Stop the Spread of AIDS: Don't Fornicate

College Confidential Community
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<p>When discussing the AIDS crisis, I always catch heat whenever I stand behind the unchanging teaching of the Catholic Church regarding sexual morality -- that is, wait until marriage and stay faithful within marriage. Now, I cannot fathom how anybody could deny that this would be the best, most effective, simplest, and most cost-effective way to stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases like AIDS. If everybody did this, AIDS would slowly die out on its own. Yet most of the Western world seems to look upon pre-marital chastity and marital fidelity as an answer to the AIDS crisis with scorn and ridicule. The far better answer, to them, seems to be condoms (which are most certainly not fool-proof or infallible)... and throwing billions of dollars into AIDS research. Anything but telling people that keeping it in their pants might be a good idea.</p>

<p>Why is this? Why is promoting condom use ("Wrap It Up," etc) better than promoting traditional sexual morality to our youth in response to the AIDS crisis? Have we simply become incapable of controlling our carnal desires, like animals? Has pre-marital chastity and marital fidelity really become such an "impossible" notion in our society? </p>

<p>What do YOU think?</p>

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<p>You know what else is an effective way of solving the AIDS crisis? Killing everyone with AIDS. A KCl shot costs maybe $0.50 so we could completely wipe out AIDS for only $23 million!!! Dude come on, asking that question is like saying "why do we spend so much money researching skin cancer when you could just never go outside or experience direct sunlight"</p>

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<p>What about babies with AIDS? Maybe they should've thought about that before having gay sex eh?</p>

<p>Abstinence maybe the best way to prevent STDs but it's not the only way. Hey, if I'm 95% protected from STDS, I'll take my chances with a condom. If you don't feel safe after that, fine. I'm not gonna hold it against you, I have much respect for those who save themselves for marriage or a person they love. But not everyone is gonna conform to the idea of "Hey everyone, I have a great idea! Lets protect ourselves by not having sex for a really long time!". </p>

<p>Abstinence only education does not work. Simple as that. Look at the rates of STD's and teen pregnancies in countries that practice it vs. countries that don't.</p>

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<p>What about babies with AIDS? Maybe they should've thought about that before having gay sex eh?</p>

<p>Abstinence maybe the best way to prevent STDs but it's not the only way. Hey, if I'm 95% protected from STDS, I'll take my chances with a condom. If you don't feel safe after that, fine. I'm not gonna hold it against you, I have much respect for those who save themselves for marriage or a person they love. But not everyone is gonna conform to the idea of "Hey everyone, I have a great idea! Lets protect ourselves by not having sex for a really long time!". </p>

<p>Abstinence only education does not work. Simple as that. Look at the rates of STD's and teen pregnancies in countries that practice it vs. countries that don't.</p>

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<p>It's the insistence by the Catholic Church that people didn't use condoms that has contributed to the spread of AIDS in Africa. Abstinence only does NOT work. People have urges that have to be satisfied.</p>

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<p>Not everyone can control their carnal desires (and you cannot expect them to), therfore condoms ARE the best solution to prevent AIDS, nothing else even comes close.</p>

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<p>Two problems:
1) Not everyone with HIV knows they have it. Remember, one can be infected for up to 10 years before showing symptoms.
2) It can be spread in ways other than intercourse. </p>

<p>It's true that abstinence would curb the spread. Implementing that would be almost impossible. The promotion of condoms is an effort to prevent a wildfire-spread of the disease like when it broke out of Congo along the Kinshasa Highway via prostitutes.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Not everyone can control their carnal desires (and you cannot expect them to)

[/quote]

Sure I can. Only humans, bonobos, and dolphins have been proven to have recreational sex. If squirrels don't jump on each other every chance they get, one would hope that humans would be able to do slightly better. </p>

<p>That said, AIDS is a rather wussy disease. It's only a Biosafety Level II agent. :p</p>

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<p>"It's the insistence by the Catholic Church that people didn't use condoms that has contributed to the spread of AIDS in Africa. Abstinence only does NOT work. People have urges that have to be satisfied."</p>

<p>Please. If people were really listening to the Catholic Church in Africa, they wouldn't be running around screwing everything that moves, now would they? If they aren't listening to the Church on pre-marital sex and marital fidelity, which is clearly the case, I highly doubt that their lack of condom usage is due to adherence to Church teaching. </p>

<p>In any case, the Catholic Church's anti-condom stance is an extremely serious and complex moral issue that should be treated with respect. Very simply, it is not within the Holy See's power to approve condom usage. To do so would be to go against the faith it is charged with protecting. As for theological reasons, there are many -- chief among them is that condom usage promotes the degradation of the conjugal act to a mere exercise of physical pleasure, when its true nature is so much more than that. More gravely, it closes it off to its primary function: the miracle of life. This is not something that the Church takes lightly, nor should it. </p>

