<p>my parents are both immmigrants, so they come with all of that hard work mentality you see alot. my dad is pretty much stuck on the ivy's and that whole brand name top tier deal, but i'm in love with pomona, which is this great school but not extremely well known. i know that, if i were lucky enough to get an acceptance from pomona and any other school out there, i would pick pomona hands down.</p>
<p>basically, how do i get him to see things my way, seeing as how he refuses to help pay for my education unless he likes my choice?</p>
<p>I’m in the same situation as you. I would really like to attend WashU or Northwestern but my parents are not paying for me unless I go to the ivies or Rice (staying in town). I would like to know more about this too.</p>
<p>There’s a reason they want you to go to the Ivies: They’re better. Apply to all of them, as well as Pomona, and if you get rejected from everywhere better than Pomona, they’ll change their views. You have to show them you tried.</p>
<p>First let me just say that all parents of teenagers are automatically “dumb” but I’ll try. You have to sell him on Pomona and up the reputation with some spin. On the Wikipedia for these colleges is a famous alumni and other accomplishments. Find successful alumni in the major you are purseuing and argue that agaist the Ivy alumni in your major. Keep it recent as technology changes the meaning of success. Next pull the list of faculty on each of the major areas of your interest at Pomona and compare them to the faculty at the Ivy’s. Spin that information. Find stats that show how many profs actually teach the class vs assistants.
Spin in your favor always and ignore trying to put down the ivy’s. Just like in political ads save the NEGATIVE spin for the last minute emotional decision (that is after the acceptance letters arrive),
Good Luck</p>
<p>The ‘hard work mentality’ is a good one. While I don’t agree that the Ivies are necessarily better than certain other colleges for particular circumstances, you could follow the advice to apply to all of them plus Pomona. Of course, all Ivies should be considered reaches for everyone and Pomona isn’t the easiest to get into either so you should make sure you apply to some matches and safeties as well. </p>
<p>Also, you might need to educate your parents on the college system in the USA - how it doesn’t boil down to the few Ivies versus failure, and how that even with hard work and great grades, etc. one isn’t assured an acceptance to an Ivy.</p>
<p>overstressed: I can see how you came up with your moniker if that’s your parents’ attitude. Any parent who takes the attitude that they’ll only pay for an Ivy has an unrealistic understanding of the college system. What if you don’t get accepted to any of them (a real possibility for anyone)? Do your parents really think you’re better off with no education if you don’t get an Ivy education.</p>
<p>Your parents probably share this view, and it’s only because they are ignorant. Have you tried talking to them about Pomona? Show them literature about the school, explaining why you think it is a good fit for you and why you believe going to Pomona will help you succeed in the future. Try showing them the admissions statistics for the school. They might be impressed and intrigued. Here’s a few things you can show them:</p>
<p>SAT scores of people admitted to Pomona: Middle 50% of accepted students had SAT Verbal scores ranging 690-760 and SAT Math scores ranging 680-760. To compare, the ranges for Harvard, Stanford, and Duke respectively are 690-800/700-790, 660-760/680-780, and 690-770/690-780.</p>
<p>Selectivity of Pomona admissions: 18% admitted, compared to UPenn’s 18%, Stanford’s 11%, Cornell’s 25%, MIT’s 13%, Dartmouth’s 16%, Duke’s 21%, and Brown’s 14%.</p>
<p>If that doesn’t persuade them (the last link should), compromise. I think you should definitely apply to all the Ivies/other schools they want you to apply to. There’s no guarantee you’ll get into any Ivies (or even Pomona for that matter) so there’s no point arguing over nothing. Once you do get in, convince your parents to do college visits with you, so that they can see how great Pomona is firsthand. Or, ask people at Pomona to help you convince your parents to let you take the offer of admission. Finally, if they won’t let you go to Pomona, consider attending a similar school that your parents approve of, or a completely different school that you think you could be happy at. You can’t always go to your first choice but it doesn’t mean you won’t be happy.</p>
<p>whoa… i live maybe 30 minutes from rice, see it all the time because i volunteer at md anderson…</p>
<p>“Also, you might need to educate your parents on the college system in the USA - how it doesn’t boil down to the few Ivies versus failure, and how that even with hard work and great grades, etc. one isn’t assured an acceptance to an Ivy.”</p>
<p>that’s what i’m thinking. i mean, i just want to be a computer programmer. simple. heck, i could go to community college for that. i view undergrad as a chance to see people, learn about what i want to, have fun…</p>
<p>Any chance you can get your counselor to help you “sell” them on Pomona? Or some other person that they see as an authority? Sometimes information is believed more if the person (parent) hears it from someone they respect (teacher, counselor, some respected figure in the community, etc. etc.)</p>
<p>BTW - Pomona is #7 Liberal Arts college in the country, according to US News and World Report. While I personally don’t buy into the rankings, it might be a useful “authority” for you to use. </p>
<p>And Pomona is better known on the West Coast than the East.</p>
<p>Pomona is an excellent school. If you want to explore computer programming but also have a liberal arts education, it is ideal, since it will give you access to the offerings at Harvey Mudd (as well as the other Claremont Colleges). So you would have the best of both worlds: a small, nurturing LAC with the range of offerings of a mid-sized research university. Try to make your parents see it that way.</p>
<p>I would say that it is not about Ivies being better. It is about best value versus not o good value. Most top schools cost exactly the same. In the Ivies you get education + name. In Pomona you get only education for the same amount of money. There may be other places where you can get education without the name, but for much less money. That’s your father’s point. And it is a WISE point. He sees Pomona as not a good value for his money. To some extent I can understand him, I’ll not pay full tuition n a second tier private university having a decent state school as an option. I love my daughter, but we didn’t inherit these money, we work for them.
