Stanford is the new leader because of two reasons 1. It’s the only elite research university on the west coast (cal tech is too small to compete) thereby drawing by itself on a very large population. 2. It has decent weather. These two reasons will see Stanford dominate the HYP for a long time. All of these schools popularity are simply driven by population.
Princeton is a fine school… Princeton parents however:)
I sometimes get caught up a little bit in these A vs. B threads and if the focus is on fit, i am generally fine with that – unless I think a school is being misrepresented in terms of the fit variables.
When I hear peers being discussed and someone makes a sweeping statement like “A is better than B” it tends to tickle my trigger a bit. Ohhhh, reeeaaaalllly?! (hehe). That happened a little bit in this thread.
I realize it may sound like I don’t like Stanford. I want to assure everyone that I do.
I am very sensitive – well, CC-wise – to people putting down Princeton and Yale as if they no longer belong on the top shelf.
They are still top-10 overall as universities; as respectable as that is, I will acknowledge that Stanford, Harvard and (maybe) MIT have surpassed them a bit as total universities due mainly to those three schools’ expansive and top-rate grad programs, research output, etc. UChicago, Berkeley and Columbia are in the same neighborhood for their expansive all-level quality and diverse offerings as well. There’s nothing wrong with that; it’s proper.
What I bridle at is when people overlook the difference between overall U rep and undergraduate focus and quality. There, P and Y excel. I only hope to keep the focus on undergraduate quality and the overall undergrad experience, because that’s what the vast majority of kids on here are asking about.
“Hey guys, I’m off to a college. Which college is best for me?” (not a Master’s or PhD program; nor an MBA, med school, law school, etc.)
I don’t think we should lose sight of that and, thus, we should answer them with undergraduate program quality and experience in mind – and how they fit what the kids tell us about themselves – not grad/research-fed international hype.
You might be wondering, then, why I don’t put schools like Dartmouth and Brown – both with even more undergrads proportionally than P or Y – in this conversation. Well, I would if I felt they offered the same overall academic quality as HYPSM. The fact is, I don’t. And academic quality is very important to me when evaluating a school. However, if you’re discussing, say, Duke and Dartmouth, I certainly will be vocal about Dartmouth’s undergrad focus.
So:
- Stanford is great
- So is Princeton (and Yale, and Harv…)
- Focus on the undergraduate experience at both (all) and choose based on fit and finances.
@prezbucky - As always, a well-balanced contribution to CC. 
Thank you, sir.
It is hard to ignore the trickle down effect that the key top professional schools – Law, Medicine and Business — have on a school and the undergrad division.
Only Harvard and Stanford are top 3 in each.
Followed by , UChicago and Penn with two top 5 (UChicago in Bus and Law; Penn in Business and Medicine)
Yale is tops in arts and music. Columbia and UChicago are very much its peer and in some areas ahead of Yale, and not just in sciences. (E.g, – top English department is UChicago together with Berkeley. ) I am also not convinced at all that Yale has much more of an undergrad focus than Columbia, the “new” UChicago or Harvard. Princeton is a different story. Moreover, Yale has taken safe spaces and political correctness to the extremes of an Oberlin and Brown. This may appeal to some and not others.
I do agree that identifying the “best” is a silly endeavor. At these exalted levels, the intangibles, the gut feeling of where does student X feel more comfortable socially and otherwise are key.
@TiggerDad If you disagree with the opinions expressed just voice your reasons why without resorting to ad hominem attacks. This country had enough of that last year and I’m dismayed and sorry that my previous post brought me down to that level for which I apologize.
I repeat that it is not surprising to find enthusiastic alumni or otherwise supporters of a school on the school’s forum or in posts related to the school on other fora. I can’t tell you the number of Yale alumni who constantly rave about Yale’s Residential College system (and rightly so). I don’t find it “embarrassing behavior” or otherwise.
@Multiverse7 - Points well taken. Would you make the same comments to sbballer who’s been making ad hominem attacks? Your points would be more credible, then.
Close family’s son went to Harvard and graduated last year and was a speaker at graduation, rejected at Stanford his senior year. Awesome accomplishment, was valedictorian speaker at HS also. D had better stats but was rejected at Yale and waitlisted at Harvard. Accepted to Stanford and Columbia and bunch of other great schools. It basically comes down to the mood of the admit officer when they are reading the apps. Both friend’s son and my D are English majors.
