<p>…but doesn’t seem to have changed things much…</p>
<p>Wow,this thread could go on forever. OP, best of luck to you wherever you decide to go. Your future is what you make of it.</p>
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<p>Absolutely. And during such times it’s even more important to try to gain perspective. This entire thread is about the unwillingness of some people to accept the reality that certain aspects of college admissions don’t work in your favor no matter how much you disagree with them or how much you refuse to acknowledge them. It is also about managing expectations based on such known realities. For example, it’s simply a fact that not every academically gifted Asian student is going to be admitted into the small handful of elite schools to which so many of them choose to apply no matter how many non Asians there may be with a lower SAT score. The same is true for any segment of the population that applies to the same schools in very large numbers with similarly concentrated attributes - the schools simply will not and cannot take them all, and because there are so many they will be rejected in disproportionate numbers. Most people who have taken the time to understand this are very empathetic to the disappointments that might ensue because they recognize that it’s a difficult reality that applies to everyone under similar circumstances. However, when such disappointments are used to infer that applicants with other qualifying attributes are less worthy, or that racism is at hand because qualities other than test scores dare to be recognized…well, that kind of complaining tends to erode compassion. </p>
<p>That said, I don’t think there’s anyone here who doesn’t understand the OP’s disappointment – I’ve most certainly been there – or wish him and his friends anything less than the best of luck in their future endeavors.</p>
<p>^I didn’t get that the OP was implying nearly as much as has been inferred by many here. </p>
<p>To me, he sounded disappointed, and - yes - a little rueful, and - okay - POSSIBLY a tad suspicious, but most of all just surprised and confused that none of these guys got accepted.</p>
<p>Different readers infer different things. Some see finger-pointing and victim-ness, while I see a teenager who thinks concretely and reacted quickly and is maybe not that sophisticated about how much a thread title can derail a message. </p>
<p>But maybe I’m wrong. Wouldn’t be the first time.</p>
<p>[I have no doubt that my teen son would have found an equally circumspect way to screw up a message posted on a forum populated by adult thinkers, readers, and writers.] </p>
<p><slinks off,=“” trembling,=“” to=“” consider=“” the=“” disastrous=“” possibilities=“”></slinks></p>
<p>The elite schools do NOT choose students based on test scores and GPA alone. That is a fact. Those elements are only one of an array of very important considerations for admission.</p>
<p>Let’s look at Harvard – it considers the following factors for admission:</p>
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<p>See: [College</a> Search - Harvard College - Admission](<a href=“College Search - BigFuture | College Board”>College Search - BigFuture | College Board)</p>
<p>I see nothing on that list to suggest that test scores or GPA somehow outweigh all the other factors. What if there was some sort of internal way that Harvard quantified each of the elements above? And then, hypothetically, they’ve got a kid who earns 3000 points on the volunteer work + work experience + strong sense of social responsibility metric, as well as 2180 on the SAT (combined score =5180) – and some other kid with 2400 on the SAT, but only 1000 points in the volunteer work / work experience / social responsibility categories – ( combined score = 3400) – well, 5180 is a lot more than 3400, so its pretty obvious to me that if they started handing out numbers for all of those other very important criteria for admission, there would be a lot of very smart students who would suddenly find themselves at the bottom of the heap. </p>
<p>Harvard isn’t going to try to quantify volunteer work, creative ability, or “liveliness of mind” – but the point is that they are important factors for admission. Anyone who asserts that they are “more qualified” than someone else based on their test scores and GPA simply is dead wrong. A kid with a 2200 SAT and enthusiastic recommendations or a dynamic essay may very definitely be seen as “more qualified” than a kid with a 2400 SAT, lukewarm recs, and a poorly written, prosaic essay – otherwise, what’s the point of requiring essays, and interview, and LOR’s?</p>
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<p>I think the problem is not that. Everyone understand the concept of Holistic admissions, so they know the scores alone won’t cut the deal and emphasis is on whole package.</p>
<p>But the problem here is that OP and his friends would have gotten acceptances just by checking one box on the application. </p>
<p>OP fear is that if his same application had just the URM box checked in, he would have seen acceptances from many of the colleges he has seen the rejection.</p>
<p>You don’t know that at all, POIH. You cannot say that for a fact.</p>
<p>Agreed PizzaGirl; but we can’t deny it also for a fact. I did say it’s OPs fear and that’s what he expressed in the opening post of this thread.</p>
<p>I still think he has a right to do so and bashing on the thread against the post was not civil.</p>
