Starting over.Well,almost.....(loooong and not funny)

Parents Forum
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<p>not quite sure why this thread has me hook, line and sinker but anyway, </p>

<p>totally agree with Soozie on the EC's......on kids pursuing what they like.....if you can stomach one more maineparent story, </p>

<p>my S did a 4 wk pgm at Cambridge in England....btwn soph and junior yr... mandatory British Culture & History course....2 optionals... including History of Art, Architecture thru the Ages, Shakespeare, or just Romeo and Juliet, Physics (some years Stephen Hawking showed up for a lecture) etc etc.....awesome choices....</p>

<p>one of my S's choices was "British Intelligence and the Art of Espionage: Its influence on Operation and Strategy during WWII and the Cold War" ... the description started with a focus on the Battle of the Atlantic and the importance of cryptography, a visit to Bletchley Park, the code-breaking centre that made it possible to crack the Enigma cipher......but it included the "lives of two of the most famous British intelligence officers turned authors, Ian Fleming and Graham Green (The Orient Epress, the Third Man etc) will also be briefly reviewed......all I could see was that he was wasting his time on Bond, James Bond......when there were more legitimate things....I acquiesced and a potential career was born....</p>

<p>I was WRONG to doubt his interest......my S is a math kind of guy....this was right up his alley....they had some serious reading to do....and the following summer he did a cryptopgrahy project at SUMAC ...... so, who knew that this would make him stand out? with hindsight yes, but my thought was that he would stand out as a Bond fan, not a legit NSA prospect..... but, he was consistent and that matters.....</p>

<p>one of my favorite bookmarks, Curmudgeon, that I picked up for graduates back in June 2004, is a quote from Emerson:
"Make the most of yourself; for that is all there is of you."<br>
Go for real......works every time!</p>

<p>(And please know that I am aware that the opportunities and interests that I described working for my kid are not generally available for all kids... I have been fortunate to have a good job for a long time... and our kids are our top priority...we have been able to encourage their interests.... it is not intended as an obnoxious example, rather an example of right time, right place. The Cambridge letter came after a strong PSAT as a soph.....we laughed at first....and then I realized, why not? I have said on other threads that the trip gave him a love of history that was not at all evident beforehand.....activities and EC's that kids pursue cause they are curious, interested are often the best investment of their time)</p>

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<p>Oh God. An essay about 'Mudge. I'd pay to read that.</p>

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<p>We all have advice for Cur's daughter, so here's mine: if she does an essay about some aspect of her experiences with animals (goats, roosters, mountain lions, whatever), it should be very focal, very descriptive about one thing or experience...let the reader see, smell, feel and hear what ithat thing is really like. Give the total inside scoop..the good, the bad, the cute, the the ugly. Then share her feelings, or something about it that makes this all mean something to her. This will really help them know WHO she is. ---I know no one has asked for this advice, but I couldn't resist. Just to let you know where I'm coming from, my son wrote about taking the blood pressure of a rat.</p>

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<p>Perhaps we could write it together?</p>

<p>Prompt:</p>

<p>Tell us about a person who has influenced your development and made you the person you are today.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Perhaps we could write it together?

[/quote]
where is digmedia when we need him?</p>

<p>I guess we'll have to muddle through on our own.</p>

<p>Are we going with the Curmudgeon himself as our Most Unforgettable Character, or will it be Doris or Dinky?</p>

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<p>Oh this thread is so not seeing the point....I know, it is long, it has lots of feedback....but ....</p>

<p>The reason you want to have interesting EC's, a Hook that is something that money can't buy is not so that you have a unique list for your applications....</p>

<p>The reason you want these things is because of the person the child becomes having had these life experiences. </p>

<p>Who is this kid. Is this an interesting kid. Does this kid add flavor to our mix. Can this kid coherently tell us why that hook, that EC makes them compelling? Isn't that what goes on at some level in this process?</p>

<p>Forget random, forget unpredictable...</p>

<p>There is the SCIENCE of college admissions.
There is the ART of college admissions.</p>

<p>Art is not random. Art is not unpredictable. Art is interpretable and intangible, art is in the eye of the beholder, art is compelling, art is novel, art is honest.</p>