Most people know that at the level these students are at the admissions officers are choosing from are the top 2-3% of all high school students. Basically they are fighting for the same students. What fits one student and family situation vs another shifts the perspective of what universities are the best.
Here in the West Coast only Harvard matches Stanford. All the other IVY schools are second tier, but Harvard is second best to Stanford for us because Stanford students have so much more open core requirements and the freedom to chose from a wide variety of classes. The restrictions placed upon the classes they can choose from their first year is minimal. From what I have gathered, talking with friend’s son, was that it is very structured at Harvard but very rewarding in terms of what he gained from the classes he was forced to take.
IMO. When the students are the cream of the crop and most if not all of them are really self motivated and they have proven themselves to be admitted to these awesome schools, the universities should be open, flexible and accommodating to them. Stanford has embraced that idea and that is the main reason they have overtaken the IVY so quickly, fifteen years ago we would not be having this conversation. UCB, Stanford, CalTech and Pomona were the top here and UCB was in the national conversation. From reading the changes happening at the IVY schools they are starting to emulate Stanford because they need to follow the leader and catch up or be left behind.
It is Harvard #1 and Stanford #1…the others are 3,4,5,6,7,8…but Stanford slowly moving ahead and the #1 here on the West Coast for sure. HYP will be #1 in the East Coast for some time to come but they can hear the footsteps of change from the other innovative schools here on the West Coast. Can’t stop progress.
@sbballer @tigger10 @Penn95 and everyone - peace. We’re all just trying to help others who need advice get the best advice they can.
I’m the college freshman here so I look to you all as adults to set the example and I will gladly follow.
They are all great schools and what’s right for one person may not be right for another. Hopefully, we can help guide people to find the right fit for themselves especially if they can’t visit before making a decision.
I love everything about Stanford but I’d be the first to admit that my sibling at Harvard belongs at Harvard and not Stanford.
And does it REALLY matter who is #1 or perceived as #1? I was all set to go to Yale last year turning down both Harvard and Stanford and their reputed higher standings because I felt I could do great things at Yale. It was only the Admit weekend at Stanford (that ended the day before decisions were due) that I changed my mind because of the weather and, more importantly, the incredible students and faculty I met. It just felt like a place where I would be more happy at, and consequently, most likely perform better. It had nothing to do with rankings.
Rankings change, people age and die. In the end, it seems to me we should focus on what the important things in life are and less on the superficial. Just my humble opinion.
@Multiverse7 - Can’t agree with you more. Well put. :)>-
Stanford is the only university that is top 3 in all disciplines.
engineering, law, business, medicine.
just some friendly trash talking:)
As a parent of a Princetonian and Stanford Cardinal, I have visited both campuses numerous times. Both schools have brought the best out of my DC, academically and otherwise. There’s no overall “best” school (a relative term depending on the categories) - just “different strokes for different folks.” It’s a great privilege to attend any of these elite colleges SPHYM, etc. with their tremendous caliber of faculty and student body, resources, facilities, opportunities, and networks.
@sbballer - don’t you have homework?
Maybe we can find (further) unification in appreciating how lucky we are, as Americans, to be home to so many great schools – not just these five, but the top 100+ universities and 100 LACs… at least.
There is such a variety of schools that, almost regardless of a kid’s academic talent and fit interests, any kid who wants to learn has multiple options that will fit him(-er). Sometimes there are cost issues, but the price pays for the quality (generally speaking, IMO).
We should all unite under our flag and shout “USA! USA!..” Maybe Stanford’s Olympic athletes and the kids at the academies could lead the cheer…
Stanford is also the only one that can field a football team that can routinely beat USC
Fear the Tree:)
Well, that settles it, right? Anyone whose choice of college is driven by whether the football team can beat USC, you know what to do.
^ I don’t think there is anything wrong with factoring in a football program when choosing a school. It shouldn’t be a deciding factor, but for those of us who love college football, it is understandable to have it as a factor.
Absolutely, everyone is entitled to choose a school base on what they are looking for. Be it the weather, the football team etc.