Help with difficult parents

Parents Forum
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<p>Sorry for invading your board, parents. :) This is probably going to turn into a ramble.</p>

<p>My mom, who loves me dearly and has wonderful intentions, doesn’t know anything about college admissions but thinks she does. She’s under the impression that if you don’t go to an Ivy and the like / Williams, Colgate, Vassar, or Wellesley, your diploma is a piece of toilet paper that will get you nowhere. She’s also opposed to the idea of me going away for any place other than Stanford (which I have never expressed any interest in). Since I’m interested in Carleton and Oberlin, it’s a bit of a problem. I’m going to apply to schools on the east coast, and if I do go away it’s not to get away from her, but she doesn’t seem to understand that. It doesn’t help that she has told me numerous times how there is nothing in the Midwest and that it’s like “another planet.”</p>

<p>The fact of the matter is that I’ll be paying and 18 by that point, so there’s really nothing she can do to stop me, wherever I go. I really don’t want it to come to that, though. I’ve tried to explain to her that there are other colleges out there, but she’s told me repeatedly that the ones I listed above get you a ticket to “anything you want.” Seriously, she told me that with a Yale art history degree you could be a curator at the Met. At 22. Conversations about college usually end up with a speech by her about how I could study literature at Cornell and be a reporter and I’ll Thank Her One Day. The thing is that she wanted to study in London when she was younger, and that Oberlin is the exact culture she would have loved.</p>

<p>Is there a different way that I should be approaching this? Should I show her rankings? Beg her to come with me to different places, just to see? I thought that as parents you would be able to see things from her point of view better than I can. Thanks in advance!</p>

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<p>Look for statistics showing average starting salaries of graduates at different colleges. And, since she is so insistent, tell her that if she covers it all you will go to an Ivy if you get in. </p>

<p>I have friends who had a lot of pressure to attend certain schools or obtain certain degrees. They sabotaged applications to places they didn’t want to attend to get a denial letter to show mom or dad.</p>

<p>You might also ask you guidance counselor to talk with her.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the reply! I’ll definitely look for a list of salaries. But there’s no way she and my dad (he takes a hands-off approach) could cover it, as low as our EFC is probably going to be. I have a twin sister, so it’s a lot of money at one time.</p>

<p>I don’t think I could sabotage an application. What if I got rejected by every school that I actually wanted to go to? I’m too much of a worrier.</p>

<p>And I might do that, thank you. :)</p>

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<p>She’s under the impression that if you don’t go to an Ivy and the like / Williams, Colgate, Vassar, or Wellesley, your diploma is a piece of toilet paper that will get you nowhere.</p>

<p>LOLOLOLOL…</p>

<p>Take your mom down to the nearest large group of doctors’ offices. She will find many, many very successful and skilled physicians that didn’t go to an elite undergrad school and maybe not an elite med school, either. Were their diplomas like a piece of toilet paper that got them nowhere?</p>

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<p>You say that you’ll be paying for college. How will you be paying. Just remember that a low EFC does not mean that you’ll pay nothing for college. Many colleges do not meet demonstrated need.</p>

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<p>Tell your Mom that Carleton has one of the best science programs in the country. The last time I went to a meeting of the American Astronomical Society, there was a lunch get-together for professional Ph.D. astronomers who attended Carleton as they are now working all over the nation and world. I personally know of an Oberlin graduate who is now a rocket scientist at JPL. Science-wise, these schools rate right up there with the schools which impress her, even if they don’t have the graduate school cachet of the Ivies.</p>

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<p>You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. So my response is geared toward that impression.</p>

<p>You are in that twilight between childhood and adulthood. Your mom’s blessing and approval still matters greatly to you. Understandable, with one foot still in your childhood. At some point, though, you are going to have to break away, and make decisions - even mistakes - on your own. This may be that time. You don’t need to convince your mom that this is what’s right for you. You only need to convince your mom of your certainty that this is what’s right for you. </p>

<p>From my participation on this forum for a while now, I can tell you for sure that f you were wrong in your views about college, people on this forum would not hesitate to tell you so. You’re not wrong. </p>

<p>Follow your heart. Because she loves you, hopefully sooner than later, she will follow you on your journey. And you will be that much closer to the relationship you will have with her when you are both adults.</p>

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<p>Find a respectful voice to tell her that you have checked in on a parent’s forum (invite her to read here too!) and that many parents are shocked at how different things are now than 25 years ago. </p>