<p>The creation of the art doesn't start in the last year of high school, the creation of the art starts years before...the application is a proxy, albeit a key one, for a long and loving process. </p>

<p>Everyone's kid has a story. My kids...clearly flawed in the science department(not physics-all A's, just the 'science of admissions'). Too many B's...not top 10%-not great candidates for the schools they were right for. However, they absolutely soared in the art. Each of them is unique and has a story to tell. Every essay they crafted shared a slice or more of who they are. Every contact with a school adcom was infused with their humor and humanity. These were not crafted, these were genuine. Essays were risky, of the moment- the last 3 lines of son#1's essay were written in code. HIs point- the power of language and of the written word- seen by a kid whose growing years took place in a country whose language and culture he struggled to understand(two adcoms wrote to him to make sure they had broken the code correctly!! and begging him to come!!)</p>

<p>I have no idea where Mudge's daughter should go to school. I wasn't with her and didn;t have those 'in the car after the tour and info session' talks where the passions begin to reveal themselves. </p>

<p>I don't see any reason why her list has to change all that much because of one score or one new athletic achievement. Wasn't she a compellling kid before hand? If she is incrementally moreso now...take the schools she loved...go 5 or 10 places up the list...and add a similar school which is more competitive. Start from the beginning...oy.</p>

<p>Good thing I repented this week. Flare away.</p>

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<p>Also, I have to say I'm not really big on concerning oneself with the right prompt for the personal essay (unless a school requires choosing from specific ones). Sometimes those prompts can constrict your thinking/creativity. I say, find the topic that's most compelling and is the best way to grab the attention of the reader, while bringing your experience/yourself alive. Write the essay, and when its all done, see if it fits one of the prompts. If it doesn't, it's no problem for the Common Ap, (at least that's how it was last yr) , since you can pick the "topic of your choice".</p>

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<p>robrym makes an excellent point - there is absolutely no reason why a kid's list should change due to one new statistic on her dance card (which, btw, only confirms what dad and everyone else knew about her anyway).</p>

<p><em>However</em>, there has been a lot of agonized (I believe he himself might call it "twisted" ) thinking in my beloved curmudgeon's head. Through his extensive efforts in analysis-paralysis mode, he had literally or virtually "thrown out" an entire cadre of schools. The new data point, I believe, brought him to the Starting Over thought process.</p>

<p>Too much and too involved thinking may have derailed his and mudgling's list-making process. So he comes here - and what do we do? (Guilty as charged): we ratchet up the discussion to new heights of achievement in Analysis Paralysis.</p>

<p><em>But we are having fun doing it</em>. And, as you say, good feedback is contained herein. All we need to do is revisit robrym's post #266, penultimate paragraph, when we recognize ourselves to be on overload.</p>

<p>No flames here, robrym. Good point.</p>

<p>All curmudge and smudge need to do, imho, is allow themselves to allow her to go for it at those one or two or several (to enhance merit$ chances) schools she always wanted on her list but may have prematurely jettisoned n an effort to Face The Facts a little prematurely.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I don't see any reason why her list has to change all that much because of one score or one new athletic achievement. Wasn't she a compellling kid before hand?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I repented too ;), therefore, I am standing up next to roby and donning my flame retardant duds also. Roby, thanks for saying what I was thinking upon first reading this thread, but was too chicken to say. But it was kind of a good thing that I didn't...you said it better than I could have! :) ~berurah, who thinks that she has now read the first thing on this thread that makes any sense</p>

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<p>hmmmm...I dunno. cur has done a good job of not throwng all mudgella's apples into one basket. He's kept himself from dreaming about winning the lottery. They've visited schools that are done deals. mudgella needs a big merit bonanza to go out of state to the lands of fewer Texans. she's lined up her sights very carefully from what I have read.</p>

<p>This super score does ratchet the possibilities for merit aid. Statistically. </p>

<p>I agree that it does not affect ECs. ECs she already had coming out of her ears. Anyway, I am sure the one unmentionable 'EC' cur would add would be Full Pay. Would he, could he.</p>

<p>These ACT numbers make it easier for prestigious schools with extended neuro programs to give her a whopping great merit pressie--something along the lines of what b's son got--or kdos's son. That's what this thread is about.</p>

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<p>okay, so... goats are puppies, but they're not deer?</p>

