<p>But you cannot just expect people to not practise pre-marital sex?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why is promoting condom use ("Wrap It Up," etc) better than promoting traditional sexual morality to our youth in response to the AIDS crisis?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Because it's an idea that actually has a chance in hell of (at least partly) working.</p>
<p>"But you cannot just expect people to not practise pre-marital sex?"</p>
<p>A fundamental Christian goal is to, with the help of the Holy Spirit, inspire others to want to share in the joy of the Christian way of life. We cannot do it alone; but with God, anything is possible. </p>
<p>Is this a question of laws or force? No. People must always be free to say "yes" or say "no" to the Gospel. But, as a follower of Jesus, I must believe that the hearts of all men and women can be changed and brought closer to the Lord.</p>
<p>"..confessions were done in front of the entire congregation because a sin was seen as a transgression against the entire community..."</p>
<p>I need to clarify here. They did not abandon private confessions for public confessions. What I meant by 'group' confessions is that the priest would go thru a list of common sins and the congregation would be expected to confess privately, in their minds. No one spoke their sins out loud. My dad saw this as a sellout because the person no longer needed to tell anyone their sins - they could keep them private. </p>
<p>People could still go to the private confessionals if they chose. But, needless to say, most people went for the group confessions because it was easier and more efficient. The priest could absolve the entire congregation in just a few minutes.</p>
<p>"...The Church also holds that pleasure in sex -- within marriage -- is very important. Spouses should be having fun in the sack..."</p>
<p>This is another example of how the church has changed its doctrine. My parents believed that it was a 'duty' to have sex (and make babies) and a sin if they enjoyed it. Then they tried to force those views on us. </p>
<p>My dad probably adhered more to the letter of the law than many Catholics. He spent a lot of time ranting about how other Catholics were breaking the Catholic rules by practicing birth control, etc.</p>
<p>Uh, waiting until marriage will not stop the spread of aids. Remember a lot of IV Drug users and the like get aids. And, also think about how some folks are on the downlow. There are scads more really nasty things I could state about this issue, but I am not in the mood. </p>
<p>Personally, I think that the concept of waiting until marriage is beautiful. I have never, nor will I ever, knock someone for believing in that. </p>
<p>Fides I understand where you are coming from. But, you cannot think that what you believe would work everywhere, you know? For some folks, being taught about proper condom use and all of that is the safest way to go. There is more than just one side to this issue, Fides. I mean no disrespect to you. </p>
<p>I like what The GCAAP (I think my acronym might be off a smidgen) does over in Georgia. They educate the youngsters on all sides of this issue. In my opinion, that is more realistic. And, the rate of teen pregnancy has been going down every year that group has been going. So, maybe that is nice?</p>
<p>Well said, Merlin!</p>
<p>"This is another example of how the church has changed its doctrine. My parents believed that it was a 'duty' to have sex (and make babies) and a sin if they enjoyed it. Then they tried to force those views on us."</p>
<p>Show me where the Church (ie. the Holy See, the Vatican, and not just your parents' priest) has ever taught that receiving pleasure from the conjugal act is sinful. Just because your parents got that impression at their parish does not mean that it was official Church doctrine.</p>
<p>It sounds to me like they just had a bad or misguided priest.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But it isn't just Catholicism that asserts this position. The fact is that most authoritative Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, and even Hindu and Buddhist bodies are against the use of condoms, and uphold the traditional vision of sexual morality. The Dalai Lama, for instance, refuses to bless homosexual unions or condone contraception for the very same reasons that the Catholic Church refuses to do so. (Ironically, nobody bashes the Dalai Lama over this.)
