<p>firsttimemom, I had similar experience with my d about missing homework. D never missed any homework, she's the type that work through them religiously. So when the teacher said she knocked a few points off the test because d missed one homework, I sprung D into action. The teacher now must initialize D's sheet to acknowledge that d turns homework in every class. It works, no more missing homework accusations. However, I won't go into details why I think this teacher is at fault. Somehow teachers automatically assume kids are at fault. As for me, I really don't care about one or two extra points, but I do care when a teacher accuses my kid this and that and not even give kid(kids in general) the benefit of the doubt that it could also be the teacher's mistake.
For other posters, just because a school is competitive does not mean kids will learn more. D's best friend goes to a super competitive private school in the Bay area, this girl does not like to read and read just enough to satisfy school work, however she does well in class/test to maintain an A's average. While D loves to read. When I had lots of free time, I scouted every top high school website in California and searched for the required reading list for each school grade similar to D to find out the type of books kids her age are reading and checked them out of the public library so she can read. In middle school, on average she goes through about 10-20 books per week for just the sheer love of reading. This improves her reading speed and her vocabulary. For a reference point, in 7th grade, when she took the old SAT practice test for CTY, she only missed 1 question of the analogy section, which is the section most students have problem with. So if school does ease off on the competitiveness, kids have more time to do more things on their own time when they want to which is much more pleasure and fun for them. In the end they end up learning more and retain more. My 2 cents</p>
<p>Hilary, I think you've kind of answered your own questions in your last post. It all depends on your goals. If you don't want to go to an Ivy (or similar tiered school - I'm using Ivy loosely), then you don't have to take all of these courses. My dd decided that honors math was too tough, and the teachers agreed (in fact, they discouraged a lot of kids from taking 10th grade honors math), so she's in standard. That's OK.
But she understands the implications of dropping honors math. She's looking at schools other than HYPS. </p>
<p>The problem arises when students who didn't take all the honors courses freak out when they're told that they won't qualify for the Ivies or they get rejected and don't like their "safeties". Realize that all choices have consequences. If you can livve with the consequences, that's great. If not, reconsider your choices. If a kid is taking a course she really doesn't like because it'll look good on a top-tier application, and she doesn't want to go to a top-tier school, that's where stress comes in. If she does want to go to a top-tier school, or at least keep that option open, she'll realize that the course is a step on the journey to the goal, and it will be less stressful.</p>
<p>Keep the goal in mind, and you'll be OK.</p>
<p>"Remember, carbon under pressure becomes diamond. Carbon without pressure becomes ?"</p>
<p>The basis of all life ;-)</p>
<p><em>Sigh</em> pressure from my mother extends beyond the actual college process. Thank god Im done with that. Anyway, she actually is, in a sense, attempting to dictate my future.</p>
<p>She expects me to go into medicine. For years, I believed that I would pursue medicine; however, I lost the passion. It makes no sense for me to pursue something that rigorous if I will be miserable. I refuse to gratify other individuals at the expense of my own happiness. </p>
<p>I want to go into law and eventually politics. I would prefer to major in Political Science and Public Policy. However, my mother finds these majors ridiculuous and expects me to major in a science. I DONT WANT TO DO SCIENCES. She believes that I am being "lazy" when I tell her that. In addition, I have extended family who expect me to pursue medicine. I believe a lecture from them is inevitable. </p>
<p>Ugh...too much pressure at this age...</p>
<p>I was talking with H about this the other day.....My son's in a competitive private school now. He's only in 7th grade now, but we limit his activities during the week to ensure that he gets his schoolwork done.......It takes him 2-3 hours nightly....I watch the public school kids out playing after school ....and they've said to my son on occasion that he should go to school with them, that he'd have much more fun. But I know exactly where they'll be going to college, and so do they.....even at this young age....We figure that our son will have more options if we go this route.....but it does give us pause.... Fortunately, our son loves his school and seems pretty happy, though pretty burned out by this time of the year.</p>
<p>I absolutely agree with this quote: "'Remember, carbon under pressure becomes diamond. Carbon without pressure becomes ?'" </p>
<p>You know I agree with the original poster, but then on the other hand I don't agree. I agree because being in high school at my high school is full of stress, lots of it! But on the other hand, if there was no stress, then high school would be pointless. You know you don't HAVE to take the honors classes, and that is totally up to you! If you can't handle it, get out of the honors classes, and sports, and get over yourself. That is what college is for...for people who want to succeed in life! </p>
<p>I don't think that it is fair with having non-weighted GPAs. If you worked harder, then you should be rewarded.</p>
<p>dke:
[quote]
I was talking with H about this the other day.....My son's in a competitive private school now. He's only in 7th grade now, but we limit his activities during the week to ensure that he gets his schoolwork done.......It takes him 2-3 hours nightly....I watch the public school kids out playing after school ....and they've said to my son on occasion that he should go to school with them, that he'd have much more fun. But I know exactly where they'll be going to college, and so do they.....even at this young age....We figure that our son will have more options if we go this route.....but it does give us pause.... Fortunately, our son loves his school and seems pretty happy, though pretty burned out by this time of the year.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>he should NOT be burned out in 7th grade... good lord!