<p>Some changes:</p>

<p>1) Buying power is different. Students used to earn their way through college by working part time. It would take a job that pays $20 an hour to buy what minimum wage bought (college tuition wise) about 1980. </p>

<p>2) Programs have developed. No longer are there just a handful of collegiate powerhouses. Now there are hundreds of strong programs and lots of “boutique” programs. </p>

<p>3) Students have changed. Today’s kids are more diverse and more worldly no matter where in the world they are. (Look at golf. It was a huge big deal when I was a kid that a Hispanic guy named Lee Trevino made it as a pro golfer. No one would have guessed a black/Thai guy would succeed in that sport. Heck, no one even knew there was such a thing as an Asian/black kid). </p>

<p>4) Competition is much more stiff. Many, many Harvard and Yale grads will tell you that they got in with a reasonable GPA thirty years ago but know they would never, ever be competitive in today’s 4.0 plus tons of EC’s sort of world. Remind her (or have counselor remind her) that it is wise to apply to an assortment of schools. </p>

<p>5) You never know what the popular choice is any given year. One year Cornell had a huge bump in applicants. Why Cornell? Why that year? Admissions officers would love to know! Whatever the reason, that year they turned away kids they normally would have accepted. It is smart of you to have some alternatives in case everyone is making the same choices you are. </p>

<p>It is fine and mature to negotiate too. Tell her to pick one school. Have Dad pick one. You pick two. Apply to all four with the best application you can put together. Agree that you two will not discuss anything more until those four applications are finished. (Make her agree to that or you won’t do her one choice!). Once all four are done, then you know how hard applying is and you can decide if you want to do more or not. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>I should have written “no one in the golf world knew”</p>

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<p>YES her and then do what you want.</p>

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<p>My feeling is that it’s really not ethical to sabotage your applications, and while I would never say never, it shouldn’t be considered except under really extreme circumstances. You would have a hard time living with yourself if you did it, I think.</p>

<p>A friend of mine whose twins applied this year made a deal with her son (her daughter was accepted early and got great finaid, so no negotiations needed for her). He needed to apply to a few schools that he wasn’t thrilled about but that were potentially very affordable (either great need-based aid or great merit aid), and then he could apply to his wish list. She is pretty strapped financially, so he understands that there is a ceiling to what she can afford to spend. </p>

<p>I recommend that you sit down with her and your guidance counselor and and come up with a list of reaches, matches, safeties that include at least 2-3 schools from her wish list and 2-3 of your top picks. I’m assuming that you’re a junior, so you have a year before you have to make a decision. You never know what will happen - one of her picks may become a favorite of yours for some reason, or she may start to get excited about one of your top choices.</p>

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<p>You need to explain to your mom that the top schools reject kids with perfect stats every year, so you’ll have to apply to a variety of schools.</p>

<p>Since your EFC will likely be lowish (since you have a twin), you’ll need to apply to a variety of reach, match, and safety schools that will be affordable. Some elite schools are very good about meeting need with no or small loans. Many match and safety schools don’t meet need, but some will give large merit scholarships. </p>

<p>What are your stats?</p>

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<p>Well, if Mom is paying do thankful for that. Agree to apply to some of her schools, some of yours. Your essays will shine best at the schools where you fit the best, and that will likely make acceptance odds better.</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>I think the OP says that parents won’t be paying. I think the OP says that she will be paying.</p>

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<p>Did your mom and dad go to college in the US? And if so, where?</p>

<p>You need to find out where it is that she gets the idea that there are only a handful of “real” colleges and universities in the US from. The notions that she is expressing are not unusual for immigrant (and particularly Asian immigrant) parents, and among certain elites (and would-be elites) in the US. However, they are truly unusual within the general US population where the vast majority of parents send their children to local community colleges and in-state public universities. If your parents aren’t immigrants, and have never been to college themselves, and know few people who did go to college, I suppose that it would be possible for them to somehow develop the idea that only certain colleges were “real”. </p>

<p>Perhaps if you could find some professionals working in the career field(s) that you think you might work in one day, you could ask them where they studied. This would give you better information for your parents along the lines of “Ms. X is doing Y and she graduated from Big State U” and “Mr. W is doing V and he graduated from Never Ever Heard of it LAC.”</p>