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<p>


By jove, I do believe she's got it! </p>

<p>None of my posts ever suggested that I was throwing away the matches and safeties we have meticulously researched. The title of the thread says it ("Well, almost....") . I never suggested one score changed anything about her or her abilities, though it would be foolish to think this changed score doesn't enhance her chances for admissions and merit aid. And whoever thinks my D would ever have chosen or changed her hobbies or EC's late in high school for resume effect just plain ol' hasn't been paying much attention or has some other motivation.</p>

<p>I'm not offended because I don't think anyone intended to be offensive. Still, I would hope people would read a bit more carefully before jumping to unfavorable conclusions although I realize it is very tempting when someone appears to be bragging. If that is how I came off, I apologize. It was not my intent. I was asking for help, and I received it. Thank you all. </p>

<p>Moving on. Hopefully, anyway. LOL. It appears that D will drop one or possibly two merit safeties, leaving only one merit, guaranteed safety. Probably unnecessary to have three even for gloom and doom me (and we still have auto admit/auto scholarship to state school to keep me comfortable on my darkest , heavy gravity days). She will keep her 2 merit matches and her two merit reaches. It is my belief that she will choosing between two of these 4 schools in the spring. She will keep her one super-reach, we need a "drunken sailor" FA review need-only school and add two more like it of similar selectivity. And she will add back in two reach schools where the chances of her receiving merit aid are roughly the same as a 27" Sony Trinitron appearing from a blackhole.</p>

<p>That's ten. 4 merit with realistic to guaranteed chances-3 merit with a snowball's chance-3 generous 100% of need need only schools that are unlikely to return numbers we can pay. Look's good to me. We have as of now 13 schools vying for the 4 new spots. The leaders for the nearly created slots are Kenyon and WashU on the merit side, and Amherst and Carleton on the need only. The votes aren't all counted, lots of hanging chads.</p>

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<p>


I hope I've done some good things for my kid through this process . I know I've done some bad things. Sometimes it seems I can make people angry just minding my own business. But not even I would be foolish enough to knowingly allow the Curmudgeon essay to happen.;)</p>

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<p>Cur, I bounce around on CC regularly, but I don't always keep track of the details of what's going on with each student. To be honest, I have enough trouble keeping track of my own little troublemakers. So I've lost track of the specific schools you've mentioned over time, although you are now naming Carleton and Amherst. </p>

<p>Before moving to the northeast, we spent quite a few years in the twin cities area, and visited Carleton. We also knew families who had kids attend school there. It's a wonderful school, and I believe it has a high rate of graduates applying to grad school. The midwest was a wonderful place to live (coming from a native Californian!) and I think little C would find the contrast to Texas to be very interesting. Amherst is simply a wonderful choice. And I know that you have carefully thought through all the other schools, and logically spread your bets. </p>

<p>But I just have to say what I think other people may also be thinking. How about a top 10 University on her list? I know you probably hate to add any schools, but if you're going to at least consider need-only schools, why not an Ivy? I don't want to turn this thread into yet another "are Ivy's worth it" discussion, but this girl has something special to offer. I think I've told you that I was all set for the in-state or merit only approach, but my S's experience so far has told me that I'd greatly regret not allowing him to have his Ivy experience. A good student can get a good education anywhere, but you only get your first bachelor's degree once. And it's the peer group that makes such a difference. The kids on my son's floor come from all over the country, and even the world, and you can hear German, Russian, Chinese and other languages just while walking to the shower. So, I guess I'm saying that I think your daughter should include at least one Ivy/highly selective U. You've been so smart about covering all your bases, but I would love to see her apply to Dartmouth or Cornell or one of the others. Can you imagine what a shock she'd be to kids at Columbia?</p>

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<p>OK SBMom, let's see if I have this right. Goats are puppies, puppies are not deer, so, therefore, deer are not puppies???!!!</p>

<p>Mudge, from the outset, I wondered if your/mudgeD's list was a bit too restrictive re: permitting her to apply ONLY to schools which you thought were financially safe for you. I frankly think there is nothing wrong with allowing kids to apply for combined financial/statistically reach schools PROVIDED a) the child doesn't ONLY apply to schools of this nature; b) the child doesn't apply ED to these schools (and, therefore, be bound to attend); and c) the child and/or parents don't invest their identity and emotions in attending those schools should they be accepted and not be able to attend due to financial reasons (and therefore be frustrated and crushed).</p>

