Sure, and they responded within the day, which is impressive. I got the student:faculty ratio for that major. And it’s great to know that UofR is at least doing as usual. Did you study/work there?
Huh? I read on their site that “We are committed to meeting the full demonstrated need of all admitted students.” Maybe that’s a change that happened recently?
Most schools have a list of CDSs by year, all open and ready for download. In the case of UofR, the most recent CDS is broken down into sections, which require ten times more downloads. And well, I’m aware that depts must be busy, but when they don’t provide what should be transparent (in this case, I want the 15-16 CDS), I have no choice but to ask. Their reporting dept states on their site that all requests will get replied in 5-10 days, so >10 days is definitely an abnormality.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like Rochester, but I’m also free to put up theories when there are signs pointing toward some way. I didn’t jump to a conclusion, though. (And I did do the homework of downloading the 20-21 parts piecemeal and combining them using software, long before writing on here)
Actually, that was the very first thing I did when I heard about US schools’ generous aid scheme last November. I did - hastily and rushed, though - apply to Columbia GS, Yale EW, and even Brown RUE (Harvard was passed because its FA is bad). What I learned from the endeavor? Those programs have even fiercer competition than the common way. What’s more, it seems that the whole class is small anyway, and these students identify themselves as different from the younglings, thus limiting contact. That goes against my 2nd biggest goal of going to college: making connections. Thus I decided that this year I’ll focus on the more popular route.
I’ve never used any phrases that resemble tippy-top. Perhaps you were mistaking me with some high-profile account around here? At best, I found myself looking at T300:
Rochester is need aware - as their website says, Due to limited resources, only a small number of international applicants will qualify for need-based financial aid from the University.
It doesn’t mean not to apply - but it means to not count on them - but that’s why you apply to many a school.
Rochester has a large international student population so they welcome a diverse student body.
It does look like they do meet full need for arts and sciences students (not Eastman, at least per the CDS). The issue can be how they calculate ‘full need’…their proprietary formula isn’t as generous as some other schools. (This is why students may get different NPC estimates between schools, sometimes tens of thousands of dollars different).
And yes, as tsbna says, because they are need aware of internationals, full pay students have an admissions advantage at Rochester.
Just checking that you know that “full demonstrated need” does NOT mean that they will give you aid so that you pay what you think you can afford. What it means is that they give you aid so that you pay what they think you can afford. Many times what they think you can afford is not actually affordable.
That’s another thing that I like in UofR, too. Aside from the fact that they aren’t too biased against foreigners, having a bigger number of intl also means there are many native languages on campus, which makes things easier should I choose to dive into that part of linguistics research.
I get your whole idea, yet still wonder what NPC is And yes, with an aid of ~49k it’s below average for a uni of its reputation. But assuming I get exactly that, when combined with my max yearly budget of ~27k it turns out to be just enough!
No.
Yes, I know. It’s been drilled on me a few times. The way I see it, most of the circumstances where AO demands more than a student’s capacity are when their family has ‘hidden’ or uncommitted assets. In my case, a major part of my savings has been converted to bank accounts and stocks - good liquidity, ready to be spent on college. It’s like, clear as day. I have trouble imagining AO requiring a number larger than my total wealth because, well, where & how would they get that number?
Um, welcome to college financial aid. Many, many many colleges give $X amount in FA and expect you to come up with the rest of it. US citizens can borrow the rest, earn some as they go, take longer to finish school by taking fewer classes each semester. International students don’t have all those options, but that’s not really the school’s problem.
My kids had less in their (and my) bank accounts than their schools expected them to pay. It would not be unusual in a case like yours for the schools to expect you to pay more than 50% of your savings in year one and two. That puts you in a bind for years 3 and 4.
And the AO office may have no access to your finances. The AO admits you, the FA office then decides what you must pay. Often they don’t speak to each other.
Well, I meant FAO in the earlier post. If what you mentioned is the case, then they violate their own words of “committed to meet full need for all admitted students”. But I can see that even then, who am I to complain, an individual without a say against big institution? So while I’ll still follow this strategy, I’ll reserve my expectation regarding FA in case it turn south.
No. The issue is, they determine what your “full need” is. That may not be your actual full need, in which case you have to come up with the difference.
Ugh… I think now it has gotten through my thick skull. Lip service, isn’t it? I guess there must be numerous lawsuits regarding this… discrepancy between many families and colleges, this being America?
I don’t think it’s just lip service. I believe they do actually meet need for a lot of students, especially those with lower income/fewer assets. But when you have a higher level of savings and assets or multiple income streams, divorced parents, etc that’s where it gets complicated and there can be a disconnect between what the college thinks a student can pay and what the student can actually afford.
This is circular: “meet full need for all admitted students” bumps right into “need aware for international students”. OP is an older (30ish) non-traditional student, so parent resources will not be considered. With all of the OP’s finances being “clear as day”, assuming that the admissions office says ‘yes, we want OP’ (not a given, obviously), then the financial aid office will figure out how much aid is required. Assuming the OP’s estimate of $49K is on target, admissions will then balance out whether to offer admission and a $200K commitment to the OP, or deny admission.
