</p>
<p>It is very true, but you have to realize that a lot of people read usnews. It has more influence than what you and I say.</p>
<p>STANFORD without a doubt! :D!</p>
<p>
[quote]
^^ At the undergraduate level, the academic programs don't make a difference when you're attending schools like HYPS.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>People state this all over CC, but frankly, it’s complete BS. Some of the academic programs do make a difference, even at the undergrad level.</p>
<p>For example, linguistics—Stanford is clearly superior to HYP in this regard. In what ways? Stanford a) offers more courses in that area, b) offers a wider variety of courses, c) has more facilities for it (various labs, like a computational semantics lab, a spoken syntax lab, etc.), d) has more big-time faculty (Wasow, Sag, Bresnan, Jurafsky…), and e) attracts top grad students (some of whom I’m doing research with). None of this did I find at HYP (or at least in much smaller amounts). Stanford’s ranked high in this area for a reason.</p>
<p>This isn’t the only example (and of course it goes both ways). Some, I admit, won’t make a difference, though--like English.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Stanford's graduate sciences are the strongest around. It's social sciences are only a hair (if even that) better than Yale's (again at the graduate level). Humanities is where Yale has an edge.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It’s funny—you say that Stanford’s social sciences are “only a hair (if even that)” ahead of Yale, when in the NRC ranking Stanford is #2 whereas Yale is #6; but in humanities, Yale has “an edge,” when it’s ranked #6 and Stanford #7. Other rankings (like US News) support this.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yale's Law School has an edge over Stanford's.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Again, you don’t seem afraid to say “a hair”--Yale is #1, and Stanford is #2, tied with Harvard. Do you honestly think that Yale Law has an edge over Harvard Law and, by extension, Stanford Law? Come on…</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you want to go that route, then I must say that Yale wins over Stanford in Professional Schools:
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, it doesn’t--simply because Stanford doesn’t have a separate school for it doesn’t meant that Yale automatically “wins” in that area. Stanford has programs for many (or most) of those that you listed, but it doesn’t have an entire school devoted to each. Heck, many of Yale’s schools seem just plain superfluous--“Sacred Music”? Really now?</p>
<p>
[quote]
You can only say that one business school is better than another, or one law school is better than another, but not that an entire university is better than another (particularly at the HYPS level).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree with this.</p>
<p>Olive_Tree:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Just yesterday I watched a YouTube video detailing arts at Stanford and thought they were making progess... Is this true, kyledavid?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, it's very true. A big part of the Stanford Challenge (a $4.3 billion campaign) is to improve the arts at Stanford, i.e. make them more prominent. Currently, there's plenty to offer students who want to engage in the arts. See this:</p>
<p>UAL</a> - Creativity & the Arts</p>
<p>In particular, Stanford is making progress with these:</p>
<p>Stanford</a> University Arts Initiative
[url=<a href="http://ual.stanford.edu/OO/ai/overview.html%5DArts">http://ual.stanford.edu/OO/ai/overview.html]Arts</a> Intensive<a href="very%20new">/url</a></p>
<p>Thanks! It definitely looks promising.</p>
<p>A few grace notes:</p>
<p>I am very familiar with law school reputations, and am an alumnus of Stanford Law School. There is a big gap in prestige between Yale and Stanford, even if Yale is #1 and Stanford #2. And Stanford isn't really #2, it's fairly solidly #3, unless you happen to be in New York or maybe Virginia. (And, yes, there's a big gap between Yale and Harvard, too. It doesn't matter much to students -- Yale is so small that its students don't factor much in the job market.)</p>
<p>Linguistics: I heard a well-known senior linguistics professor counseling a college applicant a few months ago. She talked a lot (positively) about Yale and Cornell, and she didn't mention Stanford, although she knew the applicant was interested in Stanford. Maybe it was an oversight.</p>
<p>kyledavid80, you missed the entire point of my post. I was highlighting the ridiculousness of comparing "overall graduate strength." I even stated my purpose in the end for those who didn't catch my sarcasm.</p>
<p>Next time, read and absorb a post in its entirety before attacking it.</p>
<p>“For example, linguistics…”</p>
<p>I cannot talk much about the “linguistics” department – I’ll let JHS and others do that – but I think choosing your undergraduate based on departments is patently silly and goes against the premise of a liberal arts education.</p>
<p>“It’s funny—you say that Stanford’s social sciences are “only a hair (if even that)” ahead of Yale, when in the NRC ranking Stanford is #2 whereas Yale is #6; but in humanities, Yale has “an edge,” when it’s ranked #6 and Stanford #7. Other rankings (like US News) support this.”</p>
<p>First of all, both NRC and US News are GRADUATE school rankings and NRC does not do overall “social science” rankings (it ranks only individual grad departments once every 10 years or whatever). Moreover, in NRC Yale slightly beats Stanford in Poli Sci, History, etc while Stanford slightly wins in Econ etc so there is absolutely no clear winner.</p>
<p>“Again, you don’t seem afraid to say “a hair”--Yale is #1, and Stanford is #2, tied with Harvard. Do you honestly think that Yale Law has an edge over Harvard Law and, by extension, Stanford Law? Come on…”</p>
<p>I think graduate school stuff is silly. However, on this point you are just flat out wrong (and not just because of the rankings). Yale Law School has been THE law school over past half century or so. It has NEVER been #2 in US News rankings (if that means anything) and has produced a ridiculous number of scholars, senators, etc given its size. Ask any real lawyer and they will tell you Yale Law is known for being the best… for whatever that is worth….</p>
