Stop playing the race card

<p>Well, how credible is someone who claims that Asian applicants don't face bias in admissions at the elite universities, but yet claims that Jewish applicants do?</p>

<p>(I'm sure there are cases of bias against Jews on an individual basis or at particular schools - but when you look at the % Jewish students overall at Ivy League universities and certain other elite institutions, the claims he makes rings hollow - esp. since there are almost DOUBLE the no. of Asian applicants as Jewish applicants.)</p>

<p>Why do you non-AA folks display so much displeasure about leveling the playing field after years of Jim Crow, but rarely mention the fact that legacy and a contribution of big bucks is more of factor for admissions (up to a third of students at elite schools would not qualify)? Where is the outrage?</p>

<p>Your chances would increase greatly (admissions) if you attacked athletic, legacy, and big donor admission policies instaed of AA. </p>

<p>You do away with all of the other privileges...then we can get down to some serious AA discussions/changes.</p>

<p>i have to agree where k&s pointed out "a school with 40~45% are "homogenous".
How can you say so? is that racism?
Another illigical point I failed to point out; with yoru argument, all ivies and perhaps the "prestigious school" you work for are homogenous.</p>

<p>JohnG, just because someone doesn't discuss about it doesn't mean it's right. Nor does it mean this is wrong.
If we were to discuss stealing is wrong, and you said "discussing murdering is wrong is better". That neither implies murdering is right nor implies stealing is right. Your comment is just way off the topic.</p>

<p>Kennyk616- Based on some of your previous statements, I don't expect you to agree/understand. These are also admissions practices that are deemed unfair. That's a part of the discussion, right?</p>

<p>Bearcats your reporting me because I spoke of what happened? If anything I'm admitting racism.....I don't see where I said anything offensive......I didn't understate anything. Building railroads and things of that nature is horrible. I'm speakin on the chinese of courses who I believe are still the largest percent of American Asians.....I could be wrong. I threw out history bull....everything I said was fact please go find sources to prove them wrong. Deportation? Massive? They were sent to concentration camps which was wrong, but some Japanese even fought in WWII for the US. PLease show me this mass deportation to another country which I have yet to hear about in any history class. Please prove me wrong on that point bearcat because I will admit if I'm wrong. Still are really trying to compare what happened to the African-American family to the Asian-American family? It's not to the same extent at all.</p>

<p>no, JohnG is right on topic. most anti-AAers believe in selection based solely on 'merit,' and preference based on any other criteria is unfair. therefore selection based on AA, legacy, athletes, etc etc is up for debate. it's interesting that CC debates tend to focus on AA, and not other discriminatory practices</p>

<p>K616-</p>

<p>Try taking a bigger view of the problem.</p>

<p>From previous post, I get idea non supporters of AA view it as a privilage for URMs. All I'm saying is let's get rid as many of the privilages as possible. Some people think attacking one segment is wrong. </p>

<p>Maybe having up to a third less students (athletes, legacy, big donor, good ole boy connections) could level the playing field for URMs and other qualified students.</p>

<p>"Latino and Hispanic students with high testing and gpas aren't getting into these schools. Black students with high testing and gpas aren't getting into these schools."</p>

<p>I will agree with many things that AdOfficer says, but not this one.
I work at a community college and our successful Hispanic and Black students are "recruited" by many 4year colleges. I think that diversity is a desirable thing. My main concern is that in their quest for diversity sometimes the needs of the student are overlooked. I am happy when my students are accepted to top 4year colleges, but I also know that a lot of them will not be able to keep up and will fail. They would have been better off to go to a less rigorous school that offers more academic support, but it is hard to say "no" to a top school offering you a great scholarship. So, the top school increases their URM admit numbers and my student ends up dropping out after 3 semesters feeling like a failure!</p>

<p>oh i probably misunderstood what you were trying to say then, i thought u meant since Asians were used to build railroads and things of that nature and even blocked from entry..I thought u were implying the second half of the sentence to be "so it doesnt matter" LOL sry about the misunderstanding</p>

<p>Chacha-</p>

<p>Are these students being admitted w/ lower overall credentials or just lower
SAT/ACT scores?</p>

<p>I work with these students in the "developmental ed" area of the college (meaning that when they were assessed they were reading/writing at below college level ). I love my kids and they work hard, and there are many who are ESL..... but that being said they really do have lower credentials. If determination and hard work could be "scored" many of these kids would be off the charts!</p>

<p>Hey folks, could be just plain easier to take on (blame) the URMs? Maybe you are right buy not making a big fuss over athletes, legacies, sons/daughters of big donors, and all of the good ole boy admissions because you know what...all the whining in the world is not going to change these unqualified students from getting in to these big schools. And by the way, dispite having money and connections, these students also fail out because their overall credentials do not measure up.</p>

<p>So, all of you former bullies know it is much easier attach URMs rather than the many other folks with privileges.</p>

<p>lol john g idn whats you just said</p>

<p>I am not attacking the URMs I think that many schools take advantage of them. They see them as a statistic and do not care about what happens to them. I think that every student deserves to find the place that is right for them.... I know this is a fantasy.</p>

<p>Chacha-</p>

<p>I think you are right, if students do not have the basic credentials, they should not over extend themselves by applying to schools where they have no chance. But again, I think this is a problem in other areas (athletics/legacy)...not just for URMs.</p>

<p>beefs-</p>

<p>I didn't understand you</p>

<p>Thanks Beefs.</p>

<p>I will have to add you to my buddy list</p>

<p>I guess we have different opinions on discussing.
I'm not trying to say you're point of view is wrong or something, just that the "title" of this thread seems to be talking about AA; just like when you're discussing about how to deal with theft, you don't want to come across murder. You can start another discussion.
Otherwise anyone can expand it unlimitedly and talk about EVERYTHING in this world that is unjust.</p>

<p>Although I believe that Asians are hurt by the current racial preference system, I no longer wish to claim that "without affirmative action, Asian enrollment will increase."</p>

<p>It is too provincial. Making such an assertion creates articles like the one by William Kidder, which showed that following Proposition 209, Asians were not the biggest winners at UC law schools; whites were.</p>

<p>Whether or not Asians benefit is not the point. The point is that racial preferences artificially increase the numbers of certain groups while artificially decreasing the numbers of other groups.</p>