that is a problem.</p>
<p>also, last time i'm gonna say it: i am NOT AGAINST STRESS, I jsut posed the question: when is it TOO MUCH? and why are people who are passionate about something made to feel inferior to people who just take all APs and memorize facts? </p>
<p>and i wanted to say that it doesnt make someone a slacker if they dont take all APs, or if they dont go to an Ivy league, and ALSO you dont have to take ALL HONORS/APS to get into college. please read my really long response/update to my original post on page 3.</p>
<p>I don't agree with the 7th grader thing either. Middle school grades hardly matter, after all, in the long run. </p>
<p>This is somewhat off topic, but I think the ranking system at my school is a problem too, and though it's weighted GPA, I think it illustrates the problems of an unweighted GPA (people taking easy classes just for the rank). At my school, an A in a reg class is a 4.0, B 3.0, so on. In an Pre-AP (honor intro classes)/AP class, A is 5.0, B 4.0, and so on. This would be fine, except they only count 4 years of english, three years of math, three sciences (one physics, one bio, one chem), and two foreign languages. This obviously favors the eng types, because junior and senior english you would have to take AP to get a 5.0, but you would never have to take an AP science or math (just take three pre-AP ones). We currently have 10 valedictorians, but are all of them equal? Of course not. Some of them really challenged themselves, and some of them only took the required AP classes to get their 5.0.</p>
<p>No one said you had to take all honors/APs to get into college. Please re-read the responses to your posts. Nor are you a slacker if you didn't, or if you don't go to an Ivy. Maybe your "stress" has made you mis-read our intentions. </p>
<p>And no one can be "made to feel inferior". You cannot control what others say, but you can control your reactions to it. If you are happy with your decisions, and know the potential ramifications of those decisions, then why should you feel inferior? My dd loves to dance, but does not want to spend 20-25 hours in the studio. She knows that if she doesn't she'll never be a professional dancer. And she's fine with that. It would only be a problem if she decided not to spend the time in the studio, but then wanted to audition for ballet companies. Same with academics. If you can't stand the stress of these multiple AP classes, maybe the schools that require them aren't right for you. You need to make the choices that are right for you, understand the consequences, and ignore everyone else.</p>
<p>ranking is so stupid. we dont have it at my school and i'm SO glad. its so obnoxious because colleges set precedents and standards and say things like "we only accept top 10% ranked students" which is so ridiculous and sucks for people who happen to go to schools with tons of overachievers, so they may not be top-ranked, but are still much smarter than someone who may be in the top 5% at a less competitive school.</p>
<p>dke & ahobbitinside, where do you live? in the Bay Area & OC that is not stressed. I know D studied much harder at 6th grade(till 10:30 P.M sometimes) and her friend studied even harder(12P.M), d's friend only has 5 hours sleep on top(yes, middle school) and this is being going on for years. I think studied more than 3-4 hours are the norm for these kids and they are not super top students by any stretch and means. The school population is 90%(Bay Area)and 50%(OC) Asians respectively.