[/quote]
None of the Dharmic religion(Hinduism,Budhism,Sikhism) says so. That view is shared by Abrahmic religions(including Islam).</p>
<p>
[quote]
When condoms or birth control pills come into the equasion, it devalues sex, makes it something less and cheaper than what it should be.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Or maybe it decreases the chances that a new little follower will be made.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The fact is that most authoritative Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, and even Hindu and Buddhist bodies are against the use of condoms, and uphold the traditional vision of sexual morality.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't know a single Buddhist doctrine that states that birth control is bad. There is no akusala involved, as no killing occurs. Show me doctrinal proof that the majority of Buddhists are against birth control.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Quote:
When condoms or birth control pills come into the equasion, it devalues sex, makes it something less and cheaper than what it should be.</p>
<p>Or maybe it decreases the chances that a new little follower will be made.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Excellent point!</p>
<p>From the UK TELEGRAPH...</p>
<hr>
<p>'Westerners are too self-absorbed': Dalai Lama
By Alice Thomson
(Filed: 01/04/2006)</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>Teaching the virtues of compassion, kindness and tolerance to both East and West must make for a complicated, exhausting life. </p>
<p>At 8am, as I walk past the yak-tea stalls to his bungalow - the Heavenly Abode - people are already queueing in the drizzle to catch a glimpse of his Holiness. The Dalai Lama has been awake since 3.30am, praying and ordaining monks in the temple. </p>
<p>My first glimpse of the living god comes as a short, squat man runs through the rain from his garden into his sitting-room, his maroon robes flapping behind him. The broad face, set into permanent laughter-lines, is unmistakable. He is chuckling. </p>
<p>The white-painted room contains a man-sized bronze Buddha and a sofa and two armchairs that look as if they might have come from John Lewis's furniture department. </p>
<p>After I have offered the Dalai Lama the traditional kurta (a white scarf to bless), he throws himself into one of the chairs and stretches out his feet. </p>
<p>"At least monks don't need hair-dryers," he says, chortling. His readiness to break into laughter is his most striking characteristic: his laugh is uncontainable and uncontrollable, ricocheting around the room even when he is discussing atrocities. </p>
<p>"What shall we talk about today?" he asks, rubbing his hands together as I tell him about my meetings with Tsering and Heidi. He chooses to discuss the West before Tibet. </p>
<p>"It is fascinating," he says, speaking in slightly stilted English. "In the West, you have bigger homes, yet smaller families; you have endless conveniences - yet you never seem to have any time. You can travel anywhere in the world, yet you don't bother to cross the road to meet your neighbours; you have more food than you could possibly eat, yet that makes women like Heidi miserable." </p>
<p>The West's big problem, he believes, is that people have become too self-absorbed. "I don't think people have become more selfish, but their lives have become easier and that has spoilt them. They have less resilience, they expect more, they constantly compare themselves to others and they have too much choice - which brings no real freedom." </p>
<p>**He has lived as a monk since childhood, but the Dalai Lama views marriage as one of the chief ways of finding happiness. "Too many people in the West have given up on marriage. They don't understand that it is about developing a mutual admiration of someone, a deep respect and trust and awareness of another human's needs," he says. "The new easy-come, easy-go relationships give us more freedom - but less contentment." </p>
<p>Although he is known for his tolerant, humane views, he is a surprisingly harsh critic of homosexuality. If you are a Buddhist, he says, it is wrong. "Full stop. </p>
<p>No way round it.</p>
<p>"A gay couple came to see me, seeking my support and blessing. I had to explain our teachings. Another lady introduced another woman as her wife - astonishing. It is the same with a husband and wife using certain sexual practices. Using the other two holes is wrong."</p>
<p>At this point, he looks across at his interpreter - who seems mainly redundant - to check that he has been using the right English words to discuss this delicate matter. The interpreter gives a barely perceptible nod.</p>
<p>"A Western friend asked me what harm could there be between consenting adults having oral sex, if they enjoyed it," the Dalai Lama continues, warming to his theme. "But the purpose of sex is reproduction, according to Buddhism. The other holes don't create life. I don't mind - but I can't condone this way of life."**</p>
<p>He laughs when I change the subject and talk about the West's attempts to become more spiritual through yoga, massage and acupuncture. "These are just physical activities," he says. "To be happier, you must spend less time plotting your life and be more accepting."</p>
<p>...</p>
<p>Many of the Western women who queue up to be blessed, he says, have told him they feel they can talk to him about anything.</p>
<p>"I see women who have had abortions because they thought a child would ruin their lives. A baby seemed unbearable - yet now they are older, they are unable to conceive. I feel so sorry for them." </p>
<p>They need to discover an inner strength, he tells them. "The West is now quite weak - it can't cope with adversity and it has little compassion for others. People are like plants - they can develop ways of countering negative forces. If people took more responsibility for their own problems, they would become more self-confident." </p>