What to do? Try to explain that Pomona is a TOP school with a NAME. That it’s a good value. Another option is to make a deal that your father pays less for Pomona than he would pay for any of the Ivies. It may be better to negotiate after you have both letters - you father will see that you really love Pomona</p>
<p>Most immigrants have only heard of schools with graduate programs: Often, that’s how they get here in the first place. My husband, an immigrant, didn’t know what an LAC was and had never heard of any of them until our son was ready to apply. Once he started researching our higher educational system, he quickly realized that the personal attention, small class sizes, research opportunities and general focus on undergraduates that you get at the LACs is worth more than a brand name. </p>
<p>As a Stanford grad myself (low these many years ago), I can assure you that the faculty were focused on their graduate students, their research and on maintaining their reputations. Intro classes were sometimes huge and grad students carried most of the grading load. We used to joke that being named “teacher of the year” was the kiss of death for a prof-they were generally denied tenure the following year. Pomona will provide a better educational experience, even if the name is less well known-you’ll just have to educate your parents on this point. (And yes, my kids are going to LACs because I’ve been advised the the experience at most Ivies today is no different from my experience at Stanford.)</p>
<p>"Apply to all of them, as well as Pomona, and if you get rejected from everywhere better than Pomona, they’ll change their views. "
OP, these days, with the fierce competition for acceptance at top colleges, IT IS A REALLY BAD IDEA to only apply to reaches, and the Ivy’s as well as top lac’s like Pomona are all reaches.
If you want to be assured you WILL have a college to go to, BE SURE you apply to some safeties. There is No guarantee that you can get into any top ranked college just because you apply to a bunch of therm.</p>
<p>inconspicuous, your post reminds me a similar argument in my household. I can certainly relate to your parents. Like citymom said, it’s really which one has more ‘value’. In my mind. If we have to pay the full tuition we’d rather pay the first tier colleges.</p>
<p>My kid applied a few EAs as his ‘first choice’ love schools. One of them we consider is his ‘match/safty’ school but less ‘brand’ name (and honestly I think they charge rediculus high, more than HYPSM), he kept lobby us how he loves the school (even he had never visited!) did all things duckie11 sugested…we are almost convinced. Fortunately(sounds like a cold heart mom?), the adcom messed up his application(long story) for us, he got deffered from that school (what a dissmay couple of days, it broken my heart to see him so upset). Then he got accepted EA by another far more selective college (which I happen to think money worth for the field he wanted to study)…But still we hope he stays near home, insist he at least finish his lined up RDs(a few ivies), just so when spring comes he could have more options. I think its reasonable for parents who have to pay full tuition ask their kid at least ‘TRY’. His top choice has been changed several times through out the application process, who knows which school will be his top choice when spring comes…finally we reached the agreement(he is now working on his RD apps) apply first, see what comes in spring…</p>
<p>I agree with the one above said just apply whatever ivy your parents want and the ones you love. Time is running out, apply all, leave options open. After Jan 1st, do whatever duckie11 suggested if pomano is still your top choice…As a parent I know deep down I know as long as he happy with his choice, I will pay for him (don’t tell your dad though).</p>