<p>If the Church were to "OK" condoms -- something that is theologically impossible if the Church is being honest with itself about the faith, but nevertheless -- it would be guilty of an enormous moral evil. Too, the Church would also lose its credibility in the eyes of true Christians, something that has happened to the Church of England and several other mainline Protestant Church Bodies over the past few decades because of their repeated concessions to secular, anti-religious culture. This is why the Catholic Church is different from all the others; this is why Protestant Christians are converting to Catholicism at an astounding rate today. It's the real deal, and it will never water itself down for the benefit of those who despise it.</p>

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<p>What you are stating is logical......but not everybody follows (or practises) Catholicism.</p>

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<p>But it isn't just Catholicism that asserts this position. The fact is that most authoritative Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, and even Hindu and Buddhist bodies are against the use of condoms, and uphold the traditional vision of sexual morality. The Dalai Lama, for instance, refuses to bless homosexual unions or condone contraception for the very same reasons that the Catholic Church refuses to do so. (Ironically, nobody bashes the Dalai Lama over this.)</p>

<p>The problem, I guess, is that so many people don't follow anything these days. A lack of religion in peoples lives may not directly lead to moral relativism or a lack of morality, but it sure does seem to blur the lines of right and wrong. Evils that are not immediately self-evident to be evils are often given the A-OK, when a serious and deep theological reflection on them would lead one to different conclusions. If one is not religious at all, that serious and deep theological reflection tends not to happen. It often becomes merely "everyone else is doing it, why not I?" Such people truly become products of their time; what they believe to be right is what their ever-changing culture says is right, no matter how messed-up it is. </p>

<p>Before I ventured into the study of Catholic theology myself, I supported abortion, euthanasia, homosexual marriage, contraception, etc. What led me to conclude that they are moral evils was the in-depth, complex reasoning behind the Church's teaching on them. They all made sense to me in the end. The Church did not simply pull these teachings out of a hat or come up with them on a whim; they are the culmination of centuries and centuries of serious and scholarly theological reflection. Had I not thought long and hard about the issues and studied them rigorously, I probably would still blindly support them, despite my faith in Christ.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
You know what else is an effective way of solving the AIDS crisis? Killing everyone with AIDS. A KCl shot costs maybe $0.50 so we could completely wipe out AIDS for only $23 million!!! Dude come on, asking that question is like saying "why do we spend so much money researching skin cancer when you could just never go outside or experience direct sunlight"

[/quote]
You know what's even cheaper than that? Don't fund anything to help AIDS victims. Then it's free.</p>

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<p>"this is why Protestant Christians are converting to Catholicism at an astounding rate today. It's the real deal, and it will never water itself down for the benefit of those who despise it..."</p>

<p>I would respectfully disagree. You are a new convert to Catholicism. I, otoh, was raised Catholic. I distinctly remember my dad having a fit every so often because the Catholic church gave in yet again on some issue. He would rant for hours on end how they watered something down to 'be like the Protestants' and attract more young people to the church, since they were losing people in droves. (Of 10 kids in my family, only 4 are still Catholic.) One example is confession. He threw a fit when the church took away the private confession requirement in favor of communal (group) confessions. (That was too easy to just confess in your mind without talking to a priest.) Another is doing away with women wearing veils. Another is letting women assist in the Mass. Another is the Sat. night service. I think the Lenten fasting got watered down. Then there was the changing of the words of the Lord's prayer - they added those words that the Protestants used. My dad had a field day with that one. He impressed me so much that I vowed to never say those 'Protestant' words! Oh, there are dozens of examples, but I'm a little rusty (I'm one of the 6 who is no longer Catholic.) Point is that I witnessed the Catholic church watering down its doctrines numerous times as I grew up, always in the direction of making it easier on the people.</p>

<p>Also, regarding the birth control, that is a farce. My parents had 12 kids (2 of whom died as babies) because they adhered to the rules and did not use birth control. (We were very poor as a result, but whenever I complained my mom would retort 'well if we had stopped after #11 you wouldn't be here!')</p>

<p>My dad, always the self-righteous sort, frequently complained about how nearly all the other Catholic families were sinning because they used birth control. It was obvious, because most of them had small families. I remember in school (I went to Catholic school) I was one of only a very few kids in our school who had more than 1 or 2 siblings. Let's see: there were the Webers and the Hoffmans - I think that was it. All the other families had 2 or 3 kids, while the Webers, Hoffmans, and my family had 7-10 kids. It was obvious who the 'good' Catholics were.</p>

