<p>I have been reading the posts here, and my situation is similiar…here it is.
My girlfriend and I are wanting to get married. She has a son that has qualified for quite a bit of FAFSA money because of her finincial situation. I make a decent income and have quite a few financial assets. We met with a college planner who told us that MY money would negate her son’s FAFSA aid. I have been researching, and this looks true. Here’s the stiuation though. We live in seperate homes, and plan on continuing that for at least 2 more years because my daughter (16 yrs old) spends half her time with me, and we just thought it would be better to wait till she gets out of high school to “combine families”. I thought this would be a loop hole, but the college planner said it wouldn’t, we would still have to provide my income and assets on the FAFSA form. From the research I have done, it looks like it possibley could be a loophole. We have NEVER lived together. We both have seperate homes (we both own our own home). It appears that “seperation” constitutes the same thing as divorce for FAFSA guidlines. If we were to marry, then “informally seperate” or even “legally seperate” if we have to (we are able to show that we don’t live together by providing seperate bills, addresses, bank accounts, etc.) Wouldn’t that qualify under FAFSA guidlines? If it did, we would plan on living seperately until her son graduates college. The college he has been accepted at is a FAFSA only school, not a higher profile school that would have different requirements.
I need to add, that because of our religious convictions, living together “in sin” isn’t an option.
We don’t want to “scam” anyone. It just seems that this is a legitamate situation. I am 52 and she is almost 50, so age comes into play, in the sense of waiting till her son is out of college. I am willing to pay for her son’s college, but she won’t let that be an option. She can’t afford to pay for it, and doesn’t want her son to have to have years of paying off loans. Is this a stragety that would work? That’s my question.</p>
<p>Good question. One of a couple who is “divorced” by FAFSA and IRS definitions (6+ months of living apart in the previous year, more or less) is a single parent whether they are legally separated or divorced or not. But in that case the presumed intention is not to get together at some point in the future, it’s to eventually divorce.</p>
<p>I feel like it’s a tough case to make if you get married and then immediately claim to be separated.</p>
<p>I would not get married, particularly if you plan to continue to live in separate households. If that’s the case, you aren’t planning on “living in sin” anyway, right? Unless there is some other financial reason, I wouldn’t do it until the kids are out of school.</p>
<p>Don’t get married. As long as you’re not married, you are not doing anything wrong, by school/FAFSA standards. The Federal folks are very clear (I’ve asked them!) that as long as there is no marriage, they don’t think that you’re dodging anything – it’s just that unmarried people, even those who live together and share resources – can just “walk away” so their finances aren’t counted on the FAFSA. </p>
<p>If you get married and then try to claim separation, that’s when you end up playing the Feds. That’s the sort of stuff that can be seen as being dishonest, untruthful, “gaming the system” or whatever. </p>
<p>I understand that you have religious reservations. If you’re not already “engaged”, you should be. The other thing you could do is look at the savings of combining homes. If you were going to marry tomorrow and live together, would the savings be larger than the separate homes unmarried FAFSA savings? Perhaps you could make that argument to your fiancee?</p>
<p>This is a scam, no way around it. You’d be married, presumably so that you can have sexual relations within marriage, while “pretending” to be separated for FA reasons. That is fraud.</p>
<p>Either don’t get married, or pay for college.</p>
<p>JayHanna -</p>
<p>I’m with mom2collegekids on this. However, having a religious marriage without signing the civil documents just yet could be an option worth considering.</p>
<p>Do remember that once you are legally married, your wife’s finances will also come into play when your daughter heads to college. Perhaps the two of you need to re-visit the financial planner, and discuss that as well.</p>
<p>An old thread here. But the questions and answers remain. Financial aid is based on whether you are legally married or not. You can have whatever religious, commitment ceremony that yo want, but unless you are in a common law state, you aren’t married with out going through the appropriate paperwork. </p>
<p>As I said in my older post, there is a price for being marriage tax wise as well. When you marry, your estate planning needs to be redone. Your assets go 2/3 to the spouse unless you have a prenup. You really have to rearrange a lot of financial thing, particularly in a marriage later in life with children involved. When DH and I married, we had nothing to split that was worth writing down. Now with kids and the years, it’s a whole other story. </p>
<p>If it is truly going to make a big difference in potential financial aid awards, that is the way to go. Be very much aware, in fact, do talk to an attorney to go over what protections you are losing by not marrying. It’s not a one way street. There are many loopholes where one can make out on something but there are always the risks that go with it. Do you have health insurance issues, for example, pension issues that are at stake? It’s not always that easy.</p>
<p>I’ve seen some families, not many, but have seen it, go through a lot of contortions in order for their kids to get subsidization of Staffords and a couple thousand bucks. What they lost in other areas, and the dollar value of the risk that was taken, I have no idea.</p>
<p>Thanks for your repies. To clarify, when I say not living together, as in “living in sin” I mean having no sexual relations of any kind without being married. If it were as simple as “not getting married” but still being free to engage in sex, then I would see “not getting married” as an option. As it stands now, my girlfriend’s son, who has NEVER lived with me, and is 18, will get a sizable amount of financial aid due to the fact that my girlfriend’s ex husband spent (credit cards and several other bad financial decisions) his way into bankruptcy, lives with his parents, and every step of the way through the divorce, screwed her. He pays NO support, or alimony. My girlfriend is already paying back loans for her daughter with no help from him. He will not be paying a penny for his son’s college. My girlfriend was forced into declaring bankruptcy because when he filed, (after the divorce) the creditors came after her as the accounts had been joint accounts. He basically promised her he wouldn’t file for bankruptcy to get some concessions in the divorce, one was that he wasn’t responsible for his daughters college loans, which, by the way, aren’t included in bankruptcy. Shortly after the divorce, he filed…now she is having to file. The ONLY silver lining for her was that because of their financial situation, at least she was going to get some substantial help for her son’s college.