I know when D in 6th grade she had one activity per day, swimming, soccer, basketball, chess, girl scout, and so is her best friend, a very good athele on all sports, what I mean is they are not book worms, they do have activities for fun, that if you call these organized activities fun. However, they both did not get to watch TV, but they do play games online.</p>
<p>I think the pressure on a middle school child is preposterous. Now, I am not telling you that you are doing anything wrong, but you should let him play with his friends once in a while. The work ethic formed in middle school helps to set the foundation for the high school years, which are obviously more important. But he should be allowed to join the activities he wants to do. I am currently a high school junior, and when I was in middle school I was an active member of my Student Government (VP), math club, band member, and did community service. I also balanced my 6 day a week swim team and Girl Scouts outside of school. Even with all of this, I was the valedictorian of my class. The best part of this was the fact that I never even knew that they had given us rankings. I did all of the work for myself. My parents have never been ones to push me to succeed. Pressures from parents will only lead to additional stress that will push a child overboard.</p>
<p>Secondly, it is even more outrageous for the middle school girl in SusieQ's response to only have 5 hours of sleep. I now currently take 3AP courses as a Junior, and often only have 5 hours of sleep myself. It is unhealthy and I would not recommend it. However, this behavior only began this year. Yet I have continued to keep up my academics, not #1 but near the top, and all of my ECs. This is because I could not bring myself to quit Scouts, Student Government, or my passion for swimming. If this girl is getting only 5 hours of sleep now, she will have to start limiting her ECs in order to maintain a healthy sleeping lifestyle.</p>
<p>I guess sooner or later all of this pressure will surely make me form into a diamond. :)</p>
<p>mish<em>the</em>fish, I agree with you about the 5 hours sleep, but I just want to say 2-3 hours of studying in some areas is not considered stressed. I think in this case, d's friend had to commute early to a presigious private school that is 30-45 minutes away, eat breakfast on the way, stayed late to do sports, etc...
The activities that D signed up were her choices, I only made sure she sticked with it until she's old enough to say she did not want it any more. I didn't want a quitter, she had been doing these activities for at least 5-6 years. She is now in HS and no longer doing these activities, except for water polo and one other club, and that is fine with me. However, these activities helped her hone her skill with time management. She's excellent at time management. My husband and I used to feel the bad for her, but she's somewhat driven(not totally driven) and organized because she was still awake when we're already gone to bed for several hours.(the latest she's allowed to stay is 10:30 P.M) However, she's been self-driven since 3rd grade, we never had to help her nor force her to study.
In fact, because off this I did complain to the principal about this 6th grade teacher give to much homework, a lot of memorization, needless to say he is no longer teaching there. However, a lot of parents like this 6th grade teacher and he thinks he's God's gift to the student/parent or somekind of teaching legend.</p>
<p>I'm not highjacking this thread, but there were a couple of questions asked of me so I'll answer them....we're relocated New Yorkers in Florida now...our kids' school is a 45min.. bus ride into the city which accounts for the long day...they don't get home til 5pm......sports are built into the school day with rec soccer twice a week on top of that.. I'm not concerned about middle school grades for college, but the situation here is that you have to get the kids in to this school in when they're in middle school because there isn't availability in high school...I did complain to the headmaster about all the work, and he said my son needed to work on time management....Happy Mother's Day!!</p>
<p>I can't believe that some of you seem to think that the only choices are being a top Ivy-level student vs. being an uneducated hick.</p>
<p>Not vying for an Ivy-level college does NOT mean giving up on education. What's wrong with top students who sit back, relax, take only 2 APs per year instead of 5, and are satisfied to be in the top 10% of the class instead of the top 1%?</p>
<p>Hi Andi, I'm pretty sure I go to your high school. We recently got a new principal right?</p>
<p>I think mental state of students is extremely important. Some students just can't do the whole shebang for one reason or another. I used to be confidently aiming for the Ivies; now I am aiming for Umass Amherst as a match. With my predicted stats based on 1340 SAT in 8th grade/3.4 current GPA I could probably get into a school like Boston University, but i don't want to attend.</p>
<p>School is really about commitment, and commitment is about your drive.
Drive is completely based in thoughts and feelings which are transient and unpredictable.
I think it's a much better plan to walk the "middle path" and do what would be average for you yourself (like jhsu said...take APs, but not five).
