Strong linguistics schools?

College Search & Selection
41

Isn’t Utrecht very selective? OP states that high school was a long time ago, and that he didn’t do very well there, because he wasn’t a serious student.

One of the benefits of going to school in the Netherlands, rather than the US, is that the student population would be very diverse, linguistically. Yes, one can find native speakers or heritage speakers of Spanish, Mandarin, Urdu, and Hindi quite easily at most large US universities, but I’d say that there are probably more speakers of African languages and European languages at a university in the Netherlands, and in the general population. So if this student’s “grand project” would benefit from testing on persons from diverse language backgrounds, Netherlands would be better than almost anyplace in the US, and certainly better than most of the financially within reach flagship state schools in the US.

42

Fair point- Utrecht was an example, b/c I happen to know somebody doing linguistics through English there, but there are other programs that teach through English scattered about.

Also, the OP will be a non-traditional applicant anywhere, and applying with just an ACT score is going to be problematic everywhere. Given that the OP is planning not to apply until next year, taking some university-level classes (though not enough to trigger transfer status) (even if through accredited online places) would be a good step to getting academic muscles back in gear, and demonstrating the ability to handle third level academic work.

43

If your savings are sufficient to live comfortably for the remainder of your life in your home country, are you sure that college in the US is the best option to achieve your goals? Have you gauged potential interest in this project of yours? How would you feel if you burn through your savings and get a college degree in the U.S., but still don’t have a group of people who are interested in your project?

There has been a lot of international teamwork that has occurred via Zoom, with little to no in-person interactions. You could take linguistics classes at a university in your home country (presumably much cheaper than in the U.S.) or self-study on the subject. Reach out to professors whose research interests would seem to support this project. Perhaps they’d be interested in joining in, or maybe they know of students (undergrad or grad) who would be interested in the project. Then start working on the project from there. If many of the students/professors are at the same university, then maybe in the future you might get letters of recs from those professors and apply to that college for study. But that might never be needed.

I would give serious thought to the feasibility of the project and having it garner enough interest from others before moving forward on a proposal that could change the entire financial trajectory of my life (i.e. going from never needing to work again to having to start over from scratch).

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44

Comments that are out-of-the-box and specific like this is a godsend. My appreciation. Utrecht is now on my list. The reasons I haven’t paid much attention to Europe are: 1/ their application process is more fragmented than US - I don’t know if SAT or ACT works there 2/ not many programs in English, fewer for linguistics 3/ only about half of the colleges have decent working English websites and 4/ I’m overwhelmed already with info just studying the US. Therefore, advice from you guys is the only source I can hope for regarding Europe ::

That’s an interesting point!

After contemplating for a long time, I became pretty sure it’s the best option. In this world of ours, a good idea and some talent are just not enough. One needs an environment and some title to do stuff, especially if it’s big.

The majority of people I’ve shared this with think it’s nice, but are scared by the magnitude of it. They have other things to do and can’t commit. Not to mention my country is an eastern one where, culturally, people tend to think small and don’t like to stick out. I’m willing to hazard a guess that in nations like the US, the attitude will be different.

By then things are not totally bleak, because I already have a title. Given some more years, after a MA and maybe a PhD, if I still don’t have a firm foothold for the project, then I’ll reconsider. At least I’ve tried my best for the world, and did it my way. But by that time, chances are my way of thinking will be different - I could be depressed by the failure, or I could pursue another dream, I could’ve found great friends, or I could just use my diplomas to do a regular job and live like that till the end. It’s hard to tell.