<p>all the people who applied from my school (all Asian) were rejected as well, and we had varying ecs, grades, tests, etc. I chalk it up to the massive amount of applications this year and a tough applicant pool, though…</p>
<p>pOIH, my nephew, a URM with scores and grades similar to the OP, recruited athlete in his sport, stellar ECs, extremely rigorous private school, interviews exceedingly well, was rejected at H and Penn but got into Princeton, MIT, Williams and a few other places. Does that mean it’s “unfair” he didn’t get into H and Penn? Was he guaranteed a place there that someone else took?</p>
<p>PizzaGirl, when DD got her only rejection from Harvard it never crossed our minds that she was unfairly rejected because of some one else. DD and I thought about it for a minute and moved on. DW took some time to recover but even she never thought of it being “unfair”.</p>
<p>But in this case OP has been shut out of all the colleges which is different. It is not that he doesn’t have good options but he might have been disappointed big time. </p>
<p>He expressed his disappointment through the fear that his application might have been the victim of these colleges agenda to artificially balance ethnicities on the college campuses.</p>
<p>What’s wrong in expressing the feeling? I think we should express our fears and talk about it rather than keeping it inside and then blasting it in a youtube video.</p>
<p>All of the recruited athletes I know receive likely letters in the fall - they never apply to other schools. Did the school he chose recruit him to play? My very anecdotal evidence is that URM only helps if it is combined with lower economic conditions - the tippy top schools are really looking for disadvantaged kids who have done well academically in less than optimal circumstances. Wealthy URMs usually need similar stats and accomplishments as everyone else at the most selective schools, although it may help on its own at schools which are slightly less selective. A wealthy URM at my son’s school was just denied at three ivies. Although she is a good, well rounded student, in my view, she had a very low chance at these schools, and I was surprised to hear that she applied to so many. Most likely, URM did not help her because she’s already had loads of opportunity - no need to lend her a helping hand.</p>
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<p>The children of President Obama will be given any advantage not because so much that they are URMs as much as they will have advantages that all of children of the POTUS have had.</p>
<p>A quick search of this years acceptance rates of the Ivys plus MIT and Stanford shows that only Penn and Cornell have acceptance rates in the double digits:
Harvard Acceptance Rate: 6.2% [Harvard</a> Accepts Record Low 6.2 Percent of Applicants to the Class of 2015 | News | The Harvard Crimson](<a href=“http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/3/30/percent-students-year-class-2015/]Harvard”>Harvard Accepts Record Low 6.2 Percent of Applicants to the Class of 2015 | News | The Harvard Crimson)
Yale : 7.35% [BREAKING:</a> Yale accepts 2,006, waitlists 996 | Yale Daily News](<a href=“http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/mar/30/breaking-admission-rate-735-percent/]BREAKING:”>http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/mar/30/breaking-admission-rate-735-percent/)
Columbia: 6.4% [Columbia</a> College admit rate drops to 6.4 percent](<a href=“http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2011/03/30/cc-admit-rate-drops-64-percent]Columbia”>http://www.columbiaspectator.com/2011/03/30/cc-admit-rate-drops-64-percent)
Princeton: 8.39% [Princeton</a> University - Princeton makes offers to 8.39 percent of applicants in record admission cycle](<a href=“Princeton makes offers to 8.39 percent of applicants in record admission cycle”>Princeton makes offers to 8.39 percent of applicants in record admission cycle)
Stanford: 7.1% [Stanford</a> accepts 2,427 high school applicants | Stanford Daily](<a href=“http://www.stanforddaily.com/2011/03/29/stanford-accepts-2427-high-school-applicants/]Stanford”>Stanford accepts 2,427 high school applicants)
Brown: 8.7% [</a>" + artTitle.replace(“-”,“”) + " - " + “The Brown Daily Herald” + "](<a href=“http://www.browndailyherald.com/web-update-u-admits-record-low-8-7-percent-of-applicants-to-class-of-2015-1.2527424]”>http://www.browndailyherald.com/web-update-u-admits-record-low-8-7-percent-of-applicants-to-class-of-2015-1.2527424)
Cornell: 18% [Admissions</a> Rate Drops for Class of 2015 | The Cornell Daily Sun](<a href=“http://www.cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2011/03/31/admissions-rate-drops-class-2015]Admissions”>http://www.cornellsun.com/section/news/content/2011/03/31/admissions-rate-drops-class-2015)
Dartmouth: 9.7% [Dartmouth</a> Admits 9.7 Percent of Applicants for Class of 2015|Dartmouth Now](<a href=“http://now.dartmouth.edu/2011/03/dartmouth-admits-9-7-percent-of-applicants-for-class-of-2015/]Dartmouth”>http://now.dartmouth.edu/2011/03/dartmouth-admits-9-7-percent-of-applicants-for-class-of-2015/)
Penn: 12.3% [Admissions</a> rate drops to 12.3 percent | The Daily Pennsylvanian](<a href=“http://thedp.com/article/admissions-rate-drops-12-percent]Admissions”>http://thedp.com/article/admissions-rate-drops-12-percent)
MIT: 9.7% [9.7</a> percent admission rate for Class of 2014 - The Tech](<a href=“http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N13/admissions.html]9.7”>http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N13/admissions.html)</p>