<p>Wishing you all the best.</p>

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<p>Here are two articles that might help: “Who Needs Harvard?”/Time Magazine and “The Disadvantages of an Elite Education”/American Scholar (Scroll down for links). Read them first and then decide if it makes sense for you to share them with your mom. In the least they provide some interesting facts to help support your cause and make for interesting reading. </p>

<p>You sound like you have a really good head on your shoulders and care for and respect your mom’s opinion; and your mom, even if perhaps misguided, clearly is acting out of wanting what’s best for you…in short, those two factors being the case, I think you will work it out.</p>

<p>Good luck. </p>

<p>Who Needs Harvard? (Time Magazine, 2006)
[Who</a> Needs Harvard? - TIME](<a href=“http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1226150-1,00.html]Who”>http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1226150-1,00.html)
Suggests that there are a number of excellent schools out there, many of which are better fit for students than Ivies, etc. (Reminiscent of L. Pope’s book about colleges that changed lives (sorry, can’t remember exact title). Has useful statistics. </p>

<p>The Disadvantages of an Elite Education (American Scholar 2008)
[The</a> Disadvantages of an Elite Education: an article by William Deresiewicz about how universities should exist to make minds, not careers | The American Scholar](<a href=“http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite-education/]The”>The American Scholar: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education - <a href='https://theamericanscholar.org/author/william-deresiewicz/'>William Deresiewicz</a>)
This second one is more of a critique of elitism in US education…but many interesting points to think about.</p>

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<p>Get the book “Harvard Schmarvard” by Jay Mathews and show it to your mother. The reports of where many famous, influential, rich, etc. people went to school will be of particular interest.</p>

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<p>Visit websites of famous Ivy league professional schools: Harvard law and medicine come to mind, but those are just examples. There you can find the undergraduate schools that current students attended. Its an eye opener.</p>

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<p>One think for sure to keep in mind, that if your mom is paying, you have no leverage to change her opinion about anything related to college, it is pretty much cut in stone. Some parents are flexible and some are not and nothing could be done about it, except for ultimate veto power that you obtain if you decides to pay yourself for your college education.</p>

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<p>Wow, thanks for all the replies! Cue list-y response: </p>

<p>@ mom2collegekids: I know that and you know that, by try telling her that. :slight_smile: Just today my GC said that they don’t give out GPAs until senior year, but I had straight As freshman year, all As sophomore year except for a B+ in my first AP (5 on the test) and so far this year it’s all As with honors/ 3 APs. I’m the secretary of Model UN and a member of the Gay-Straight Alliance, but that’s all. =/ I’ve worked time at Border’s since I turned 16 and I tutor.</p>

<p>@ prefect: I don’t think that I’ll be paying nothing, I know the chances are very high that I’ll have to get a loan. </p>

<p>@ astrodeb: Haha, if only I wanted to work in science. But I know their humanities departments are very strong, too. It’s very cool that those grads are doing such amazing things!</p>

<p>@ laxtaxi: “You only need to convince your mom of your certainty that this is what’s right for you.” That’s fantastic advice, thank you!</p>

<p>@ Olymon: If only she wasn’t completely paranoid about any sort of public networking online. I might just end up negotiating in the end.</p>

<p>@ stalkermama: Haha, the only problem with that is getting her to take me on college visits, but it’s a skilled that I’ve already mastered.</p>

<p>@ MarinMom: She does like (or has heard of and respects) schools that I like, too, so I’ll probably do that. I definitely understand about the costs, I’ve got the application for a grant to help pay for a Model UN conference sitting right next to me.</p>

<p>@ colorad_mom: She’s not, though, but if she was I would definitely take her opinions into consideration. It’s not my money, after all. </p>

<p>@ happymomof1: Yes: Manhattan College and Mercy College. She is indeed an immigrant, she moved here from Cuba when she was ten. My dad isn’t and isn’t nearly as emotional about the whole process as she is; he said doesn’t care if I to UConn to save money but she shot it down. The smartest people I’ve ever met went to state schools, so I’ll look into that. </p>

<p>@ mom111: I’ve actually read the second article, thanks for the idea!</p>

<p>@ lisa58: She actually works at a bookstore, so I’ll tell her to look into it. The problem is that my sister and I have actually told her about people who do great things without going to an elite school, but she insists that they are exceptions to the rule.</p>

<p>@ starbright: Thank you, I’ll definitely look those up.</p>

<p>@ MiamiDAP: I agree, but she isn’t. It wouldn’t be right to take her money without listening to what she wants done with it.</p>