<p>He does not believe that you have to be religious in order to have a meaningful life. "But you have to have morals, to strive for basic, good human qualities. I don't want to convert people to Buddhism - all major religions, when understood properly, have the same potential for good."</p>
<p>Yet while he has been sitting in his bungalow in the Himalayas, religion has turned ugly, with fanatics stirring up hatred "Fundamentalism is terrifying because it is based purely on emotion, rather than intelligence. It prevents followers from thinking as individuals and about the good of the world," he says.</p>
<p>An avid listener of the BBC World Service (as well as of many soaps), he was horrified to hear about Britain's "home-grown" suicide bombers. "In any country or society, there will be rich, poor, different races, different religions - but this is all secondary. Your country should be your common ground. </p>
<p>"This new terrorism has been brewing for many years. Much of it is caused by jealousy and frustration at the West because it looks so highly developed and successful on television. Leaders in the East use religion to counter that, to bind these countries together." </p>
<p>Terrorists, he warns, must be treated humanely. "Otherwise, the problem will escalate. If there is one Bin Laden killed today, soon there will be 10 Bin Ladens. Awesome. Ten Bin Ladens killed, the hatred is spread; 100 bombed, and 1,000 lose members of their families." </p>
<p>...</p>
<p>The Dalai Lama is no innocent when it comes to realpolitik: he regularly chats to Nelson Mandela, debates ethical issues with the Pope, and knows many world leaders personally through his attempts to highlight the Tibetan cause. Although he appears not to approve of the war in Iraq, he nevertheless admires President Bush. </p>
<p>"He is very straightforward," says the Dalai Lama - and it's clear that this is high praise indeed. "On our first visit, I was faced with a large plate of biscuits. President Bush immediately offered me his favourites, and after that, we got on fine. On my next visit, he didn't mind when I was blunt about the war. By my third visit, I was ushering him into the Oval Office. I was astonished by his grasp of Buddhism."</p>
<p>On Mr Blair, the Dalai Lama is less forthcoming. When I ask what he thinks of the Prime Minister, he replies: "He smiles a lot." Oddly, this doesn't come out sounding like a compliment, and he refuses to elaborate, ducking expertly into another subject. Now, John Major - he'd like to meet him, he says. "I saw him on television - he looks rather gentle." </p>
<p>The Dalai Lama believes that the British should look to the Archbishop of Canterbury, whom he admires, for spiritual and moral guidance. </p>
<p>But the Church of England, I say, seems tied up in the tortuous question of whether it should accept homosexual priests. And when the Archbishop visited Darfur, he did not exactly dwell on the subject of genocide; nor have Western leaders in general.</p>
<p>"Sometimes," says the Dalai Lama, "situations are unbearable - it is easier for the world to turn a blind eye."</p>
<p>But wasn't he angry when the West refused to do anything while Tibetans were being slaughtered by the Chinese? "We need to prevent these genocides happening in the first place. In Africa, it is due to many factors: local leaders are obsessed with guns, and weapons are encouraged by the West. Education should be pushed instead. Hunger and drought also cause problems. These countries have become independent only in the last few decades - they are still learning. Religious leaders need to show them the way."</p>
<p>He is curiously reticent about discussing Tibet, insisting that he doesn't want to focus on his own problems. "Some nomads still have a very low standard of life," he says finally. "There are more cars, better medical facilities and schools - but you only benefit if you are Chinese." </p>
<p>...</p>
<p>I ask if his tours and books have made him rich. "Everyone thinks I am. Even my friends. But the money goes to the Tibetan cause [for refugees, such as Tsering]. I get 25 rupees [about 32p] a day from the Indian government. My senior officials get 75. We don't get fat."</p>
<p>Like all Tibetan monks, he eats an early breakfast, then lunch and no supper. "My younger brother, who lives with me, teases me and says I rise so early only to get to the table first because I am so greedy. I eat what I am offered. It's the pig diet - a little bit of everything: porridge, meat, Tibetan dumplings, vegetables. </p>
<p>"That is what your girl Heidi should do. No faddy diets. It is a waste of life to be always thinking about the next meal if you don't have to." </p>
<p>The Dalai Lama's way of life is frugal - but not punishing. He doesn't have to squash into economy seats when he takes off on his global tours, for example. "If I fly abroad, I fly business class - or my robes engulf everyone," he explains. "But first class is an outrageous luxury." </p>
<p>...</p>
<hr>
<p>Okay. You do realize that the Dalai Lama doesn't speak for all of Buddhism, right?</p>
<p>No, he's only seen as the living reincarnation of Buddha by Buddhists.</p>
<p>In Tibetan Buddhism. Not all Buddhists ascribe to it. BTW, the Dalai Lama is seen as the the bodhisattva of compassion. Big difference.</p>
<p>Like who, Western liberal "Buddhists"?</p>
<p>Oh, and birth control is not universally frowned upon in Judaism. In fact, even some Orthodox rabbis will approve it in certain circumstances (depending on which method is best from a halachic point of view). Though Genesis seems fairly clear on the issue, Talmud is not, meaning that there is some room for interpretation.</p>
<p>Or so my rabbi said.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Like who, Western liberal "Buddhists"?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Anyone who doesn't follow Tibetan Buddhism, really.</p>
<p>FeR,</p>
<p>Think of the Dalai Lama as the leader of a branch of Buddhism. Like how the Pope is the leader of Catholicism. Just like the Pope doesn't speak for all Christians, the Dalai Lama doesn't speak for all Buddhists.</p>
<p>Like. . . all Buddhists who don't subscribe to the Vajrayana sect of Tibetan Buddhism.</p>