But there’s 1 thing I’m sure of, that is Zoom or any internet-facilitated things will never, ever be as good and efficient as real interactions. They could be worse by orders of magnitude. That’s why the success rate of online dating is lower than face-to-face encounters, and why students were complaining so loudly about online learning in the college reviews I looked at. Going the route you suggested would take dozens of years. There are thousands of linguistics professors in the US alone, and their research is not always perfectly listed on the internet. I won’t, in my lifetime, be able to scan it to find out who to reach out. Not to mention I’ll need to work with people in international studies, computer science, psychology, neuroscience, anthropology, to name a few. In contrast with being an actual student: I can visit a professor in his office and say “here’s my project. Could you think of somebody who…?” He will come up with leads that I can expand very quickly - nobody can deny his current student, meanwhile everyone can just ignore an email from a stranger from the other side of the globe. I can go on and on with other circumstances, but the point is: I need to start big. Building a decent snowball fast is a world better than taking it easy with some flakes, even if it means spending an arm and a leg to get the equipment. Especially for huge projects: they’re like planes, whose flights are most difficult during take-offs.

45

You don’t need to look at all linguistics’ professors.

Run the Net Price Calculator at Harvard, Yale, MIT, & Dartmouth. See what price it spits out and see what you think of that number. If that number is workable for you, then look at the linguistics departments for those schools. Look at those faculty and see if there’s anyone whose interests might align with your project. Reach out to them. If you get a response, discuss your ideas and get a sense from them about the feasibility of getting interdepartmental support for this project. If they think it’s feasible, then talk to them more (and other related departments/faculty that the your original contact recommended) and see about getting letters of recommendation from them for your application to their institution. With multiple letters of support from the institution’s faculty, then maybe you might get accepted. Harvard, Yale, MIT, & Dartmouth are the only four institutions with linguistics majors that meet full need of international students and are need blind. Double-check Princeton & Amherst to see if they have something similar to linguistics that would work for you; it does not appear that they have linguistics majors, but they are need-blind for and meet full need of international students.

If you don’t get any bites from a faculty member at Harvard/Yale/MIT/Dartmouth, then you’re unlikely to get any bites. Maybe things have changed since I was in college back in the Pleistocene, but linguistics faculty weren’t getting tons of emails from people interested in their subject matter. If you go in with specific questions that are pertinent to that person’s field of interest (find an article of theirs that’s appropriate and quote it, if possible), you are highly likely to get a response. Maybe the response will be everything favorable you hope for. Maybe the response will be that the chances of the project getting off the ground at their university is very small. But that is the environment you’re hoping to be at, so might as well see if it’s likely to happen before you invest significantly more time, effort, and money into it.

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46

There is a phrase in English - Beggars can’t be choosers. Unfortunately, you are a ‘beggar.’ You need the school to be a financial match before it can be the perfect school with the perfect professors and the perfect opportunity to do research and your project.

You should concentrate on which schools will fund your studies, not your research. It doesn’t do any good to get into the perfect school if you can’t afford it.

I’d worry less about the cost of clothing and the weather at the school and more about the finances and then, the academic opportunities. My kids went to schools that weren’t ranked the highest, didn’t have all the things they wanted, but they were affordable and they made them work. One even is in grad school at her undergrad school because she made that school work, made connections with the professors, and (most important) she got funding for her masters. Still not the perfect school, still not a school ranked in the top 10, but she couldn’t get into one of those and she couldn’t have afforded it (even with lots and lot of loans) if she did.

Find the schools you can afford and apply. From those offers, pick the one with the program you like the best. Honestly, I don’t think you’ll get the best offer from a top school. You may get much more money, and live much cheaper in a lesser known school. Carroll College in Montana, U of Wyoming, one of the little LACs in South Carolina. You might not get full funding but the cost of living is much lower.

I don’t know how schools evaluate non-traditional students for the ACT/SAT. Those tests are designed for 16 year olds. I don’t know if it is impressive if an older student gets a perfect score. I suspect they look more at your grades, letters of rec, and your essays or statements of why that college is a match for you.

If you were a woman, I’d say look at Smith College as it has a program for non-traditional students and has an application set up to consider ‘life experience’ as well as scores and grades. If anyone knows of a similar program for men, maybe they can post about it.