<p>“Stanford has programs for many (or most) of those that you listed, but it doesn’t have an entire school devoted to each. Heck, many of Yale’s schools seem just plain superfluous--“Sacred Music”? Really now?”</p>
<p>The above poster made an error: it is the “Yale University School of Music,” NOT “sacred music.” And, while it may seem “superfluous,” having a resource like the School of Music on campus means that budding musicians can interact with tons of music professionals playing in Carnegie etc and far more music staff etc than just having a department dedicated to music. The very best graduate schools versus just very good grad schools probably don’t affect the undergraduate level much at all but the existence vs nonexistence of a graduate school (i.e. just having a “department”) probably does influence the undergraduate level more significantly.</p>
<p>Bottom Line:</p>
<p>There is NO answer to this argument. Both Yale and Stanford are fantastic. If I wanted to be stupid, I could easily go by your rankings arguments and say that Yale is significantly better than Stanford because it got 98/100 on last year’s US News while Stanford got a 94. But the point is, rankings are DUMB (especially using grad school rankings at undergrad level)…</p>
<p>Trying to assert that you should go to Yale because its Law School is great or Stanford because its Engineering Grad School is great is STUPID. You should go to Stanford or Yale based on fit/culture, and you can receive a fantastic education in ANY subject at either institution, and you can attend great grad schools from either place.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Linguistics: I heard a well-known senior linguistics professor counseling a college applicant a few months ago. She talked a lot (positively) about Yale and Cornell, and she didn't mention Stanford, although she knew the applicant was interested in Stanford. Maybe it was an oversight.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Or, if she knew that the student was interested in Stanford, the assumption would be that the applicant has already looked into Stanford linguistics. Stanford is always top 10 (and often top 1-2) in linguistics.</p>
<p>
[quote]
kyledavid80, you missed the entire point of my post. I was highlighting the ridiculousness of comparing "overall graduate strength." I even stated my purpose in the end for those who didn't catch my sarcasm.</p>
<p>Next time, read and absorb a post in its entirety before attacking it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I read that, but thanks for the tip. (I thought I made pretty clear my point that comparing grad programs, even for undergrad, is not "petty and pointless," a position I have long held and argued for in other threads. I'll be a little more explicit next time.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
I cannot talk much about the “linguistics” department – I’ll let JHS and others do that – but I think choosing your undergraduate based on departments is patently silly and goes against the premise of a liberal arts education.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How in the world is it silly to follow your interests? Linguistics is a big interest of mine--I'd discovered the field early on and followed it heavily throughout high school, in my extracurriculars, my research, etc. And I chose in part based on departments--not rankings, but departments themselves and the opportunities they offer. And what do you know--my instinct was right, since I'm now at Stanford doing research with world-renowned professors in labs specifically tailored to my interests. I know I wouldn't've gotten this at Harvard, Yale, or Princeton (I looked).</p>
<p>
[quote]
First of all, both NRC and US News are GRADUATE school rankings and NRC does not do overall “social science” rankings (it ranks only individual grad departments once every 10 years or whatever).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>NRC</a> Rankings</p>
<p>
[quote]
Moreover, in NRC Yale slightly beats Stanford in Poli Sci, History, etc while Stanford slightly wins in Econ etc so there is absolutely no clear winner.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Stanford outranks Yale in all but two of the social science disciplines, FWIW. (I'll add, though, that either is excellent for social sciences--both are top 10.)</p>
<p>
[quote]
Yale Law School has been THE law school over past half century or so. It has NEVER been #2 in US News rankings (if that means anything) and has produced a ridiculous number of scholars, senators, etc given its size. Ask any real lawyer and they will tell you Yale Law is known for being the best… for whatever that is worth….
[/quote]
</p>
<p>IMO, Harvard Law School has as much of a claim to be "THE" law school as Yale does.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And, while it may seem “superfluous,” having a resource like the School of Music on campus means that budding musicians can interact with tons of music professionals playing in Carnegie
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I'm not saying it isn't valuable. I'm saying that you can offer the same or similar resources without having an entire school for it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The very best graduate schools versus just very good grad schools probably don’t affect the undergraduate level much at all but the existence vs nonexistence of a graduate school (i.e. just having a “department”) probably does influence the undergraduate level more significantly.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, it doesn't. Carnegie Mellon has a School of Computer Science, whereas Berkeley, Stanford, and MIT don't. Do you think that CMU is therefore "better" in undergrad CS? I don't--having CS in the School of Engineering (which I'm happy with) doesn't much affect me, at least.</p>
<p>
[quote]
especially using grad school rankings at undergrad level
[/quote]
</p>
<p>While I agree with the rest of that paragraph, I don't agree with that statement (for reasons discussed above).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Trying to assert that you should go to Yale because its Law School is great or Stanford because its Engineering Grad School is great is STUPID.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Agreed. I don't know why we started on the topic of professional schools, especially since Stanford and Yale don't offer most undergrad degrees there...</p>