<p>Yes, us W&M alums keep our pride more contained than our UVa counterparts! </p>
<p>As far as the flagship label, not a soul in the commonwealth would argue that UVa and W&M are pretty much on equal footing regarding student caliber (although contrary to popular belief, it is tougher to gain admittance to W&M); the larger, more athletically televised school usually carries that title. However, seeing how W&M was 132 years young when UVa first opened its doors, it's a tough call.</p>
<p>Any school that closes is no longer a school. W&M closed for several years in the later 1800's so it is really just around 130 years old.</p>
<p>It's kind of hard to define exactly what a flagship school is, but for the most part it is:</p>
<ul>
<li>Public</li>
<li>Large (at least 15,000 ug)</li>
<li>Fairly selective, especially out of state</li>
<li>It's usually the school where the average in-state student aims to get in/attend and the school where the above average in-state student puts as his/her "if I don't make Stanford, Harvard, Tufts, Rice, etc" school</li>
</ul>
<p>In some states, it's obvious:
NJ: Rutgers...no other public is large enough to qualify, really...</p>
<p>Most states, it can be identified as University of (fill in State) even if that's not really its name:
University of Virginia
UNC is really UNC-Chapel Hill, but if you say UNC it's not like anyone thinks you mean UNC-Wilmington
U of Wyoming: actually the only university, public or private, in the state, to my knowledge</p>
<p>In some states, however, it is not as clear:</p>
<p>Ohio: University of Ohio is a distant third public. The top two are Ohio State and Miami. Which do you think is the flagship school? Miami is more historic and (I believe) harder to get in, but Ohio is more well-known and bigger.</p>
<p>New York: does it have one? Albany? Binghamton? Buffalo?
Indiana: Purdue or IU?
Florida or Florida State?
Alabama or Auburn?</p>
<p>There has been a thread on this before, with lots of back-and-forth about the definitions. In fact, I'll merge your question into the earlier thread.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Debatable:
Oklahoma - Oklahoma State
Arizona - Arizona State
UNC - NCSU
[/quote]
</p>
<p>UNC is definitely the flagship.</p>
<p>New York does not have a flagship. Not a criticism, just a fact. SUNY Binghamton is the hardest of the four year universities to get into (unless you count SUNY at Cornell) but it is not a flagship.</p>
<p>Most schools with the word "State" in the middle were originally designated by the government as "land grant" institutions with responsibilities for agriculture and practical subjects - possibly engineering. Those with "University of..." were generally started for liberal arts type subjects and hard sciences and today are generally considered "research" universities.</p>
<p>If you want to study agriculture in Iowa or Michigan you go to Iowa State or Michigan State, not the University of Iowa or University of Michigan. Some schools like Penn State University are known for all types of subjects (This school used to be called Pennsylvania College). Rutgers College, founded in 1776, was designated the "land grant" college for New Jersey (beating out Princeton) in the 1860's and only became "Rutgers, the State University of New Jersey" in 1956. Like Penn State, it has all types of subjects and is a research university.</p>
<p>So...I would say whichever school is considered the "research university" in a state is also considered the "Flagship" university. The other major name brand is probably a "land grant" university.</p>
<p>^TourGuide, in fact Michigan State is, indeed, considered a co-flagship by most academic observers. The Green Guide, which labeled such flagships "Public Ivies" did just that... I'd say U-M's engineering school are better, but not as demonstrably as you make it sound. Also, you might want to throw in MSU's high quality B-school, J-School/Comm Arts and certain other elite programs like Nuclear physics (indeed, all over MSU's physics program is way above avg), Music School, Hotel School, International relations, political science, etc...</p>
<p>And btw Alexandre, I wouldn't consider William & Mary a flagship. It's an odd-ball, neither fish nor foul. It's certainly an elite school nationally, but it's more an LAC -- indeed, that was its heritage until, I believe, after the Civil War, when the school was broke and the State of VA stepped in. Miami U of Ohio, is somewhat similar to W&M, though considerably larger and historically, always publicly funded... A flagship school isn't always the most elite school, academic-wise in the State, otherwise, such schools as New College would be flagship. It's the largest along w/ being a major research and one of the most prestigious in the State... But size isn't always a guide either... Take the U. of Cincinnati. It's a school over 35,000 but, yet, it's not prestigious enough to compete with OSU, which is an AAU school as well as being a Big 10 school (which are ALL AAU schools).</p>
<p>Thanks, tokenadult.</p>
<p>So...
Miami OH or OSU?</p>
<p>Purdue or Indiana?</p>
<p>'Bama or Auburn?</p>
<p>If you had to pick one?</p>
<p>UVirginia is the Flagship for the state but W&M is the crown jewel. Only by a fluke of history is it public in the first place. It is public in cost only. Prestige,history,academics is on par with the best privates colleges. Virginia residents are so very lucky.</p>
<p>I'm glad the discussion has resumed. It's interesting to see the different implicit definitions of "flagship" used here, and the statement that some states may not have a flagship university by any commonly accepted definition.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Any school that closes is no longer a school. W&M closed for several years in the later 1800's so it is really just around 130 years old.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>and France is only 60 years old, from the last time they kicked the Germans out?</p>
<p>Not really the same thing. A school is essentially a corporation and when it closes it is dead. The replacement may take the same name but is it the same entity. Not in this case as a new charter was granted.</p>
<p>"In 1888, William & Mary resumed operations under a substitute charter when the Commonwealth of Virginia passed an act[20] appropriating $10,000 to support the College as a state teacher-training institution. Lyon Gardiner Tyler (son of US President and alumnus John Tyler) became the 17th president of the College following President Ewell's retirement. Tyler, along with 18th president J.A.C. Chandler, expanded the College into a modern institution. Then, in March of 1906 the General Assembly passed an act taking over the grounds of the colonial institution, and it has remained publicly-supported ever since"</p>
<p>I would consider Michigan State to be the real state flagship university at Michigan. They have the higher enrollment, and it is the school that takes most of the typical students of the state. Michigan does not have the characteristics of a typical "state flagship" with it's selectivity, rather Michigan is where the "nerds" go to school.</p>
<p>I saw an interesting report by Education Trust </p>
<p>on the role of state flagship universities in providing educational opportunity to low-income, high-ability students.</p>
<p>Ohio State - Columbus vs. Miami (Ohio) - Oxford</p>
<p>Aside from the fact that 'Miami of Ohio' is known as a smaller institution filled with preppy kids, The Ohio State University has excelled Miami of Ohio in almost every categories in terms of quality of overall faculties, facilities, endowment, resources, acceptance rate, top 10% freshman, mid 50% SAT/ACT scores, USNWR PA score & Overall ranking. The gap between the two institutions has since widen even more in recent years with the establishment of the 10-yr Academic Plan & the returned of the renown Ohio State University President - E. Gordon Gee.</p>
<p>I read the Education Trust report. Great example of lying with statisitcs. How many of the high-achieving minority students selected an HBCU over more highly regarded schools. What is the relative educational importance to the state of retaining high level students in their state vs sending them off to an elite school never to return? Are there really that many high ability minority students to go around? Wisconsin's own data shows no.</p>
<p>Sounds like some folks are making things up out of whole cloth in this thread. For example, Michigan State University's biological sciences programs are excellent and well funded.</p>
<p>Um, barrons, wasn't the report also mentioning low-income students, a category not mentioned in the Pipeline Update document you kindly cite?</p>
<p>Well, if you can't do it with all levels of income you sure can't get far with only low income. Just the all income level numbers showed how few made the grade for UW--even at the lower end of the scale let alone the average of all students.</p>