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47

That’s a well-thought-out way, thanks! I had already sent emails to faculty of all those schools - those who I thought would be interested, but didn’t dig deep into each one’s research. Will do that soon.
Princeton have a linguistics minor, but they also have what’s called self-declared major, so theoretically I can do it just as well. The big problem is that Princeton requires a graded essay from school (and in English).
Amherst doesn’t have linguistics, but I can cross-learn courses at UMassA, which numbers 2 in the nation regarding linguistics. The 5C consortium also offers International Relations, which recently has gained importance in my eyes - I need to really understand the world if this project is to work.

Yeah, it’s a bit unfortunate that there are some prestigious women-only colleges, while there are none men-only. And sure, I’m trying to find only colleges that I can afford. So far, they include meet-full-need ones and cheap-tuition ones. Also I try to limit my search to top-300 colleges, for reasons mentioned earlier.

48

It’s good that you are already reaching out to faculty. Have you gotten much response from them?

49

It is not difficult to find those profs whose current research interests dovetail with your ideas. PhD students did this all the time before the advent of the internet, before computerized databases of publications, by sitting in a comprehensive library and combing through years and years of journals. Nowadays, with the internet, all one has to do is google the specific topic of interest, and tons of references will pop up.

The reason that there are virtually no “men-only” schools at this point (except for a few conservative religious seminaries) is that men are not a group that has been historically denied access to education, discriminated against in the educational institution, nor were they assigned primary responsibility for rearing children in the home, thus interfering with access to education.

The reality is that it is extremely unlikely that any school that meets full need for int’l students is going to accept you - you are older, you don’t have an outstanding high school transcript, and even if you did, it would be ancient history, and you have no extraordinarily impressive current achievement that would sway them to do otherwise. Applications to these institutions would be a waste of time and money.

You’ve been given a number of excellent suggestions for less expensive state universities with the resources that you seek (other than an extraordinarily prestigious name), that might take a chance on you, might even award you some merit money, plus you’ve been given the idea of trying the Netherlands. I suggest that you focus on them.

Another idea. Many state institutions offer in-state rate tuition to anyone, for summer classes. Why not come to the US for the summer, this summer, to take two summer classes at a state U that is offering intro to Linguistics and another class, perhaps Sociolinguistics if they are offered sequentially, and if not, perhaps intro to Comp Sci or intro to Data Science, or a math class if you’re not ready for those two, or any other intro level class that is relevant to what you want to do? It would give you a chance to see how things go for you in college level classes, plus it would establish that you can still do very well academically, would definitely support your applications for the fall '23. You could also do some traveling afterwards in the US, visit some of the campuses of schools that you are interested in, even possibly speak with some professors. It would probably cost you about 10K, what with travel, dorm, and tuition for two classes, but even if you were to decide that this is not what you want, you will have had a highly enriching experience, and had the opportunity to travel within the US. You’d have to hurry - most schools are starting summer school soon, some within the next couple of weeks. If you were to need a student visa, it would be impossible for this summer. Maybe Netherlands for this summer, if the visa application process is quicker? Or if such classes are offered within your country, maybe taking summer classes at home this summer? Anything that you can do to establish some evidence of current academic ability can only help you.

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50

While Dartmouth does meet 100% demonstrated need, it is not need-blind for international students. Since Op is a non-traditional student, s/he may be better served looking at schools that have programs for adult learners.

51

Dartmouth has expanded its need blind policy to international students.

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52

thank you

53

Some of them have answered. A few pointed me to colleagues that have something to do with such and such. Frankly, judging by the way you laid in that post and how naively I contacted them, I was a bit surprised I got replies. Will have to really dig in their research if I want to properly talk with them, but I’m having my plates full right now. Damn.

Holy crow, now that’s brainstorming! Thank you, it never occurred to me! I’ll need to contact visa service ASAP. In the mean time, could you help me a bit more by narrowing the candidate colleges that offer such summer classes that qualify the criteria you mentioned?

54

Any college would take you in the summer, and for lower than usual tuition, plus many public colleges are in state tuition for everyone in the summer. I suggest that you look into the summer offerings by the many state universities strong in linguistics that i mentioned upstream, preferably in areas that aren’t too expensive to get a sublet.