<p>OK- I will be blunt as it is early in the morning and I have not had my cup of coffee:
With acceptance rates this low, one can imagine a large, LARGE pool of applicants who were shut out of all the top schools they applied to. Picture, if you will, 100 of the applicants who were shut out of all the ivys standing together. The OP scooped up 4 of the members of this unfortunate group who happened to be asian. And while I am sure there are folks of all nationalities, religions and skin color in this group, I have to wonder if the number of asians in this group are over-represented simply because of the large number of asians who apply. It seems (and I am generalizing, but bear with me) to be a sociocultural belief that these are the only acceptable schools to attend. There is no shame in attending many other fine, FINE institutions. </p>
<p>This college applications race has, IMO, gotten ridiculously out of hand. If something isn’t done to get a handle on this insanity and ratchet it down, this will continue, stress on our HS seniors will continue to escalate, and the acceptance rates will continue to decline. With rates that low, many, no MOST students will be denied acceptance. To blame it on one’s race is, IMO a cop out. Please, tell yourselves and your parents that there are many wonderful schools out there. Select them because they are the RIGHT school for you, not because they are prestigious. The trophy hunting HAS to stop. What is the point of throwing spaghetti at the wall just to see if it will stick? A more selective, well-reasoned application process with emphasis on why you, the applicant are the right choice for the school and vice versa, is what is important. Not just grades, standardized test scores, and some ECs. </p>
<p>OK- flame away.</p>
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<p>If that’s the case then what’s the difference between a economically disadvantage white, Asian or any other URM?</p>
<p>sybbie719: Reference to President Obama was to indicate wealthy URM.</p>
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Say what?? If there are a disproportionately high number of asians applying to these schools, then if acceptances didn’t consider diversity in their selection, the student population could probably then be disproportionately ethnically unbalanced. These private schools have a right to put together a class that is “balanced”, whatever that means. Are ORM’s going to feel the effects? Yes. But IMO thats basically because they are merely an overrepresented group, regardless of what that overrepresented group is. It seems the blame is being pointed outward instead of inward.</p>
<p>This is a fascinating article: [Ivy</a> League Alumni Quit Admissions Interviews as Success Slips - Bloomberg](<a href=“Bloomberg - Are you a robot?”>Bloomberg - Are you a robot?) Even alumnae interviewers are getting frustrated because few of the kids they interviewed and perhaps advocated for were accepted. This disappointment is far reaching.
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<p>and HERE is the description and link to the research done on the Jewish quota in the 1920’s
This isn’t happening now. There is NOT a quota- there is simply a flooding of applicants and a limited number of spaces.</p>
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Not to flame, but they did apply to other schools. However, these were kids at the top of their class with 2350+ test scores, and I’m certain some sort of ECs. Certainly they have as much right as anybody to apply to the top schools. It’s certainly not advisable to apply someplace only because it is prestigious. But that’s no reason not to apply to any presitigious place merely because you don’t want to be guilty of “trophy hunting.” After all, somebody has to be admitted to these schools (at least until a few years fromnow whenadmission rates drop to 0%). And contrary to popular belief they do admit Asians. I think the Princeton Profile says 17% of the student body is Asian.</p>
<p>Of course I agree, they knew the long odds when they applied. Whether or not URM or legacy or whatever gets some sort of extra brownie point, the odds are stacked against everyone. They gave it a shot, it didn’t pan out and they should move on. I’m pretty sure they will.</p>
<p>Anyone watch the documentary Inside Job? A couple of those Ivys don’t come off too well.</p>
<p>The Ivy’s are not the be all, end all. There are so many really great schools out there, as many have pointed out here.</p>
<p>To the OP: Get over yourself. Seriously.</p>
<p>UChicago, Middlebury, Vanderbilt, Carleton, Rice… And you’re complaining? It “hurts”? Don’t be obnoxious.</p>
<p>It is possible, with all the reasons for selection, that many of the very best students end up at other universities.
It will not be to far down the road before the “sought after elite” group of schools includes many more universities.
AA and other politically correct motives for selecting one student over the other is pulling the prestige of these schools down.
The very best students are sometimes passed for the less qualified.
It will all work itself out in the end.
Only those who are psychologically invested in the Ivies will fail to recognize and move with the obvious.
The Ivies will always be sought after, but the list of universities listed in the same breathe will grow.
It already is.</p>