<p>If you think Catholic teens are any more likely to abstain, I would respectfully disagree on that too. I know because the first time I ever made out was at a CYO (Catholic Youth Organization) party (in 7th grade), and in 9th grade the CYO went to the coast. The kids all got drunk and stoned and there was plenty of fornicating on the beach. And, the priest got drunk and we all suspected he was having an affair with one of the chaperones, a divorced woman. (My dad used to complain about 'divorcees' too as if they were horribly evil women. And people who lived together were 'living in sin.') I was terrified when I had to ride in the car with that priest when he was drunk.</p>

<p>I've been a recovering Catholic for 25 years now. I'm almost recovered, I think. It's been a process.</p>

<p>I'm sorry if this sounds disrespectful to you. If the Catholic church has given you spiritual peace, then I am happy for you! I am just trying to make the point that someone new to the church doesn't have quite the same perspective as someone who was raised in it. There are a lot of wonderful things about the church - I still did retain some of the core values I was raised with - but there is also a tremendous amount of hypocrisy. (And a lot of things I don't agree with, which is why I left.) Being raised Catholic with the fear of going to hell for stealing a cookie was very traumatizing. 3 of my sisters got really emotionally messed up because of it.</p>

<p>So, no, the Catholic church is not for everyone. So it's unrealistic to expect everyone to adhere to its values. Hell, not even the priests do.</p>

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<p>btw, I think maybe I will start a new thread entitled:</p>

<p>Stop Cancer! Quit Eating Meat!</p>

<p>See, I am a vegetarian and I happen to know that vegetarians have dramatically lower risks for all types of cancers, as well as heart disease, stroke, osteoporosis, and many other degenerative diseases.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Please. If people were really listening to the Catholic Church in Africa, they wouldn't be running around screwing everything that moves, now would they?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That is the most ideal situation you can aim for. Get people to stop having sex. That's why it doesn't work in reality. Abstinence works, abstinence only education does not. Abstinence should be something they teach in all sex-ed classes, but lets not be stupid, give people options. Abstinence only education is about as effective as that marijuana PSA that shows the kid getting high and shooting his friend in the face with his dad's shotgun.</p>

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<p>I may be mistaken...but I don't think Judaism is directly against the use of condoms. Judaism looks positively on sex for pleasure and not just procreation. </p>

<p>Personally, I've always been for planned parenthood/condom sex education for the sole reason that studies comparing it to abstinence only education show that it works better. </p>

<p>I am also pretty put off by the disrespectful statement that people in africa are "running around the screwing everything that moves". </p>

<p>Sexual Morality is also a social construct that I don't necessarily agree with.</p>

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<p>Actually, Fidet es Ratio, muslims don't look down upon contraception or anything like that. Sex for pleasure is seen positively as well, as long as it is within the bounds of marriage, because it is an important part of a relationship, and because god knows that humans have needs that must (lawfully) be satisfied.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
He would rant for hours on end how they watered something down to 'be like the Protestants' and attract more young people to the church, since they were losing people in droves. (Of 10 kids in my family, only 4 are still Catholic.) One example is confession. He threw a fit when the church took away the private confession requirement in favor of communal (group) confessions. (That was too easy to just confess in your mind without talking to a priest.)

[/quote]

That's odd. In the early Church, confessions were done in front of the entire congregation because a sin was seen as a transgression against the entire community. It was only later that private confessions were implemented, with the priest being a representative of the church community. All the Catholic churches I've attended do private confessions, although most don't have the neat little confessionals any more. :p</p>

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<p>Who does group confessions in the Catholic Church? I've never even heard of that before. I know that when I confess it is done in the confessional, one-on-one with a priest, who acts In Persona Christi, the mediator between myself and the Lord. I wouldn't have the Sacrament any other way.</p>

<p>Even if group confessions were an option in today's Church -- something I doubt, but I will find out for certain -- who in their right mind would opt to let more people than necessary hear all of their sins? This is a very personal matter.</p>

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<p>I second Goldshaw</p>

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<p>The Church also holds that pleasure in sex -- within marriage -- is very important. Spouses should be having fun in the sack; if they aren't then something is wrong. But the Church also teaches that, above all, couples should not forget the ultimate purpose of sex, which is the giving of life. When condoms or birth control pills come into the equasion, it devalues sex, makes it something less and cheaper than what it should be. The important thing is to always be open to life when making love, because it is a gift from God. Being open to life is honoring God's gift to us in the fullest way.</p>

<p>Personally, I am surprised to hear that the Islam does not share this view. Regarding "hot button" moral issues like this, Catholic Christianity and Islam are usually very close.</p>