Now that we both want to get married, because of my financial situation, her son won’t be eligable for any, or very little help IF they factor in my finances. This is not acceptable to her. She doesn’t want me to pay for her son’s college, even though I said I would. (she actually wants us to keep our finances totally seperate as well and wants to sign a pre-nup, protecting my assets and credit score…all her idea) Neither does she want her son or herself to be strapped with loans out the wazoo when he WAS eligable for the grants. This was my only solution…to marry, thus satisifying our “moral” standard, and then “seperate” to satisify the FASFA requirements of my finances not being a part of the equation. We are ALREADY planning on NOT combining households for various reasons, so looking at the savings of combined households offsetting college is not an option.</p>
<p>I don’t see a viable loophole here, especially for a person who places a high value on morality. I think the separation for FAFSA would be a lie in spirit, and arguably in fact as well.</p>
<p>Part of the marriage deal, IMO, is setting off on life’s path with another, combining households, lives, legacies, becoming one if you will. Perhaps finances can be kept separate in some ways but legally they won’t be even with a pre-nup in some cases. A pre-nup is really a document designed for divorce, so I’m not getting the religious or moral view that allows that without allowing, um, sexual relations between unmarried folks. It sounds like you wouldn’t really be married anyway.</p>
<p>Schools don’t care about pre-nups.</p>
<p>And if you have sexual relations while pretending to be “separated” then you’re essentially lying about being separated.</p>
<p>The concept of separation does NOT just mean living in sep residences. Many married people must do that for job reasons, but they’re NOT separated for FAFSA purposes or any other purpose. They are married, no matter how they handle their finances.</p>
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<p>^ exactly.</p>
<p>If you are separated for tax purposes and file your taxes as such, you can do the same for FAFSA. There are financial pluses and minuses to being married. Most of us in household over the certain tax breakpoints where deductions are phased out, would do a heck of a lot better tax wise by being separated rather than married and strategically splitting up dependents, income, expenses etc. Never mind FAFSA and college, just on a tax basis, it would make tens of thousands of dollars of difference. </p>
<p>For college purposes, it won’t make a tremendous amount of difference for most people. Unless one party is so low income that s/he is eligilble for PELL (and that is about a $5K max), or lives in a state that has some generous allowance for lower income families, or the student is applying to schools that meet full need. the difference is often just getting the Stafford subsidy or not. The tax implication of marriage can be far more hard hitting. </p>
<p>When my son was being treated for leukemia, there were those who could not marry due to loss of Medicaid or other low income health insurance/benefits and some who decided to marry because one person had really good health insurance. These kind of decisions hit all sorts of situations, not just college.</p>
<p>As for the morality, that is a private matter.</p>
<p>If you are separated for tax purposes and file your taxes as such, you can do the same for FAFSA</p>
<p>Cpt…he can’t do this. Pretending to be separated because they have two residences, is not acceptable for FAFSA…otherwise everyone would do that. There are a bunch of single income families that would just claim to be separated by saying that zero income wife with child custody lives with the grandparents.</p>
<p>The concept of separation doesn’t extend to just having 2 residences. I have 2 residences. I can’t just claim that I’m separated if I decide to live in the other home for reasons other than REALLY being separated. Pretending to be separated, but still having little “meet ups” with the spouse is just plain fraud.</p>
<p>Sigh. It can be such a gray area. I have a friend who has had an “on again, off again” relationship with her husband for 30 years. At this point, neither of them want to bother with the expense of a divorce as neither have any intentions of remarrying. They have separate residences, but “cozy” up at intervals, sometimes long stretches. They have been filing taxes as separated for a very long time, and their kids have gone through college on financial aid, so filed. The reasons for their separations have not been for tax and aid purposes,. </p>
<p>Anyone wanting to tread on that territory does so at his/her own risks, and there are definite risks involved in living that way. There is good reason for the institution of marriage.</p>
<p>So the religious convictions don’t allow living in sin or sexual relations outside of marriage, but do allow deception for financial benefit you are not legally entitled to. Interesting moral/religious disconnect. Whenever I forget why I hate religion, something like this reminds me.</p>
<p>Now I need to abide by the “if you can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all” mantra because this type of hypocrisy really really annoys me.</p>