Hi Stefen - i’ve never heard of a lawsuit against a college based on need/grants.
think of college in the US like a pyramid. the majority of the kids go to state sponsored and public schools that do not meet need. The schools are very transparent on costs; they cost less than private schools for the most part; and some offer merit based scholarships.
our family did not look at full meet needs schools for our kids. What they said we could afford - we could not. If we had one kid - maybe. But to maintain that amount for 4 kids - no way. Our kids have all been successful with state school education. No lawsuits over this.
In order to sue someone you need standing (I can’t sue McDonald’s for burning myself on their coffee if I didn’t actually order coffee at McDonald’s) AND you need to have been harmed in some way. If my kid applies to NYU and we can’t afford it after reviewing their financial aid package-- how is my kid harmed? We turn down NYU’s offer and move on.
I think you need to really do a deep dive into what financial aid in the US means. You aren’t grasping it at all. Just because you have $100,000 saved you think schools will divide it over the course of the program and supplement the rest, but it is highly unlikely that’s what they will do. For instance, they may expect full pay in the first year, given that you haven enough savings to cover it. Your savings could be totally depleted by the second year, depending on the school.
There are not mass lawsuits. It isn’t lip service. The reality is that there is a calculation that is standard for everyone because it considers the same factors. The result of the calculation isn’t always something that every student can accept, though.
Stefan, you continue to open threads trying to crack a code.
You wonder where you can afford? That’s school dependent. And Intl students are often reviewed differently. Where they aren’t, then you fall into the category of how a school sees your transcript and financial situation.
You wonder why some profs or admission don’t write back ? They are human. Many are over burdened. Not all care like brochures show. Many don’t interact with those they aren’t required to. Many may find you not real and don’t want to be scammed. They are human. It could be anything.
You wonder why admit rates are lower ? It could be geography, strength of student, or ability to pay at need aware schools.
It seems like you will just continue to open threads without getting to the point.
You need a school to apply to. You want to afford it. Apply to a school with auto merit meaning if you meet the requirements, you are then guaranteed a specific discount such as this school below. I’m sure there are others. This one has just a minor but perhaps you can combine with another major since you have various interests. And it’s just a ‘safety’ app…you can chase your list but a school like this might offer a just in case the others don’t work. Again there are others that have auto merit as well.
But I do think you are spinning wheels. You can’t remake the system. These are businesses. Their processes and policies will be what you have to adhere to in regards to admission and affordability.
After all, it’s most important what you study, not where.
Now that you have a better understanding of U.S. financial aid, perhaps you might want to reread my post #43 and post #34.
Also, just a couple of hours ago, someone posted this in the HS Class of 2023 thread (NPC is Net Price Calculator, located on all college’s websites). This is an illustration of how different colleges can take the same financial information and determine what they think a student can contribute.
Financial aid is a year by year thing too. Some schools will promise to give the same aid for 4 years IF THINGS DON’T CHANGE, but they do require you to reapply year after year. They also expect you will work and earn money during the 4 years. That is harder for international students but not impossible.
My daughter had many international students at her school. Some were rich, some had grants from their home countries, some lived very cheaply. They didn’t just arrive and expect to be housed, fed, and educated for 4 years. They had a different path than US students. It was an engineering school so many of the internships and co-ops weren’t available to them (must be a US citizen for many government jobs). Some went back to their countries for the summer and worked.
You have received a lot of information in your many posts. Start applying to the schools you think best match your needs and go from there. Most of the schools are going to require a lot of paperwork from you that will take a while to gather. Look into the visa requirements and gather the paperwork for the visa. Work and earn more money.
OP, where does your list of schools stand? What non-US schools are on your list? Do you have an affordable safety or two?
When considering US schools I just don’t see the experience at Colgate (to take one example), a relatively small, isolated college, being tenable for a 35 year old adult enrolling as a freshman.
Beyond the low international acceptance rates for students needing financial aid at US colleges, admissions people will also consider your age, background, and ‘fit’ within their community. You should also think about where the best fit would be for you, beyond the academics and finances.
May I suggest, perhaps OP needs to re-think his whole plan?
@StefenLong, I don’t see the value of simply doing an undergraduate degree for what you’re looking to achieve (the big linguistics project you envision). You need to follow up with a PhD, so that’s at least 8-9 years total. You’ll be in your mid 40s by then and have given up prime working years, towards a goal that (let’s be honest) may not actually materialize or have the impact/value you percieve. Maybe this would be ok for someone who’s independently wealthy and merely pursuing a passion project but that does not seem to be the case for you.
So… take a step back and rethink. Is this really the best path for you?
There are other ways to gain the knowledge and connections you desire.
And yes, with an aid of ~49k it’s below average for a uni of its reputation. But assuming I get exactly that, when combined with my max yearly budget of ~27k it turns out to be just enough!