Intro to Ling is being taught online this summer by the chair of ling at Harvard. I think it would cost 3500K. It’s a small class, and not that many are registered for it yet. I don’t know anything about how he is as a teacher. He is not a sociolinguist - he’s a phonologist. You could take this without traveling here. I just don’t see how you could get a student visa in time for summer school this year. A lot of schools are starting their summer semester next week! DCE Course Search

I’m under the impression that tuition for a summer class could be as little as $1500/3 credit class at a state U that is offering in-state tuition to non-residents in the summer.

I have to tell you that Harvard summer school is taught through their School of Continuing Education, which is COMPLETELY separate from Harvard College, BUT this class is approved for Harvard College credit for Harvard students, it’s being taught by Harvard faculty. If you can distinguish yourself and get an A and more importantly, get a recommendation from this man, it would greatly help your applications.

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55

I’ve taken some looks at the more desirable colleges on my list. It’s always the situation: only a few offer suitable 1xx-level ling courses, and then among them, every single one requires visiting international students to sign up early - the deadlines were around a week ago. I infer that this is the situation for all colleges during the pandemic era. That said, I’d always prefer a chance to visit the US and physically attend a college and tour some campuses, over doing things on Zoom.

Thank you @parentologist for the valuable link! ATM it’s the best option I can find. Even though online connection will reduce the clarity of his nuanced pronunciation - him being a phonologist after all - I’d gain some experience to judge the workload at Harvard and Ivies in general. Until now, my impression of their admission department is… cold, and not welcoming. Don’t know if it’s because of their workload or prestigious attitude, or the combination of both.

56

Which isn’t actually a legal thing to do. If you are working, you are supposed to declare your income on U.S. tax returns and pay taxes. And the employer is expected to pay what they are supposed to pay as well.

And I know I’m late to this thread…but upstream there is a list of colleges to consider that include UCs and Cal States. The CA publics give precious little merit aid and NO need based aid to folks who aren’t residents of CA. Unless you can pay the full cost of attendance or close to it, I would delete those from consideration.

57

This used to be easier to do. Back in the olden days, waiters and bartenders went home with pockets full of cash each night and didn’t report it as income. There were also a lot more restaurants that hired without checking documentation. That just doesn’t happen anymore. Tips are paid on paychecks (my daughter works at Starbucks and rarely gets cash tips). Most employers use verification companies to check out those SSN and visas. My brother works in construction and every single employee on the site has the right paperwork to work.

Just not a good plan.

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58

Yep, I heeded that advice and ignore all CA public schools a few days after opening this thread.

BTW, what do you all think of the University of Rochester? On the surface, it fits many of my criteria (not just in this thread). But I can gather little info about the strength of UofR’s ling department, and the uni deliberately makes obtaining CDS harder (my request is left unanswered for more than 10 days now), which I feel as somewhat a red flag. Maybe UofR’s trying to hide the fact of it going down or something?

59

Rochester doesn’t always publish a full CDS. They might give you some data requested (contact the institutional reporting dept, not admissions), or they might not.

Have you contacted any of the linguistics profs?

I assure you URochester is not in decline. But, it’s unlikely to be affordable for you. I’m not saying don’t apply, but just know they don’t need full need.

60

Not answering an email request for the CDS for 10 days is not necessarily “deliberately” making it harder, or “trying to hide” anything. They provide it online: (https://www.rochester.edu/provost/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/CDS_2020-2021-C.pdf)

and you apparently just want them to do the work for you rather than get it for yourself. Admin offices- esp at graduation time, when they are madly getting records finished for all the students scheduled to graduate - actually do have other things to do.

I came on here to suggest that you look at programs for non-traditional students. Since you seem to feel that you “should” be at a tippy-top, go look at the programs offered by tippy-tops. For example

Harvard: Bachelor of Liberal Arts Degree Program | Harvard Extension School

Columbia: About the School of General Studies | School of General Studies

Yale: https://admissions.yale.edu/eli-whitney

There are more- but you should do some actual homework yourself not just crowdsource it.

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