<p>Speaking as an ordained pastor, I don’t know too many clergy who would “marry” a couple who does not have a marriage license. I have blessed same-gender couples who CANNOT legally marry, but a couple that legally can but chooses not to is a whole different matter, especially considering the traditional “better/worse, richer/poorer” lines.</p>
<p>* I have a friend who has had an “on again, off again” relationship with her husband for 30 years*</p>
<p>yes, I realize that some unstable/rocky marriages may have serial separations because the couple simply can’t live together without nearly killing each other…so they separate for awhile, and then try again and again to live together. That’s not what the OP’s situation is. The OP and his future wife fully intend on considering themselves married for nearly all purposes but for FA.</p>
<p>So the religious convictions don’t allow living in sin or sexual relations outside of marriage, but do allow deception for financial benefit you are not legally entitled to. Interesting moral/religious disconnect. Whenever I forget why I hate religion, something like this reminds me.</p>
<p>Yes, it is a disconnect. But, swimcat, this has NOTHING to do with religion. No religion would advocate what the OP is considering. The OP is choosing to use a cafeteria-style of morals/ethics.</p>
<p>First of all, I want to thank and apologize to swimcat and all who replied to my post. It is not my intent to give more reason to hate religion. I dont want to come across as making excuses, nor do I want to waste everyones time with details for my situation (more than I already have) that dont pertain to the question, which you have answered. I want to state a few facts though: We are (if we get married) planning on living in separate (the homes we each individually own) homes as a sacrifice for a few years, not by desire to do so, or a way to scam FAFSA. This has to do with whats best for each of our children on a personal level. I am FULLY willing to pay for her sons college. My girlfriend has gone through some VERY hard financial situations, because of her ex husband, and the FAFSA aid help was something she was emotionally banking on as at least there is THIS silver lining. When we found out that my finances would negate that, it shocked and devastated, to the point that she said we ought not to get married till her son was out of college. We were planning on getting married sometime in the next few months. I love her and she is my best friend. I am simply trying to think outside the box here for any option that will help her as I will be 58 by the time here son is out of college. As I researched the FAFSA requirements, this seemed a viable option according to FAFSAs own statements. I can understand how mom2collegekids and swimcat and the other posters view it as cafeteria style morality. To me, it seemed like a legal way of saving money. I mean, would you say the same thing if I asked about putting all my money into an annuity or a life insurance plan? Both of those vehicles legally shelter your money from the FAFSA equations. Or would you have the same response if I were to say we simply decided to live together for the next 4 years WITHOUT getting married? Those are both legal strategies according to the FAFSA guidelines, yet both, while adhering to the letter of the law, skirt its intent.
My girlfriend is STILL paying off college loans for her daughter
her ex-husband isnt helping at all. She couldve TOTALLY legally left his income off the FASFA form as they were legitimately separated for a couple of years before getting the divorce, but didnt know that guidelines allowed that at the time, and wanted to be totally honest. (he had a really good job at the time).
My girlfriends EFC if we DONT get married is $1790 per year. With me factored in its $17,710 per year.
Thats $7000 versus $70,000 for 4 years. (rounding)
I am not rich. But I do have some assets. This would be a great hardship.
To be clear, I am going to be splitting the college payment for my daughter (she has 2 more years of high school) equally with my ex-wife. I pay child support for my daughter. I will not be listed as the custodial parent on FAFSA for her as she lives with her mom more than me, although its fairly close. Also her moms income and assets will be the ones more advantageous to put on the FAFSA form
.again, just barely.
Sorry to waste your time with this minutia. You have all given me something to think about, and I appreciate your comments.</p>
<p>I suggest that you not get married and take regular cold showers…unless you think sex is worth the loss of tens of thousands in aid. It’s your call.</p>
<p>I am appalled by the cavalier attitude of some many posters in this thread. Financial Aid offices have a limited amount of funds available for students. They have guidelines dictating how these funds are to be distributed. If two adults skip marriage only to qualify for more FA, they are cheating someone who legitimately has more need than they. </p>
<p>The fact that there are gray areas in legally determining the Expected Family Contribution should not be construed as an invitation to use these gray areas to the detriment of others.</p>
<p>There is a world of difference between putting money in a retirement account (and out of reach of FA offices) and putting undeclared money under your mattress. Both will result in less assets available, but only the former is a proper moral response to the issue. If you are living in a committed, marriage-like relationship, you should report it. If you don’t want to report the assets and income then hold off on the relationship.</p>