You will end up in a place, I think, where you have many possibilities open (like state U) and if you wanted to be a lawyer, you could still do so fine, even though it would take more work to get into a top law school.<br>
This seems much better than overworking yourself into an Ivy league college because there is always the possibility that your motivation and drive will collapse. I think the highest form of conceit is security in drive and motivation, like: "I love chemisty! I will always love chemistry." In a state school, since classes are easier, it's possible to coast through on minimal work and still do okay if you are going through a tough spot, but there is just NO margin for error (it seems) in top schools.
I know this doesn't make much sense but I hope some of you understand my meaning.</p>
<p>Great topic and something I think about all the time. It shouldn't be all or nothing thinking, as if the only college options are the Ivy League or your local community college. Top job with Fortune 500 company or working the drive-thru at McDonald's. There's a world of middle ground. Balance is healthy. I'm not going to stand over my kids and beat them up mentally if they choose to opt out of part of the gerbil wheel of college admissions. I choose to work part-time, because I need balance between family responsibilities, work, and my personal happiness. I don't think I'm less of a diamond for not taking the most pressured path in life.</p>
<p>Now, obviously, I wouldn't want my children to close doors for themselves. Academics come first, and I expect good efforts to be made. I hope their EC's will be for fun, fitness, service, with an eye to social experiences, not for the purpose of college app's. They're not going to be nationally ranked in anything. That would be nice, but I'll be overjoyed to raise open, emotionally healthy kids.</p>
<p>I don't think of my school district as particularly competitive but the pressure definitely starts in middle school. You have to have the grades and teacher recs to get into the honors classes in high school. My daughter is one of the top math students and she enjoys the competition in that class. It's a good feeling to know you're good at something. So far, that's been motivation enough. If some kids are able to maintain that level of enjoyment in competition in all classes, good for them. I don't know that opting out of APs in the subjects you're not as interested in slams doors at all top schools though. We've seen the posts from kids with 12 APs and perfect scores who didn't get in, and wondered why so and so with less APs and lower scores got in. Perhaps the latter kids had better defined passion and knew themselves better and the adcoms could smell that out, over the kid who just seemed like a machine. </p>
<p>I think the most important thing for a parent is to pay attention to your kid. Some kids can thrive on full throttle competition, but not all. These are tough years and the lottery schools are not worth the depression that can set in for some kids. There are good college experiences out there for the kids who are less than perfect. It doesn't have to mean a career in fast-food if you take a few less APs.</p>
<p>I think the school I go to has the right idea when it comes to ranking-</p>
<p>There is no class rank. There is no GPA- weighted or unweighted. What the school does is simply send all of your grades to colleges, and with that they send a grade distribution chart from junior year of all the kids in your graduating class. The colleges can see who's taking the hardest classes and who's not, and they can tell more or less how difficult the classes you're taking are. But there's no competition over being the valedictorian/top 5%/top 10%/pumping up your GPA, because, well, we don't have them.</p>
<p>That's what I hate about high school. Very few people take classes because they want to. They take classes because they have to. I think the best thing to do is just try and enjoy everything you do. If there's an effort to enjoy what you're learning, you will enjoy it.</p>
<p>I'm also a junior in high school, and contrary to many of my fellow classmates, I love my classes (even the one taught by an awful teacher just because the subject matter is intriguing). I take honors and AP classes because its a challenge and they fulfill my desire to learn the material more in depth. In my freshman year, I don't think it was like that. I took honors classes because that was what everyone was taking. That mind theory is AWFUL. I kind of agree with glowingamy, trying to do stuff that doesn't fit you might get you in the wrong place. That doesn't mean, don't try hard. That means find the classes that intrigue you regardless of their level of academic prestige. </p>
<p>High school is fun. I love it. I love my ECs (mainly because I persued them on my own). So it is possible for someone to take honors and APs and love their high school experience.</p>
<p>I think if a student is not strong in a certain subject, he/she should not take AP in that subject. I would not advise my d to take AP Physics and may stop at just Honors Chemistry instead of Honors Chemistry then AP Chemistry route. But I'm waiting to see how well she performs in APUSH before sign her up for more APs.
On the other hand if d did not get a chance to take the following courses in HS: speech, debate, philosophy, etc.. she can still take them in college. In fact, it may be easier to get good grade and learn more in college as general education requirements as in HS.</p>