<p>I think the readers should recognize that there were TWO changes in your situation that prompted consideration of these most selective schools: 1) Your D's standardized test score on a test which was more suited to her abilities jumped into HYPSM range AND 2) you discovered (upon reconsideration) that you are eligible for MORE financial aid at need-only aid schools than you originally expected. You NEVER intimated that you or your D would alter anything about her profile to suit these schools, and I think some of the posters were out of line on this one. I think the take home points for CC readers are:</p>

<p>1) If your kid doesn't score as well on one of the standardized tests as you thought they might knowing other info about your child, then suggest they take the other. You can help them figure this out ahead of time by having them take a practice test at home in both the SAT and the ACT BEFORE choosing which test to take when it counts.</p>

<p>2) Really look carefully at SEVERAL financial aid calculators, or at least at the calculators associated with the reach school your child is interested in attending BEFORE restricting their college list. NOT allowing your child to look at schools they realistically might be able to attend can communicate to your child that you think they are not worthy of attending those schools.</p>

<p>3) STILL include at least one financial AND statistical safety on the list of schools.</p>

<p>Again, congrats to MudgeD.</p>

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<p>I missed the posts that suggested changing mudgella's profile to fit a school???? I think the content of some of the posts were specific to smudge while some of the content were generic for futures for others... I do not think anyone intended to imply that C's D revisit who she is, there was a simple question about how best to package it...... if they did think there was a suggestion to alter who she was then I missed it..... (hopefully no one thought I intended that)</p>

<p>and guiltguru was correct, there were 2 new variables, new score for mudgette and new financial aid score for cur..... </p>

<p>I have thought more about what has made this thread so intriguing or compelling..... the conclusion I have reached is that Curmudgeon and us vicariously, are at that stage where the raising of the child is "almost" finished and the possibilities are endless...... sooo many schools, so little time ..... at this point, it is still fun to consider all the paths open to his daughter..... once the final list is in place, the apps are in, then we all move to the stage of waiting for answers.... now the feelings are one of "will they want my child?" this person we have cherished for 18 years......will others see what we know? I hated the waiting phase......I loved the imagining phase..... again, this is the parents forum, so I am speaking as a parent who believes my kids are capable of much, not everything, but definitely capable of things if they put their mind to it... perhaps that is what admin officers also see from the package that an application is.... "has this child demonstrated curiosity, focus, intensity, responsibility, fun, joy?" Once the acceptances are in, the stage moves to more specific imagining of what paths can be available (ie JHU or Duke) and when final commitment is made, then the real path is chosen and we know where our kids will be for the next 4 yrs..... (is there anyone else who understands what I am saying?) </p>

<p>I do know that I have a visceral reaction to the naked parental posts/threads where the parent is candid about their feelings/worries/aspirations etc..... obviously I am not alone 275 posts later....</p>

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<p>maineparent, you said it well. This is an extremely emotional point for parents and children. It's the intersection of two of our most powerful anxieties -- fear of separation and fear of rejection. A perfect storm of optimism and pessimism.</p>

<p>I'm trying to remember what Larry Summers said about Harvard admits -- something about having the right combination of brains, talent and luck. I thought a lot about that when I visited my son last week.</p>

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<p>maineparent - you have summed it nicely several times along the way of this serpentine thread. Just wanted you to know someone noticed.</p>

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<p>I'm so happy to wake up this morning and greet the day with fellow travelers having posted. Maybe it is something in my writing style or lack thereof that makes some of you seem like you are reading my mind better than I am. Or at least expressing it better than I can.</p>

<p>So, I will transfer this section later to ek4's "thankful thread" in the P cafe'. I am thankful for those who read (Maineparent's word choice is just wonderful here) this particular "naked" (LOL) traveler's thread with your generous and insightful ears. I have learned some and have been entertained a lot, but mostly I have been given some comfort and reassurance that some realize that I'm doing my best at something for which I'm obviously not very well suited nor equipped.</p>

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<p>Because you have been so naked, we have all taken propriatary interest in your D. (Witness how no one can let go of their own special pet name for Mini Mudge!)</p>